Author Topic: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season  (Read 4344 times)

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Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #75 on: October 10, 2020, 02:32:07 PM »

Online PhoSita

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Tatum is already at a point where he'd be in the MVP conversation if the Celts won 55-60 games and got the 1 seed
And that would be narrative-driven instead of being a true reflection of his ability.


Dude the mvp race is always narrative based.

Based on the history of the award the best guess you could make at an "objective" criteria for MVP is "the best offensive player on a high seeded team with a narrative that media people find compelling"
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 02:37:16 PM by PhoSita »
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Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #76 on: October 10, 2020, 03:28:07 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Sign Boogie Cousins.

I mean, why not?
Because he’s washed up and coming off crippling injuries.

You wouldn't want to take a chance that he becomes healthy?

It's not like we are offering him a max deal. Two years in a row he was willing to take as low as the Tax-Payer MLE.

We offer him the TPMLE, and be part of our core, as long as he can stay healthy, that's as enticing an offer as any that he will get.
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Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2020, 03:32:38 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Sign Boogie Cousins.

I mean, why not?
Because he’s washed up and coming off crippling injuries.

You wouldn't want to take a chance that he becomes healthy?

It's not like we are offering him a max deal. Two years in a row he was willing to take as low as the Tax-Payer MLE.

We offer him the TPMLE, and be part of our core, as long as he can stay healthy, that's as enticing an offer as any that he will get.

And if he goes down, get him a backup center on the cheap as well lol. No more Vincent Porier or Tacko Fall (if he's just gonna sit there and warm the bench).

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2020, 06:02:24 PM »

Online PhoSita

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I had enough of obnoxious personalities in 2019. Not interested in adding a malcontent. Especially not one who is likely to have a significant disparity between how he sees himself and how capable he actually is at this point in his career.
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Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2020, 06:13:24 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Sign Boogie Cousins.

I mean, why not?
Because he’s washed up and coming off crippling injuries.

You wouldn't want to take a chance that he becomes healthy?

It's not like we are offering him a max deal. Two years in a row he was willing to take as low as the Tax-Payer MLE.

We offer him the TPMLE, and be part of our core, as long as he can stay healthy, that's as enticing an offer as any that he will get.

And if he goes down, get him a backup center on the cheap as well lol. No more Vincent Porier or Tacko Fall (if he's just gonna sit there and warm the bench).

Poirier is about as likely to contribute to winning as Cousins, and he’s a lot more entertaining on Twitter.

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2020, 06:17:24 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Sign Boogie Cousins.

I mean, why not?
Because he’s washed up and coming off crippling injuries.

You wouldn't want to take a chance that he becomes healthy?

It's not like we are offering him a max deal. Two years in a row he was willing to take as low as the Tax-Payer MLE.

We offer him the TPMLE, and be part of our core, as long as he can stay healthy, that's as enticing an offer as any that he will get.

And if he goes down, get him a backup center on the cheap as well lol. No more Vincent Porier or Tacko Fall (if he's just gonna sit there and warm the bench).

Poirier is about as likely to contribute to winning as Cousins, and he’s a lot more entertaining on Twitter.
Incredibly harsh and untrue. Even a broken down Boogie in Golden State was averaging 16/8/3 in 25MPG. His defence was terrible, but so is Kanter's - still payed him $5m.

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #81 on: October 10, 2020, 07:19:10 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Sign Boogie Cousins.

I mean, why not?
Because he’s washed up and coming off crippling injuries.

You wouldn't want to take a chance that he becomes healthy?

It's not like we are offering him a max deal. Two years in a row he was willing to take as low as the Tax-Payer MLE.

We offer him the TPMLE, and be part of our core, as long as he can stay healthy, that's as enticing an offer as any that he will get.

And if he goes down, get him a backup center on the cheap as well lol. No more Vincent Porier or Tacko Fall (if he's just gonna sit there and warm the bench).

Poirier is about as likely to contribute to winning as Cousins, and he’s a lot more entertaining on Twitter.
Incredibly harsh and untrue. Even a broken down Boogie in Golden State was averaging 16/8/3 in 25MPG. His defence was terrible, but so is Kanter's - still payed him $5m.
Ok. Yes. This was an exaggerated take. But also true that it seems incredibly unlikely he’ll be a useful player. After that 30-game run with the GSW that you mention, he tore his quad. He came back for six games in the playoffs and was terrible. Probably wasn’t ready, but either way he was bad and he and the Warriors parted ways. Then he tore his ACL. All three injuries are to his left leg: Achilles, torn quad, ACL. I guess he hasn’t injured his hip yet, but that’s three links in the kinetic chain. He was listed before his injuries at 270. Maybe you think he’ll come back; I think that’s very unlikely.

If he was known as a great character guy, an example for our young stars, you might sell me on spending a roster spot on to have him on the end of the bench. Maybe. If he clears medical. More likely, he’d be a bad influence. There was no market for him before he went to GSW. Gotta be a reason.

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #82 on: October 10, 2020, 07:23:25 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Another way to put it is - I’d rather have a reliable body for practice who will play hard and not rock the team - someone content with that role - than an unhappy former all star who ‘s extremely unlikely to find his old form.

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #83 on: October 10, 2020, 10:01:52 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Sign Boogie Cousins.

I mean, why not?
Because he’s washed up and coming off crippling injuries.
For a vet-min it's pretty high reward low risk. If he's even half as good as he was at GS then he's basically as good as Kanter (better scorer and passer, worse rebounder) and for next to nothing
There is no reward. Kanter is a good teammate. Yes he has limitations but they are not like Boogies. Cousins hasn’t been relevant for almost 3 years now. He’s had three pretty significant and crippling injuries. He was never a great defensive player. He certainly won’t be after 3 awful injuries. I guess I just don’t see the fascination with this player form a personality and from a physical standpoint at this point.

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #84 on: October 11, 2020, 12:13:14 AM »

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Tatum is already at a point where he'd be in the MVP conversation if the Celts won 55-60 games and got the 1 seed
And that would be narrative-driven instead of being a true reflection of his ability.
Dude the mvp race is always narrative based.

Based on the history of the award the best guess you could make at an "objective" criteria for MVP is "the best offensive player on a high seeded team with a narrative that media people find compelling"
Which serves to strengthen my argument that NBA awards are really poor at evaluating a player's ability, especially MVPs :laugh:. Tatum being in the conversation for the award, barring a Kevin Garnett exception where there is revisionist history going on with the massive lift to his teams in Minnesota where such awards can be used to push back against narrative-driven arguments about the league's perception of him back then, should have no bearing on what should be thought of him as a player or you'll get the 2020 Clippers all over again (FWIW I do think that they were title contenders and they crapped the bed in the WCSF, but people expecting Kawhi to make them unbeatable because he was a great scorer on a title team last year were coming off a narrative-driven high).

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #85 on: October 11, 2020, 12:18:09 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Tatum is already at a point where he'd be in the MVP conversation if the Celts won 55-60 games and got the 1 seed
And that would be narrative-driven instead of being a true reflection of his ability.
Dude the mvp race is always narrative based.

Based on the history of the award the best guess you could make at an "objective" criteria for MVP is "the best offensive player on a high seeded team with a narrative that media people find compelling"
Which serves to strengthen my argument that NBA awards are really poor at evaluating a player's ability, especially MVPs :laugh:. Tatum being in the conversation for the award should have no bearing on what should be thought of him as a player or you'll get the 2020 Clippers all over again (FWIW I do think that they were title contenders and they crapped the bed in the WCSF, but people expecting Kawhi to make them unbeatable because he was a great scorer on a title team last year were coming off a narrative-driven high).
I honestly think the narrative-driven high regarding LouWill and Montrezl tricked me more than Kawhi. As far as I'm concerned he held up his end of the bargain. Once again lifted his game in the playoffs.

Their two 6MOTYs though... Well, they were not good. They combined for 23PPG, yikes

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #86 on: October 11, 2020, 12:21:39 AM »

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Tatum is already at a point where he'd be in the MVP conversation if the Celts won 55-60 games and got the 1 seed
And that would be narrative-driven instead of being a true reflection of his ability.
Dude the mvp race is always narrative based.

Based on the history of the award the best guess you could make at an "objective" criteria for MVP is "the best offensive player on a high seeded team with a narrative that media people find compelling"
Which serves to strengthen my argument that NBA awards are really poor at evaluating a player's ability, especially MVPs :laugh:. Tatum being in the conversation for the award should have no bearing on what should be thought of him as a player or you'll get the 2020 Clippers all over again (FWIW I do think that they were title contenders and they crapped the bed in the WCSF, but people expecting Kawhi to make them unbeatable because he was a great scorer on a title team last year were coming off a narrative-driven high).
I honestly think the narrative-driven high regarding LouWill and Montrezl tricked me more than Kawhi. As far as I'm concerned he held up his end of the bargain. Once again lifted his game in the playoffs.

Their two 6MOTYs though... Well, they were not good. They combined for 23PPG, yikes
Kawhi had another outlier jump this season (massive leap in playmaking) so he was fantastic this season, but most people were focusing on how he'd drop 40 every game to carry the Clippers to a title ala Toronto, which was madness to me because 2019 Kawhi Leonard really wasn't that Jordan-esque superstar that everyone deified him to be.

But yeah both of the Clippers' 6MOTY candidates collapsed come playoff time.

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #87 on: October 11, 2020, 10:07:28 AM »

Offline LilRip

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Kemba-JT-JB. Keep these guys and figure it out from there.

Hayward is who I’d be looking to ship out. He’s highly serviceable and would really help a team that needs perimeter help. I think he can still be a #2 or 3 guy for a team that already has a best player.

While I think Hayward fits here, I think it’s more of a case of “talented players know how to play with each other” rather than he’s an ideal fit. And since we have to deal with the economics of salary caps and luxury taxes, you have to give up strengths in some areas to shore up other areas of your team. I think even if we lose Hayward, we’re still dominant on the perimeter with our 3 main guys.

My top targets this offseason would be:
1) talented high IQ big
- I think there are many bigs that fit the bill but their less-than-marquee status would probably leave many on here unhappy. Ive seen names like Ibaka, Tristan Thompson, LMA and to me, these seem like pretty good fits with our team (provided Hayward is the centerpiece. Not Kemba!). I’d throw in other names like Marc Gasol and Drummond as other interesting options.

2) shooter who can move off the ball
- this could be an SG or a PF. He doesn’t need to be a playmaker or off the dribble creator but he needs to be lights out. Duncan Robinson showed us how much of an impact a shooter can have by just sprinting from one spot to the next. This will open up things for our 3 main guys. 

3) veteran with deep playoff experience, ideally a former champ
- I would replace Vincent Poirier with this guy. I don’t know who it is but I think a veteran locker room presence that is more safe than Wanamaker would be welcome. Idk who. Andrew Bogut?

———
Getting these guys would have to be a mix of trade and FA (I haven’t had time to check the FA pool). As for what happens to Smart and Theis? I’d move them to the bench and that fixes the bench problem, imo.

- LilRip

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #88 on: October 11, 2020, 11:37:49 AM »

Offline wiley

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Kemba-JT-JB. Keep these guys and figure it out from there.

Hayward is who I’d be looking to ship out. He’s highly serviceable and would really help a team that needs perimeter help. I think he can still be a #2 or 3 guy for a team that already has a best player.

While I think Hayward fits here, I think it’s more of a case of “talented players know how to play with each other” rather than he’s an ideal fit. And since we have to deal with the economics of salary caps and luxury taxes, you have to give up strengths in some areas to shore up other areas of your team. I think even if we lose Hayward, we’re still dominant on the perimeter with our 3 main guys.

My top targets this offseason would be:
1) talented high IQ big
- I think there are many bigs that fit the bill but their less-than-marquee status would probably leave many on here unhappy. Ive seen names like Ibaka, Tristan Thompson, LMA and to me, these seem like pretty good fits with our team (provided Hayward is the centerpiece. Not Kemba!). I’d throw in other names like Marc Gasol and Drummond as other interesting options.

2) shooter who can move off the ball
- this could be an SG or a PF. He doesn’t need to be a playmaker or off the dribble creator but he needs to be lights out. Duncan Robinson showed us how much of an impact a shooter can have by just sprinting from one spot to the next. This will open up things for our 3 main guys. 

3) veteran with deep playoff experience, ideally a former champ
- I would replace Vincent Poirier with this guy. I don’t know who it is but I think a veteran locker room presence that is more safe than Wanamaker would be welcome. Idk who. Andrew Bogut?

———
Getting these guys would have to be a mix of trade and FA (I haven’t had time to check the FA pool). As for what happens to Smart and Theis? I’d move them to the bench and that fixes the bench problem, imo.

I agree...though I really enjoy watching a healthy Hayward play on the Celtics.

This is probably not a factor at all, but with as bad as Hayward's luck has been since joining the C's, there's a bit of a pressure build up.  The fans want to see him succeed, he wants to see him succeed, the contract wants to be justified, etc, etc.  If he's traded to a team that he and his family would like (Indy), I can see a benefit to ridding himself of that pressure that is only growing in Boston.  Imagine if he has a great coming year but is injured again in the playoffs (okay, don't imagine).  An injury on a new team is not as devastating as another injury with Boston.  Ok these guys are pros and I"m talking crap...but overall I liked your post.

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #89 on: October 11, 2020, 11:53:52 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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My ideal off-season would be focused mostly around people getting 100% healthy and roster stability.

I'm not opposed to Danny doing some consolidation of picks/assets to move up a little in the draft and reduce the roster crunch, but I don't want a major roster upheaval.  This team has experienced major upheaval every season in recent years and if the Toronto series could teach anything is that there is real benefit to a team getting a chance to play more than one season together.   That is what made many of the classic Celtic title teams so good.   They knew each other intimately on the court.

The young guys are going to keep improving and and with more experience and maturity and playing better as a team I think this team could be very, very good next year.
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