Hayward Out 4 Weeks (Per Shams)

[gouki88]

Man this place can be negative. People saying we’re toast against Philly (who we’ve beaten with even more undermanned squads), people writing off Hayward’s future, even some saying his skill-set (unique to our team) is redundant? Jeesh.

It really does suck for Hayward. Absolutely cursed. It seems like we’re never able to have all 3 of he, Brown & Smart healthy, sometimes it’s even 2/3 of those are injured. That being said, I really hope we bring him back next season with an extension. 4/75 is perfectly reasonable for me

[keevsnick]

I genuinely think that everyone, including the Celtic fans, underestimate the Cs depth.

We still have three legitimate 20 ppg scorers (two of them all-stars) on this team with a defensive all-NBA player and several quality rotation bigs. On top of that, we've got several youngsters eager to prove they belong that can contribute in meaningful ways in Grant Williams and Romeo Langford. For all the flack he gets around here, Brad Wanamaker is a capable shot creator with good defensive versatility.

I mean that says all you need right there. its not clear either of those guys is even playable in playoff basketball. MAYBE they are, but now they kind of need to be.

The Celtics depth is not good. Basically you are transferring 34 minutes of Hayward to somebody(s) who likely wasn't going to be in our playoff rotation much at all. Its not ideal.

I guess I disagree. Grant Williams made a couple plays last night that were key. CBS relies on young players with something to prove in big moments all the time. He did with Brown and Rozier and Semi and Tatum.

Even without them, the Celtics are at least 8 solid players deep with Smart, Walker, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Rob Williams, Kanter, and Wanamaker.

Those last three are all highly questionable. Williams is young and VERY unproven. Kanter has matchup issues. Wanaamker is a low end playoff player. Like if you have to include those three to get to your 8 man rotation your rotation is not very good.

That doesn't mean  it can't be , or that it wont work. Maybe somebody on the bench is better than they've shown so far. Maybe Brad really is a genius and maximizes everybody with their perfect matchups, maybe somebody plays over their head for 20 games.  But there is rela disaster potential for the c's bench.

I'm hopeful it works itself out. I think there's a chance Grant Williams or Semi can be 3D enough to make t work. But they have to show me before I believe it.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I genuinely think that everyone, including the Celtic fans, underestimate the Cs depth.

We still have three legitimate 20 ppg scorers (two of them all-stars) on this team with a defensive all-NBA player and several quality rotation bigs. On top of that, we've got several youngsters eager to prove they belong that can contribute in meaningful ways in Grant Williams and Romeo Langford. For all the flack he gets around here, Brad Wanamaker is a capable shot creator with good defensive versatility.

I mean that says all you need right there. its not clear either of those guys is even playable in playoff basketball. MAYBE they are, but now they kind of need to be.

The Celtics depth is not good. Basically you are transferring 34 minutes of Hayward to somebody(s) who likely wasn't going to be in our playoff rotation much at all. Its not ideal.

I guess I disagree. Grant Williams made a couple plays last night that were key. CBS relies on young players with something to prove in big moments all the time. He did with Brown and Rozier and Semi and Tatum.

Even without them, the Celtics are at least 8 solid players deep with Smart, Walker, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Rob Williams, Kanter, and Wanamaker.

Those last three are all highly questionable. Williams is young and VERY unproven. Kanter has matchup issues. Wanaamker is a low end playoff player. Like if you have to include those three to get to your 8 man rotation your rotation is not very good.

That doesn't mean  it can't be , or that it wont work. Maybe somebody on the bench is better than they've shown so far. Maybe Brad really is a genius and maximizes everybody with their perfect matchups, maybe somebody plays over their head for 20 games.  But there is rela disaster potential for the c's bench.

I'm hopeful it works itself out. I think there's a chance Grant Williams or Semi can be 3D enough to make t work. But they have to show me before I believe it.

Sure, but I think you are being more critical of them than they actually are bad. I recognize they are somewhat questionable, but that's why they are bench players.

Kanter is a year removed from an awesome playoffs with the Blazers both defensively and offensively. He's on our bench. He has matchup issues, but he's solid.

Wannamaker is a better player than he's given credit for around here. He'd be the best point guard on the Sixers right now. I think he's as good as a player like Reggie Jackson for the Clippers (even though Reggie Jackson's reputation has far outweighed Wannamaker).

Rob Williams is a definite question mark, but he has the potential to mark the game in a way that very few players can with his unique abilities. That question mark has a very high ceiling (edit). Because he's a question mark, he's a bench guy, but he's a very good player to have coming off the bench because of potential to absolutely shift the game.

[PhoSita]

To me, a terrible contract is one like Mark Blount, who the moment he signs it, he just mails it in, and collects coupons.  That is a regrettable contract.  But fluke injuries are unpredicatable, out of a player's control, and out of the control of management.

I think you're taking it as a personal indictment of Hayward.

That's not what I'm saying at all.  It's not his fault and it doesn't mean he didn't hold up his end of the bargain or something.

It just means that what the team (and we as fans) have gotten out of signing Hayward is so much less than what we expected at the time.


I know that it's a huge disappointment for Hayward, just as it is for the team and for us fans.

I don't think it's disrespectful to talk about it in those terms.  I would feel differently if this were a situation where the nature of the injury was more severe / scary.  E.g. Jeff Green heart issue or Gordon's first ankle injury.

[PhoSita]

I genuinely think that everyone, including the Celtic fans, underestimate the Cs depth.

We still have three legitimate 20 ppg scorers (two of them all-stars) on this team with a defensive all-NBA player and several quality rotation bigs. On top of that, we've got several youngsters eager to prove they belong that can contribute in meaningful ways in Grant Williams and Romeo Langford. For all the flack he gets around here, Brad Wanamaker is a capable shot creator with good defensive versatility.

The top end talent is very good.  One All-NBA guy, another All-Star caliber wing, and a couple of veterans who are borderline All-Star talents.

After that you have a borderline starter (Theis) who looks very good in certain matchups and overwhelmed in others.

Then you have a very good sixth man who is more than good enough to be a starter -- Smart.


Beyond those six guys, is there anybody on the roster who would definitely crack the rotation on other good teams?


Wanamaker is a guy I prefer to see out there for 10-15 minutes.  He's fine, but in a must-win game he's the kind of guy I would expect to get benched.  He's a 9th or 10th man.

Kanter is great at killing mediocre bench players.  He is not a guy you want to lean on at all in a playoff series.  Far too easy to exploit.  He's a deeply flawed player who ideally should be getting minutes during the regular season to help the team eat up crappy opponents and then get benched in the playoffs.


Semi is what he is, which is a third string caliber 3/4.  He has his moments and if he plays in a lineup with plenty of scoring his limitations don't stand out too much.  He really isn't a guy you want to lean on for many minutes or any kind of offensive creation.  He has no court vision, can't handle against pressure, and his shot comes and goes.

Grant has more skill and upside than Semi but has very similar limitations right now, except that he's a much more reluctant and inconsistent shooter.  I wanted to love Grant from the beginning.  He's a smart player who keeps the ball moving and hustles.  He's really good at staying in front of people.  He's just too small for a guy whose skillset suggests he should be playing the 4/5.  He's too easy for big men to score over and he can't take advantage of his size except against smaller guards.  Grant needs to become a deadeye shooter in order to have a larger role than he does now.


Ideally I wouldnt' want either Grant or Semi in the rotation in a must win game.

Javonte Green has similar limitations to Grant and Semi.  Physically he overlaps more with where Smart is likely to play defensively.  I think if he gets time the opponent is going to help way off him and dare him to shoot.  That will cause problems for the offense.

Timelord looks awesome at times and lost at other times.  He's go the physical talent to be an above average starter one day.  Right now he's trick or treat.  Just as likely to make a great highlight play as he is to make a dumb mistake that lets the opponent get an easy 2-3 points.  Not a guy you can afford to give a significant role in a tight playoff game.


Romeo is as raw as they come.  You don't want to have to play raw rookies who are perpetually injured and have barely seen the floor in an important playoff game.


Carsen has yet to look like an NBA player.

Waters is redundant with Wanamaker but has higher upside. Still, not enough NBA level seasoning to trust.

Poirier has yet to have a single stretch of five minutes where he looks like he belongs at the NBA level.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I think this significantly hurts Boston's chances this season—given Gordon's absence, as well as the negative ripple effect it has on the team's thin bench—but I already was of the opinion that the Celtics couldn't win the East this season, maybe not even get to the East finals.

And if they go and do something "heroic," like make it to Game 6 or 7 of the East finals before falling, I'm going to be even more annoyed, because I'll be thinking, "Dang, if only they'd had Hayward ..."

Of course, I'd love to see someone unexpectedly step up—Ojeleye, G.Will, RobWill, Langford—but that's probably hoping for too much. Ojeleye, IMO, has been more negative than positive lately; ditto for Grant; and Langford's playing injured (plus he's really raw). RobWill is the one I can reasonably see making a significant positive contribution, but he's no Hayward. I think Tatum, Brown, and Walker are gonna have to combine for at least 70 every game.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Going 6 deep with starting caliber players after you lose a starter is pretty good depth.

After that, you are looking for guys who can significantly change the game in key situations or offer you something the rest of your starters can't. Timelord and Kanter do that just fine.

You normally are only 8 deep in the playoffs anyone. Wanamaker can serve a rotational guy for a while. He's been waiting his entire career for this opportunity.

[PhoSita]

I think this significantly hurts Boston's chances this season—given Gordon's absence, as well as the negative ripple effect it has on the team's thin bench—but I already was of the opinion that the Celtics couldn't win the East this season, maybe not even get to the East finals.

And if they go and do something "heroic," like make it to Game 6 or 7 of the East finals before falling, I'm going to be even more annoyed, because I'll be thinking, "Dang, if only they'd had Hayward ..."

I'm already kind of feeling that way, in the sense that it seems clear to me that this team is a reliable bench away from being able to seriously compete this season.  The complete lack of a bench has been a flaw with this team from before the season.  It's such an obvious issue that it feels like it was intentional. 

It made sense to me at the start of the season given that they were in a bit of transition phase after Kyrie left. But by mid-season it was clear that Tatum and Brown had made a leap.  So it's frustrating that they didn't make any moves to give Brad some more reliable supporting players to work with.


On the one hand it seems like it's safe to say that Jay & Jay will be here and able to compete for the foreseeable future.  Kemba should still be good next year.  Smart is locked up for a few more years.  They ought to be in a position to go deep next year, too, if they can add some bench pieces.

But you never know.  You only get so many years where your core is good enough to make a deep run.  It's frustrating to feel like one of those shots is wasted because the roster isn't constructed to allow the team the depth and flexibility it needs to have a real chance.

[PhoSita]

Going 6 deep with starting caliber players after you lose a starter is pretty good depth.

After that, you are looking for guys who can significantly change the game in key situations or offer you something the rest of your starters can't. Timelord and Kanter do that just fine.

You normally are only 8 deep in the playoffs anyone. Wanamaker can serve a rotational guy for a while. He's been waiting his entire career for this opportunity.

The best teams can field a 8 or 9 man rotation without having to give significant minutes to guys who are severely flawed / easily exploited.

Teams that have a shot at the title are usually able to play multiple styles, as well, based on personnel.


I mean, look at the Bucks, Clippers, Raptors, or Heat.  All of those teams go 8-10 players deep with useful role players.  You can't tell me the Celts have anything like that.

[gouki88]

I genuinely think that everyone, including the Celtic fans, underestimate the Cs depth.

We still have three legitimate 20 ppg scorers (two of them all-stars) on this team with a defensive all-NBA player and several quality rotation bigs. On top of that, we've got several youngsters eager to prove they belong that can contribute in meaningful ways in Grant Williams and Romeo Langford. For all the flack he gets around here, Brad Wanamaker is a capable shot creator with good defensive versatility.

The top end talent is very good.  One All-NBA guy, another All-Star caliber wing, and a couple of veterans who are borderline All-Star talents.

After that you have a borderline starter (Theis) who looks very good in certain matchups and overwhelmed in others.

Then you have a very good sixth man who is more than good enough to be a starter -- Smart.


Beyond those six guys, is there anybody on the roster who would definitely crack the rotation on other good teams?


Wanamaker is a guy I prefer to see out there for 10-15 minutes.  He's fine, but in a must-win game he's the kind of guy I would expect to get benched.  He's a 9th or 10th man.

Kanter is great at killing mediocre bench players.  He is not a guy you want to lean on at all in a playoff series.  Far too easy to exploit.  He's a deeply flawed player who ideally should be getting minutes during the regular season to help the team eat up crappy opponents and then get benched in the playoffs.


Semi is what he is, which is a third string caliber 3/4.  He has his moments and if he plays in a lineup with plenty of scoring his limitations don't stand out too much.  He really isn't a guy you want to lean on for many minutes or any kind of offensive creation.  He has no court vision, can't handle against pressure, and his shot comes and goes.

Grant has more skill and upside than Semi but has very similar limitations right now, except that he's a much more reluctant and inconsistent shooter.  I wanted to love Grant from the beginning.  He's a smart player who keeps the ball moving and hustles.  He's really good at staying in front of people.  He's just too small for a guy whose skillset suggests he should be playing the 4/5.  He's too easy for big men to score over and he can't take advantage of his size except against smaller guards.  Grant needs to become a deadeye shooter in order to have a larger role than he does now.


Ideally I wouldnt' want either Grant or Semi in the rotation in a must win game.

Javonte Green has similar limitations to Grant and Semi.  Physically he overlaps more with where Smart is likely to play defensively.  I think if he gets time the opponent is going to help way off him and dare him to shoot.  That will cause problems for the offense.

Timelord looks awesome at times and lost at other times.  He's go the physical talent to be an above average starter one day.  Right now he's trick or treat.  Just as likely to make a great highlight play as he is to make a dumb mistake that lets the opponent get an easy 2-3 points.  Not a guy you can afford to give a significant role in a tight playoff game.


Romeo is as raw as they come.  You don't want to have to play raw rookies who are perpetually injured and have barely seen the floor in an important playoff game.


Carsen has yet to look like an NBA player.

Waters is redundant with Wanamaker but has higher upside. Still, not enough NBA level seasoning to trust.

Poirier has yet to have a single stretch of five minutes where he looks like he belongs at the NBA level.

I think Wanamaker, Kanter & Ojeleye have solid NBA level abilities. Romeo also seems like a legitimately capable wing defender at this level.

Kanter was the starting center on a Western Conference Finalist last season. Obviously they were undermanned, but to say he's near unplayable in the playoffs is false. I think he'd get minutes on Houston, OKC, Utah, Dallas, maybe the Clippers (him vs Zubac is a wash for me), Orlando, Indiana (with Sabonis out), and Brooklyn. That's about half the playoff teams around. He's perhaps the best offensive rebounder of this era, and his defensive issues can be masked.

Wanamaker is solid enough. Lacks awareness on defence, but given the star-studded nature of most guard rotations in the NBA I think he's great for a 10-15 minute effort. Now that Kemba's minutes restriction is no more we won't see too much of him, but he's still able to come in and do things. He's the all-time FT % leader!

Ojeleye is a decent enough shooter from 3 (38% on 2 attempts per game) and is a very versatile defender due to his athleticism and strength. No world beater, but again, reliable for 10-15 minutes.

Given that Jayson, Jaylen and now probably Smart will likely be at around 40MPG, and Kemba will likely be at around 35MPG, there's not a whole lot of minutes flying around for these guys anyway. A rotation of:

Kemba (35) / Wanamaker (13)
Smart (38) / Langford (10)
Brown (40) / Ojeleye (8 )
Tatum (40) / Grant (8 )
Theis (30) / Kanter (18 )

Isn't too bad. On some nights it'll be shorter, and on some longer. I'm not too worried about our depth at this stage.

[keevsnick]

I genuinely think that everyone, including the Celtic fans, underestimate the Cs depth.

We still have three legitimate 20 ppg scorers (two of them all-stars) on this team with a defensive all-NBA player and several quality rotation bigs. On top of that, we've got several youngsters eager to prove they belong that can contribute in meaningful ways in Grant Williams and Romeo Langford. For all the flack he gets around here, Brad Wanamaker is a capable shot creator with good defensive versatility.

The top end talent is very good.  One All-NBA guy, another All-Star caliber wing, and a couple of veterans who are borderline All-Star talents.

After that you have a borderline starter (Theis) who looks very good in certain matchups and overwhelmed in others.

Then you have a very good sixth man who is more than good enough to be a starter -- Smart.


Beyond those six guys, is there anybody on the roster who would definitely crack the rotation on other good teams?


Wanamaker is a guy I prefer to see out there for 10-15 minutes.  He's fine, but in a must-win game he's the kind of guy I would expect to get benched.  He's a 9th or 10th man.

Kanter is great at killing mediocre bench players.  He is not a guy you want to lean on at all in a playoff series.  Far too easy to exploit.  He's a deeply flawed player who ideally should be getting minutes during the regular season to help the team eat up crappy opponents and then get benched in the playoffs.


Semi is what he is, which is a third string caliber 3/4.  He has his moments and if he plays in a lineup with plenty of scoring his limitations don't stand out too much.  He really isn't a guy you want to lean on for many minutes or any kind of offensive creation.  He has no court vision, can't handle against pressure, and his shot comes and goes.

Grant has more skill and upside than Semi but has very similar limitations right now, except that he's a much more reluctant and inconsistent shooter.  I wanted to love Grant from the beginning.  He's a smart player who keeps the ball moving and hustles.  He's really good at staying in front of people.  He's just too small for a guy whose skillset suggests he should be playing the 4/5.  He's too easy for big men to score over and he can't take advantage of his size except against smaller guards.  Grant needs to become a deadeye shooter in order to have a larger role than he does now.


Ideally I wouldnt' want either Grant or Semi in the rotation in a must win game.

Javonte Green has similar limitations to Grant and Semi.  Physically he overlaps more with where Smart is likely to play defensively.  I think if he gets time the opponent is going to help way off him and dare him to shoot.  That will cause problems for the offense.

Timelord looks awesome at times and lost at other times.  He's go the physical talent to be an above average starter one day.  Right now he's trick or treat.  Just as likely to make a great highlight play as he is to make a dumb mistake that lets the opponent get an easy 2-3 points.  Not a guy you can afford to give a significant role in a tight playoff game.


Romeo is as raw as they come.  You don't want to have to play raw rookies who are perpetually injured and have barely seen the floor in an important playoff game.


Carsen has yet to look like an NBA player.

Waters is redundant with Wanamaker but has higher upside. Still, not enough NBA level seasoning to trust.

Poirier has yet to have a single stretch of five minutes where he looks like he belongs at the NBA level.

I think Wanamaker, Kanter & Ojeleye have solid NBA level abilities. Romeo also seems like a legitimately capable wing defender at this level.

Kanter was the starting center on a Western Conference Finalist last season. Obviously they were undermanned, but to say he's near unplayable in the playoffs is false. I think he'd get minutes on Houston, OKC, Utah, Dallas, maybe the Clippers (him vs Zubac is a wash for me), Orlando, Indiana (with Sabonis out), and Brooklyn. That's about half the playoff teams around. He's perhaps the best offensive rebounder of this era, and his defensive issues can be masked.

Wanamaker is solid enough. Lacks awareness on defence, but given the star-studded nature of most guard rotations in the NBA I think he's great for a 10-15 minute effort. Now that Kemba's minutes restriction is no more we won't see too much of him, but he's still able to come in and do things. He's the all-time FT % leader!

Ojeleye is a decent enough shooter from 3 (38% on 2 attempts per game) and is a very versatile defender due to his athleticism and strength. No world beater, but again, reliable for 10-15 minutes.

Given that Jayson, Jaylen and now probably Smart will likely be at around 40MPG, and Kemba will likely be at around 35MPG, there's not a whole lot of minutes flying around for these guys anyway. A rotation of:

Kemba (35) / Wanamaker (13)
Smart (38) / Langford (10)
Brown (40) / Ojeleye (
Tatum (40) / Grant (
Theis (30) / Kanter (18)

Isn't too bad. On some nights it'll be shorter, and on some longer. I'm not too worried about our depth at this stage.

I think you are underestimating the ability it takes to be a positive in a playoff series. Against the sixers it may not, probably wont matter since they are so dyssfunctional right now. But in a tough playoff series weakness get exposes. Kanters lack of ability to defend in space, Romeo's complete lack of shooting, RWIII's fouling and defensive mistakes. Ojeles lack of ability to do anything off the dribble, GW lack of size and rebounding. The Celtics have a lot of guys who do one or two things well, then have serious weaknesses. Those guys tend to get played off the floor in later round playoff series.

Now on the positive side most of these guys can defend, and some of them like Semi and Grant have shown the ability to shoot a little.  So really all they need is one of those guys to both defend like they can, and get hot for 20 games and let the stars take care of the creation. They at least have a multitude of options to throw at the wall. And Brad is a very good coach who I think can minimize the amount each guys weakness is exposed.

So I guess we'll see, we wont REALLY know if these guys can play in the playoffs untill they do or don't.

[gouki88]

I genuinely think that everyone, including the Celtic fans, underestimate the Cs depth.

We still have three legitimate 20 ppg scorers (two of them all-stars) on this team with a defensive all-NBA player and several quality rotation bigs. On top of that, we've got several youngsters eager to prove they belong that can contribute in meaningful ways in Grant Williams and Romeo Langford. For all the flack he gets around here, Brad Wanamaker is a capable shot creator with good defensive versatility.

The top end talent is very good.  One All-NBA guy, another All-Star caliber wing, and a couple of veterans who are borderline All-Star talents.

After that you have a borderline starter (Theis) who looks very good in certain matchups and overwhelmed in others.

Then you have a very good sixth man who is more than good enough to be a starter -- Smart.


Beyond those six guys, is there anybody on the roster who would definitely crack the rotation on other good teams?


Wanamaker is a guy I prefer to see out there for 10-15 minutes.  He's fine, but in a must-win game he's the kind of guy I would expect to get benched.  He's a 9th or 10th man.

Kanter is great at killing mediocre bench players.  He is not a guy you want to lean on at all in a playoff series.  Far too easy to exploit.  He's a deeply flawed player who ideally should be getting minutes during the regular season to help the team eat up crappy opponents and then get benched in the playoffs.


Semi is what he is, which is a third string caliber 3/4.  He has his moments and if he plays in a lineup with plenty of scoring his limitations don't stand out too much.  He really isn't a guy you want to lean on for many minutes or any kind of offensive creation.  He has no court vision, can't handle against pressure, and his shot comes and goes.

Grant has more skill and upside than Semi but has very similar limitations right now, except that he's a much more reluctant and inconsistent shooter.  I wanted to love Grant from the beginning.  He's a smart player who keeps the ball moving and hustles.  He's really good at staying in front of people.  He's just too small for a guy whose skillset suggests he should be playing the 4/5.  He's too easy for big men to score over and he can't take advantage of his size except against smaller guards.  Grant needs to become a deadeye shooter in order to have a larger role than he does now.


Ideally I wouldnt' want either Grant or Semi in the rotation in a must win game.

Javonte Green has similar limitations to Grant and Semi.  Physically he overlaps more with where Smart is likely to play defensively.  I think if he gets time the opponent is going to help way off him and dare him to shoot.  That will cause problems for the offense.

Timelord looks awesome at times and lost at other times.  He's go the physical talent to be an above average starter one day.  Right now he's trick or treat.  Just as likely to make a great highlight play as he is to make a dumb mistake that lets the opponent get an easy 2-3 points.  Not a guy you can afford to give a significant role in a tight playoff game.


Romeo is as raw as they come.  You don't want to have to play raw rookies who are perpetually injured and have barely seen the floor in an important playoff game.


Carsen has yet to look like an NBA player.

Waters is redundant with Wanamaker but has higher upside. Still, not enough NBA level seasoning to trust.

Poirier has yet to have a single stretch of five minutes where he looks like he belongs at the NBA level.

I think Wanamaker, Kanter & Ojeleye have solid NBA level abilities. Romeo also seems like a legitimately capable wing defender at this level.

Kanter was the starting center on a Western Conference Finalist last season. Obviously they were undermanned, but to say he's near unplayable in the playoffs is false. I think he'd get minutes on Houston, OKC, Utah, Dallas, maybe the Clippers (him vs Zubac is a wash for me), Orlando, Indiana (with Sabonis out), and Brooklyn. That's about half the playoff teams around. He's perhaps the best offensive rebounder of this era, and his defensive issues can be masked.

Wanamaker is solid enough. Lacks awareness on defence, but given the star-studded nature of most guard rotations in the NBA I think he's great for a 10-15 minute effort. Now that Kemba's minutes restriction is no more we won't see too much of him, but he's still able to come in and do things. He's the all-time FT % leader!

Ojeleye is a decent enough shooter from 3 (38% on 2 attempts per game) and is a very versatile defender due to his athleticism and strength. No world beater, but again, reliable for 10-15 minutes.

Given that Jayson, Jaylen and now probably Smart will likely be at around 40MPG, and Kemba will likely be at around 35MPG, there's not a whole lot of minutes flying around for these guys anyway. A rotation of:

Kemba (35) / Wanamaker (13)
Smart (38) / Langford (10)
Brown (40) / Ojeleye (
Tatum (40) / Grant (
Theis (30) / Kanter (18)

Isn't too bad. On some nights it'll be shorter, and on some longer. I'm not too worried about our depth at this stage.

I think you are underestimating the ability it takes to be a positive in a playoff series. Against the sixers it may not, probably wont matter since they are so dyssfunctional right now. But in a tough playoff series weakness get exposes. Kanters lack of ability to defend in space, Romeo's complete lack of shooting, RWIII's fouling and defensive mistakes. Ojeles lack of ability to do anything off the dribble, GW lack of size and rebounding. The Celtics have a lot of guys who do one or two things well, then have serious weaknesses. Those guys tend to get played off the floor in later round playoff series.

Now on the positive side most of their guys can defend, and some of them like Semi and Grant have shown the ability to shoot a little.  So really all they need is one of those guys to both defend like they can, and get hot for 20 games. They at east have a multitude of options to throw at the wall. And Brad is a very good coach who I think can minimize the amount each guys weakness is exposed.

I don't know about that. We've seen plenty of teams utilise players with glaring flaws in the playoffs, even championship teams. Guys like Looney, Nick Young, Ian Clark, Pat McCaw, Channing Frye, Matt Dellavedova, David Lee, Marco Bellinelli, Norris Cole, Udonis Haslem, DeShawn Stevenson, Brendan Haywood, Jordan Farmar and Glen Davis all get 8-15MPG on championship winning teams.
I'm very comfortable putting Kanter and Wanamaker in the same tier as those guys, maybe not, but he's not far off. They might not be 'positives', but they have roles and they stay within them.
It's more about whether or not Tatum and Brown can be good enough to lead a team to a chip. I think they can be this season, and I think it's a certainty in the future that they will be.

[ozgod]

Man this place can be negative. People saying we’re toast against Philly (who we’ve beaten with even more undermanned squads), people writing off Hayward’s future, even some saying his skill-set (unique to our team) is redundant? Jeesh.

It really does suck for Hayward. Absolutely cursed. It seems like we’re never able to have all 3 of he, Brown & Smart healthy, sometimes it’s even 2/3 of those are injured. That being said, I really hope we bring him back next season with an extension. 4/75 is perfectly reasonable for me

In a way the level of angst probably speaks to the esteem in which people here hold Gordon, in that his injury is seen as heralding the end of our team as a competitive entity. 

It's more about whether or not Tatum and Brown can be good enough to lead a team to a chip. I think they can be this season, and I think it's a certainty in the future that they will be.

No time like the present to find out

[hwangjini_1]

Sometimes it's just not meant to be.

Feels like that's how it is with Gordon and the Celts.

I bet he has a nice post-season run with some team at some point, but it feels like it won't be the Celts.

I mean, there's always next season.  I really have a hard time envisioning a realistic scenario where he is playing somewhere else next season.

Yes I expect him to be here next season. 

I think it's clear we can't depend on him to be available when the games matter, though.


Hopefully Danny can find a way to shore up the roster between this season and next so that the team can absorb a loss like this more easily.

I'm not surprised to see Hayward go out with an injury, at this point.  It's just tough to swallow when you consider that the team was already painfully shallow.

I hope you like shoring up the roster with that 14th pick lol

Yeah honestly I don't know how Danny will do it.  The team has no cap space coming and they've got another fist-full of mediocre draft picks.

i know. and since trades are now illegal in the nba there is nothing ainge can possibly do. woe is us. 

[PhoSita]

i know. and since trades are now illegal in the nba there is nothing ainge can possibly do. woe is us. 

Yup that's totally what I said.

Sheesh.