Moses Brown

[tstorey_97]

I was trying to figure out why Presti included Brown in the trade. (I posted this on another thread)

OKC has - Aleksej Pokusevski 7' - 208 pounds

They are high on this young/skinny Russian center (who can shoot threes) and thus the other skinny kid from NYC (Brown) gets traded to Boston.

Brown was All NBA G- league first team
And selected to G - League all defensive team

I watch some claws G - league, but it isn't much...I will say that if a player crushes it in G- league (Tremont Waters was G-League MVP) it doesn't mean a great deal except for this...at least he crushed it.

Brown - G-league (2020-21) per game stats
GP 14
Min 26.4
PTS 18.5
FG% 54.9
FT% 61
TRB 13.5
TOV 2.4
BLK 1.7

Brown NBA OK per game stats (2020/21)
GP 43
Min 21
PTS 8.6
FG% 54.5
FT% 61.9
TRB 8.9
TOV 1
BLK 1.1

Robert was not much when he started his career in Boston and now he's a potential star. Hopefully they can help Brown develop his NBA game and get some 7'2" minutes off the bench.

[jambr380]

Robert Williams is listed at 6'-8" on his ESPN profile.  Yes, he plays a "big" 6'-8" but that is still 6" less than Moses Brown who is listed at 7'-2".  I also agree with other comments that length is not the only important thing for an NBA center but come on, 7'-2" is way better than 6'-8".

I don't understand why OKC would give him up.  They may well know a lot more about his limitations than any of us but he does not seem like the kind of asset a rebuilding, start from scratch team like OKC would give up.

I would guess that we are going to try to trade Thompson to free up even more money but I am not sure where we can send him.  Maybe GSW?  Don't see how the $$$ would work though.  Is there a "Ideas to trade Thompson" thread?

I don't think they gave him up necessarily, they just wanted the 1st round pick more.  And I think they probably wanted the 1st round pick more because I think they intend to dump Walker off on someone and believe they may need to include a 1st to do it (depending on the trade).

Thinking this through, if they are going to use the Celtics pick to dump Kemba on the Knicks (for example), then they really don't end up with anything from this trade.  They would have been better off to just stretch Horford, keep Moses Brown, and move on (plus or minus some second round picks).

We'll see how this works out with Walker and what they end up doing with the pick but as it stands, they are going to end up paying Walker about $30M more than it would have cost to just cut and stretch Horford.  Is it worth $30M to "upgrade" from Moses Brown to the 16th pick?

The only logical thing is that they must feel they can get something for Kemba Walker rather than just dumping him, and figured they couldn't get anything for Al Horford.  If not, this trades nets them nothing.

If they are able to save $73M by including our 1st to dump Kemba on NYK, then I would say that is absolutely worth Moses Brown. If they are able to dump Kemba while giving up nothing, or even getting a pick, then I would say that is gross mismanagement on the part of Stevens/Cs management. My guess is they wait until after the season and trade his expiring contract for one that is even worse and pick up another asset.

[Walker Wiggle]

The problem with how we tend to talk about M Brown mirrors how we talk about other young players: we assume what we see now is what we'll get in the future.

This player is 21 years old and has played just 52 games in the NBA. Don't focus right now on what he can't do. For now, just focus on the progress he's made thus far, his physical tools, and his personality/eagerness to get better. I can't speak to the last of those three, but the first two look pretty good to me.

Speaking of which, consider the age and total games played of the other young players on our roster:

Romeo Langford: 21yo / 50 games
Aaron Nesmith: 21yo / 46 games
Grant Williams: 22yo / 132 games
Robert Williams: 23yo / 113 games
Payton Pritchard: 23yo / 66 games

These players are not finished products. They are very, very strongly likely to improve with time.

[Moranis]

Robert Williams is listed at 6'-8" on his ESPN profile.  Yes, he plays a "big" 6'-8" but that is still 6" less than Moses Brown who is listed at 7'-2".  I also agree with other comments that length is not the only important thing for an NBA center but come on, 7'-2" is way better than 6'-8".

I don't understand why OKC would give him up.  They may well know a lot more about his limitations than any of us but he does not seem like the kind of asset a rebuilding, start from scratch team like OKC would give up.

I would guess that we are going to try to trade Thompson to free up even more money but I am not sure where we can send him.  Maybe GSW?  Don't see how the $$$ would work though.  Is there a "Ideas to trade Thompson" thread?

I don't think they gave him up necessarily, they just wanted the 1st round pick more.  And I think they probably wanted the 1st round pick more because I think they intend to dump Walker off on someone and believe they may need to include a 1st to do it (depending on the trade).

Thinking this through, if they are going to use the Celtics pick to dump Kemba on the Knicks (for example), then they really don't end up with anything from this trade.  They would have been better off to just stretch Horford, keep Moses Brown, and move on (plus or minus some second round picks).

We'll see how this works out with Walker and what they end up doing with the pick but as it stands, they are going to end up paying Walker about $30M more than it would have cost to just cut and stretch Horford.  Is it worth $30M to "upgrade" from Moses Brown to the 16th pick?

The only logical thing is that they must feel they can get something for Kemba Walker rather than just dumping him, and figured they couldn't get anything for Al Horford.  If not, this trades nets them nothing.

They get out of a massive contract that they don't have to pay anything for on a player they have no need of.  That is a huge value for any team, but especially a small market.  Moses Brown is worth giving up if it means you don't have to pay Horford 45 million dollars (or Kemba like 70 million). 

They certainly don't need more draft picks, especially mid 1st round picks. 

[#1P4P]

Over/Under 1.5 times Brad asked for Lu Dort instead of Moses Brown?

Moses is 21, 7’2 245 with a 7’3.5 wingspan and 9’3 standing reach, has a good motor, moves well for his size, nice touch around the basket, clean injury history, is 2 years into his professional development with one NBA season under his belt, and signed for 3 more years for less than $2M per year.

TimeLord is in the last season of his contract before RFA and will be expensive to re-sign, if he stays healthy averaging more than 25 MPG. Moses will be insurance, if he matches or exceeds TimeLord’s development, we’ll seem Rob on the trading block.

[W8ting2McHale]

Over/Under 1.5 times Brad asked for Lu Dort instead of Moses Brown?

Moses is 21, 7’2 245 with a 7’3.5 wingspan and 9’3 standing reach, has a good motor, moves well for his size, nice touch around the basket, clean injury history, is 2 years into his professional development with one NBA season under his belt, and signed for 3 more years for less than $2M per year.

TimeLord is in the last season of his contract before RFA and will be expensive to re-sign, if he stays healthy averaging more than 25 MPG. Moses will be insurance, if he matches or exceeds TimeLord’s development, we’ll seem Rob on the trading block.

In the current NBA you still need a small ball center. IF Moses even develops into a starter, Rob Williams will still have a job here.

Moses is taking Luke Kornet’s place. Wagner and Kornet were given a shot because we needed height, but neither panned out. Kornet might have gotten a 2nd chance as an outside the paint-break in case of emergency guy off the bench, but that ship has sailed.

Brad is kicking tires. Hopefully Moses sticks. I was hoping for Jakob Poetl or Christian Woods the past 2 years. Maybe Moses can be that here?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Robert Williams is listed at 6'-8" on his ESPN profile.  Yes, he plays a "big" 6'-8" but that is still 6" less than Moses Brown who is listed at 7'-2".  I also agree with other comments that length is not the only important thing for an NBA center but come on, 7'-2" is way better than 6'-8".

I don't understand why OKC would give him up.  They may well know a lot more about his limitations than any of us but he does not seem like the kind of asset a rebuilding, start from scratch team like OKC would give up.

I would guess that we are going to try to trade Thompson to free up even more money but I am not sure where we can send him.  Maybe GSW?  Don't see how the $$$ would work though.  Is there a "Ideas to trade Thompson" thread?

I don't think they gave him up necessarily, they just wanted the 1st round pick more.  And I think they probably wanted the 1st round pick more because I think they intend to dump Walker off on someone and believe they may need to include a 1st to do it (depending on the trade).

Thinking this through, if they are going to use the Celtics pick to dump Kemba on the Knicks (for example), then they really don't end up with anything from this trade.  They would have been better off to just stretch Horford, keep Moses Brown, and move on (plus or minus some second round picks).

We'll see how this works out with Walker and what they end up doing with the pick but as it stands, they are going to end up paying Walker about $30M more than it would have cost to just cut and stretch Horford.  Is it worth $30M to "upgrade" from Moses Brown to the 16th pick?

The only logical thing is that they must feel they can get something for Kemba Walker rather than just dumping him, and figured they couldn't get anything for Al Horford.  If not, this trades nets them nothing.

They get out of a massive contract that they don't have to pay anything for on a player they have no need of.  That is a huge value for any team, but especially a small market.  Moses Brown is worth giving up if it means you don't have to pay Horford 45 million dollars (or Kemba like 70 million). 

They certainly don't need more draft picks, especially mid 1st round picks.

Much as you say, in general Kemba + Pick has more future value in particular for a team that doesn't care to compete. Al Horford + Brown gives the Celtics more present value, that's all that it comes down to.

[Somebody]

I still think Timelord is the solution at center.
Hopefully Timelord stays healthy. 
Glad to have insurance though

6'8 doesn't fill me with confidence at Center.

Cautiously optimistic about Brown.

Dray and Bam did ok. Also, height is a little misleading. Standing reach is more important - some players (like Rob) have long arms and short necks. His standing reach is reported as 9’4” or 9’5” - above average for an NBA center.

Average reach: http://www.draftexpress.com/average-measurements-by-position/2017/NBA+Draft+Combine/all/60/

P3 video that includes RW’s spider chart. 80% in standing reach for centers, 100% for leaping ability. https://mobile.twitter.com/p3sportscience/status/1009124980523597825?lang=en (h/t hoop vortex)

Rob is a unique player - aside from his hops, he’s got long arms and steadily improving court awareness. If we knew he would be durable I’d have zero concerns about that spot.

Height and length aren't the only things that are important for the centre position - Wes Unseld was 6'5.5 barefoot and ended up as an HoF centre thanks to his BBIQ, awareness and strength.

Unseld also played in the 70's, which is the weakest decade in the sport's history and when numbers were still be inflated by high possessions and poor shooting.  I mean he led the league in rebounding in 75 with 14.8 rpg, but his TRB% was only 18.6.  For a comparison, Capela just led the league at 14.3, but his TRB% was 26.1.

I mean it was weak in the earlier part of the decade because expansion caused teams to thin out overall, but the early 70s still had a bunch of great centres in Wilt, Kareem, Cowens, Hayes, Unseld, Thurmond, Reed, Lanier, etc, and Unseld still did well during the latter part of the decade where the league got stronger.

As for rebounding rates, I don't think they were a huge problem - top rebounding rates were in the high teens/early 20s all the way throughout the 80s and no one would say that era was weak.

[Moranis]

I still think Timelord is the solution at center.
Hopefully Timelord stays healthy. 
Glad to have insurance though

6'8 doesn't fill me with confidence at Center.

Cautiously optimistic about Brown.

Dray and Bam did ok. Also, height is a little misleading. Standing reach is more important - some players (like Rob) have long arms and short necks. His standing reach is reported as 9’4” or 9’5” - above average for an NBA center.

Average reach: http://www.draftexpress.com/average-measurements-by-position/2017/NBA+Draft+Combine/all/60/

P3 video that includes RW’s spider chart. 80% in standing reach for centers, 100% for leaping ability. https://mobile.twitter.com/p3sportscience/status/1009124980523597825?lang=en (h/t hoop vortex)

Rob is a unique player - aside from his hops, he’s got long arms and steadily improving court awareness. If we knew he would be durable I’d have zero concerns about that spot.

Height and length aren't the only things that are important for the centre position - Wes Unseld was 6'5.5 barefoot and ended up as an HoF centre thanks to his BBIQ, awareness and strength.

Unseld also played in the 70's, which is the weakest decade in the sport's history and when numbers were still be inflated by high possessions and poor shooting.  I mean he led the league in rebounding in 75 with 14.8 rpg, but his TRB% was only 18.6.  For a comparison, Capela just led the league at 14.3, but his TRB% was 26.1.

I mean it was weak in the earlier part of the decade because expansion caused teams to thin out overall, but the early 70s still had a bunch of great centres in Wilt, Kareem, Cowens, Hayes, Unseld, Thurmond, Reed, Lanier, etc, and Unseld still did well during the latter part of the decade where the league got stronger.

As for rebounding rates, I don't think they were a huge problem - top rebounding rates were in the high teens/early 20s all the way throughout the 80s and no one would say that era was weak.

The late 70's was also super weak.  There is a reason that Seattle and Washington were in back to back finals and Portland also won a title (with always injured Walton and a bunch of crap that also was all basically on rookie contracts). 

As for rebounding rates, it is relevant because Unseld is basically only in the HOF because of his rebounding.  I mean he averaged 10.8 ppg for his career and was only above 10 ppg 6 times.  He made 5 all star team and had just 1 All NBA appearance (happened to be his rookie year when he inexplicably won MVP).  He is in the HOF because of his rookie year and his solid rebounding. 

[gouki88]

Just saw that Brown averages 15PPG and 16RPG in games where he plays 30+ minutes. Nice

[Rikibellevie]

Just saw that Brown averages 15PPG and 16RPG in games where he plays 30+ minutes. Nice

Yes, but I still don't understand why they prefered the 16 pick over him... OK for Poku, but they could play with 2 young bigs, esp with the interrogation with Poku stength and the fact he could more be a 4 than a 5...

[gouki88]

Just saw that Brown averages 15PPG and 16RPG in games where he plays 30+ minutes. Nice

Yes, but I still don't understand why they prefered the 16 pick over him... OK for Poku, but they could play with 2 young bigs, esp with the interrogation with Poku stength and the fact he could more be a 4 than a 5...

Teams will always prefer first round picks. They ooze with "potential", and it gives OKC full control over who they select. They didn't draft Moses Brown, and likely view him as a bench big long-term - a role that Tony Bradley can play for them

[Sophomore]

Just saw that Brown averages 15PPG and 16RPG in games where he plays 30+ minutes. Nice

Yes, but I still don't understand why they prefered the 16 pick over him... OK for Poku, but they could play with 2 young bigs, esp with the interrogation with Poku stength and the fact he could more be a 4 than a 5...

Teams will always prefer first round picks. They ooze with "potential", and it gives OKC full control over who they select. They didn't draft Moses Brown, and likely view him as a bench big long-term - a role that Tony Bradley can play for them

If they thought Moses Brown had potential, they would have given us someone else. We got Brown because OKC gave him a long look and they aren’t impressed.

[gouki88]

Just saw that Brown averages 15PPG and 16RPG in games where he plays 30+ minutes. Nice

Yes, but I still don't understand why they prefered the 16 pick over him... OK for Poku, but they could play with 2 young bigs, esp with the interrogation with Poku stength and the fact he could more be a 4 than a 5...

Teams will always prefer first round picks. They ooze with "potential", and it gives OKC full control over who they select. They didn't draft Moses Brown, and likely view him as a bench big long-term - a role that Tony Bradley can play for them

If they thought Moses Brown had potential, they would have given us someone else. We got Brown because OKC gave him a long look and they aren’t impressed.

How do you know that? Who else on OKC's roster could we realistically have even asked for? There's no way Dort nor Bazely would have been available, and Brown is a better prospect than Roby and Bradley.

[Sophomore]

Just saw that Brown averages 15PPG and 16RPG in games where he plays 30+ minutes. Nice

Yes, but I still don't understand why they prefered the 16 pick over him... OK for Poku, but they could play with 2 young bigs, esp with the interrogation with Poku stength and the fact he could more be a 4 than a 5...

Teams will always prefer first round picks. They ooze with "potential", and it gives OKC full control over who they select. They didn't draft Moses Brown, and likely view him as a bench big long-term - a role that Tony Bradley can play for them

If they thought Moses Brown had potential, they would have given us someone else. We got Brown because OKC gave him a long look and they aren’t impressed.

How do you know that? Who else on OKC's roster could we realistically have even asked for? There's no way Dort nor Bazely would have been available, and Brown is a better prospect than Roby and Bradley.

We had to give OKC a 1st to take Kemba’s salary. They threw in a player to make the salaries work.

As you say, that was never going to be any of the young players they value (Dort, Bazely). Boston didn’t have leverage. We didn’t get to choose a guy we wanted or that OKC valued and would only give up for value in return. Brown is a guy that *might* have been drafted this year, deep in the 20s or in the second round as a long shot likely future bench guy.

Maybe, at best, we got our choice from among the pu-pu platter of players OKC didn’t want.