Hayward Out 4 Weeks (Per Shams)

[BitterJim]

Hayward will miss four weeks per Shams.

He's done.

No fault of his own, but has to be one of the worst signings in Celtics history.

Classy.

What does it have to do with class?  We can't acknowledge that a guy has fallen far short of what we all hoped he'd do here when we signed him?

It's not his fault, but I don't think there's any question that Hayward has been a huge disappointment, especially when you factor in the contract.


Most of the worst signings in the history of sports are due to injuries and other factors outside the players' control.

No the worst signing in Celtics history remains Mark Blount's contract extension. 

Not a player, but I'd still say Rick Pitino counts as the worst signing

[scaryjerry]

It'll be hard enough to beat Philly without Hayward, given how thin the Celts are.

Beating Toronto seems like a herculean task.

yep we are cooked for this year ...shot our load now ..we hvae no Bron type mega star to carry the team on their back drag us to the finals . 

At least we won ONE game in the playoffs . 

Danny might take the same attitude with him as Al ....he will have a limit to spending on somebody that old and injury prone.

Lol...we didn't have a bron type megastar before the Hayward injury either? Our closest bet would be tatum and last I checked he is just fine

[footey]

Hayward will miss four weeks per Shams.

He's done.

No fault of his own, but has to be one of the worst signings in Celtics history.

Classy.

What does it have to do with class?  We can't acknowledge that a guy has fallen far short of what we all hoped he'd do here when we signed him?

It's not his fault, but I don't think there's any question that Hayward has been a huge disappointment, especially when you factor in the contract.


Most of the worst signings in the history of sports are due to injuries and other factors outside the players' control.

Hayward when down with a horrific injury 5 minutes into his contract.  No fault of his own. He broke his hand earlier this season. No fault of his own.He gets a grade 3 ankle sprain. Through no fault of his own.  When healthy, he has been a very good player for us. At the time, it was considered a no brainer max contract (3 teams offered him the  max). 

And your first words, right after he injures himself, are that it is the worst contract ever signed?  I just find that poor taste for a Celtic fan to say that right after this guy, who has battled back through so much adversity, for that to be stated. 

I am probably more emotionally invested in these guys than you, and take it personally when you say something like that. 

To me, a terrible contract is one like Mark Blount, who the moment he signs it, he just mails it in, and collects coupons.  That is a regrettable contract.  But fluke injuries are unpredicatable, out of a player's control, and out of the control of management. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I genuinely think that everyone, including the Celtic fans, underestimate the Cs depth.

We still have three legitimate 20 ppg scorers (two of them all-stars) on this team with a defensive all-NBA player and several quality rotation bigs. On top of that, we've got several youngsters eager to prove they belong that can contribute in meaningful ways in Grant Williams and Romeo Langford. For all the flack he gets around here, Brad Wanamaker is a capable shot creator with good defensive versatility.

[footey]

I wish nothing more than the best for Gordon moving forward. I would be perfectly happy signing him to a reasonable extension, but even that extension will be an overpay. Who would Cs fans rather have moving forward - Smart or Hayward? Tough question, right? But even in the best scenario, Gordon will be making twice what Smart is now (and likely almost 3x if he picks up his option).

I think a good deal for Hayward would be $15-20 million per year.  I am certain he'll want much more than that.

When healthy he has shown he still has borderline All-Star level talent. 

But given how redundant his skillset is with the Jays and how often he isn't healthy and available, I would rather the team try to allocate resources elsewhere.

You mean with all that cap room we have?  How are you going to accomplish that?  We have Bird rights with Hayward. We have no cap room to sign anyone else.  Sign and trade? LOL.

Plus I disagree that his skill set is redundant.  Hayward is a much better play maker than JB or JT. He runs the dang offense when others want to isolate and play hero ball.  Everything is roses as long as Tatum hits incredible shots like last night.  I for one am hoping he continues to do so.  My concern is that when things break down, and they will, we lack an anchor to get us running the system offense, play more cohesively.  Marcus Smart can do that for a while, but he sometimes gets too emotional, and that is not what we need in those moments.  Kemba for all his gifts is not really a guy who creates plays for others.  We will miss Hayward. I for one think it will make getting past the 76ers very difficult.  And have zero hope vs. the Raptors should we get to the next round. 

[kraidstar]

My gut feeling is  If he can't come to a deal on an extension, Hayward will accept his player option amidst his health problems and try to have a "prove it" season next year for another max contract  here or elsewhere.

 As for this season I think we can beat the raptors with or without Gordon. We will have 3 of the four best players in the series.  This could be a nice opportunity for Williams and Romeo to get some experience for later in the playoffs.

 After the raptors we will need all hands on deck.

[Phantom255x]

My gut feeling is  If he can't come to a deal on an extension, Hayward will accept his player option amidst his health problems and try to have a "prove it" season next year for another max contract  here or elsewhere.

 As for this season I think we can beat the raptors with or without Gordon. We will have 3 of the four best players in the series.  This could be a nice opportunity for Williams and Romeo to get some experience for later in the playoffs.

 After the raptors we will need all hands on deck.

You're a lot more optimistic than I am. And I consider myself an optimistic person in general, but it's going to be really hard to beat Toronto without us at full strength. And no way we're beating the Bucks without Hayward (though they'd probably lose to the Bucks even with us at full strength anyways).

[keevsnick]

I wish nothing more than the best for Gordon moving forward. I would be perfectly happy signing him to a reasonable extension, but even that extension will be an overpay. Who would Cs fans rather have moving forward - Smart or Hayward? Tough question, right? But even in the best scenario, Gordon will be making twice what Smart is now (and likely almost 3x if he picks up his option).

I think a good deal for Hayward would be $15-20 million per year.  I am certain he'll want much more than that.

When healthy he has shown he still has borderline All-Star level talent. 

But given how redundant his skillset is with the Jays and how often he isn't healthy and available, I would rather the team try to allocate resources elsewhere.

You mean with all that cap room we have?  How are you going to accomplish that?  We have Bird rights with Hayward. We have no cap room to sign anyone else.  Sign and trade? LOL.

Plus I disagree that his skill set is redundant.  Hayward is a much better play maker than JB or JT. He runs the dang offense when others want to isolate and play hero ball.  Everything is roses as long as Tatum hits incredible shots like last night.  I for one am hoping he continues to do so.  My concern is that when things break down, and they will, we lack an anchor to get us running the system offense, play more cohesively.  Marcus Smart can do that for a while, but he sometimes gets too emotional, and that is not what we need in those moments.  Kemba for all his gifts is not really a guy who creates plays for others.  We will miss Hayward. I for one think it will make getting past the 76ers very difficult.  And have zero hope vs. the Raptors should we get to the next round.

Right now he is, but at some point if you want those guys to be the cornerstones going forward you need to get the ball in their hands as much as possible. And every possession Hayward has the ball is one Tatum and Brown don't. Up till now that's been fine, because as you say Hayward brought a skill in play-making that Tatum and Brown weren't as good at. But long term a far more ideal situation for the Celtics is Tatum and Brown get better at play-making and you slot in a 3+D guy next to them while using Hayward money to fill out your depth.

In short the only real silver lining here is we are about to see how much responsibility Tatum and Brown can take. Its sink or swim time.

[keevsnick]

I genuinely think that everyone, including the Celtic fans, underestimate the Cs depth.

We still have three legitimate 20 ppg scorers (two of them all-stars) on this team with a defensive all-NBA player and several quality rotation bigs. On top of that, we've got several youngsters eager to prove they belong that can contribute in meaningful ways in Grant Williams and Romeo Langford. For all the flack he gets around here, Brad Wanamaker is a capable shot creator with good defensive versatility.

I mean that says all you need right there. its not clear either of those guys is even playable in playoff basketball. MAYBE they are, but now they kind of need to be.

The Celtics depth is not good. Basically you are transferring 34 minutes of Hayward to somebody(s) who likely wasn't going to be in our playoff rotation much at all. Its not ideal.

[mef730]

Seem to be a lot of people ready to give up the year with the loss of Gordon Hayward, our fourth- best player.

It's strange, I seem to remember a team from a couple of years ago that went into the playoffs without either its best or second-best player and still got within a game of making it to the finals. Come to think of it, one of those players was Gordon Hayward.

The rookies stepped up, a back-up point guard played out of his mind (and later turned into Kemba Walker, making him the second-most important #12 in Boston history) and we were still only seven-deep.

Look, I'll be the first person to admit that we don't have any rookies with the potential of the Js, but if Terry freakin' Rozier went nuts, anyone could.

We've still got a lot of great basketball this year, or my name isn't Phil.

-Mike

[seancally]

I wish nothing more than the best for Gordon moving forward. I would be perfectly happy signing him to a reasonable extension, but even that extension will be an overpay. Who would Cs fans rather have moving forward - Smart or Hayward? Tough question, right? But even in the best scenario, Gordon will be making twice what Smart is now (and likely almost 3x if he picks up his option).

I think a good deal for Hayward would be $15-20 million per year.  I am certain he'll want much more than that.

When healthy he has shown he still has borderline All-Star level talent. 

But given how redundant his skillset is with the Jays and how often he isn't healthy and available, I would rather the team try to allocate resources elsewhere.

You mean with all that cap room we have?  How are you going to accomplish that?  We have Bird rights with Hayward. We have no cap room to sign anyone else.  Sign and trade? LOL.

Plus I disagree that his skill set is redundant.  Hayward is a much better play maker than JB or JT. He runs the dang offense when others want to isolate and play hero ball.  Everything is roses as long as Tatum hits incredible shots like last night.  I for one am hoping he continues to do so.  My concern is that when things break down, and they will, we lack an anchor to get us running the system offense, play more cohesively.  Marcus Smart can do that for a while, but he sometimes gets too emotional, and that is not what we need in those moments.  Kemba for all his gifts is not really a guy who creates plays for others.  We will miss Hayward. I for one think it will make getting past the 76ers very difficult.  And have zero hope vs. the Raptors should we get to the next round.

Right now he is, but at some point if you want those guys to be the cornerstones going forward you need to get the ball in their hands as much as possible. And every possession Hayward has the ball is one Tatum and Brown don't. Up till now that's been fine, because as you say Hayward brought a skill in play-making that Tatum and Brown weren't as good at. But long term a far more ideal situation for the Celtics is Tatum and Brown get better at play-making and you slot in a 3+D guy next to them while using Hayward money to fill out your depth.

In short the only real silver lining here is we are about to see how much responsibility Tatum and Brown can take. Its sink or swim time.

Hayward also isn’t exactly Paul Pierce, 2008 point-forward. He's a great ball-mover, makes good decisions, etc but he has been playmaker in the context of our balanced offense. Kemba can make plays, so can Tatum. Smart is an excellent playmaker.

Playoffs require tight rotations and a short bench. Alright, so tighten it up.

[Rikibellevie]

Seem to be a lot of people ready to give up the year with the loss of Gordon Hayward, our fourth- best player.

It's strange, I seem to remember a team from a couple of years ago that went into the playoffs without either its best or second-best player and still got within a game of making it to the finals. Come to think of it, one of those players was Gordon Hayward.

The rookies stepped up, a back-up point guard played out of his mind (and later turned into Kemba Walker, making him the second-most important #12 in Boston history) and we were still only seven-deep.

Look, I'll be the first person to admit that we don't have any rookies with the potential of the Js, but if Terry freakin' Rozier went nuts, anyone could.

We've still got a lot of great basketball this year, or my name isn't Phil.

-Mike

Totally agree with you. A lot of overeaction here.

It's sad for him and diminuate us for sure...  But we can also be a little more positiv :

_ Philly have lost their playmaker and all NBA defensor... We lost our 4 best player...
_Whatever we would have been ubderdog against Raptors. If they are 100% healthy they will be big favorite... But who knows they can also be hurt.
_ It will be, on a season where we prepare also the future, the moment to step up (or not but still an indicator) and show what they got for G Will, Langford or Ojeleye. Interesting for our future...
_ Smart will have a new role in playmaking, which could impact in a good way in some matchs
_ His value for a new contract is maybe deacrising a little (and if we need to pass on him, if he asks too much, I trust Danny for our future)
_ If we advance to ECF he will be there and frech to come from the bench

I don't say his injury is a good thing, and I also was disgusted when I saw the news (esp because it didn't looked so uggly first. But its sport, we still have one of the best 4 Guards and Wings on the playoff... So I will continue to believe. Even if I agree Raptors will be big time favorite if we pass 76ers

[Ogaju]

Seem to be a lot of people ready to give up the year with the loss of Gordon Hayward, our fourth- best player.

It's strange, I seem to remember a team from a couple of years ago that went into the playoffs without either its best or second-best player and still got within a game of making it to the finals. Come to think of it, one of those players was Gordon Hayward.

The rookies stepped up, a back-up point guard played out of his mind (and later turned into Kemba Walker, making him the second-most important #12 in Boston history) and we were still only seven-deep.

Look, I'll be the first person to admit that we don't have any rookies with the potential of the Js, but if Terry freakin' Rozier went nuts, anyone could.

We've still got a lot of great basketball this year, or my name isn't Phil.

-Mike

we  may not have rookies with the potential of the Js, but we have the Js growing into  and realizing their potential

[ozgod]

Wow, some serious wrist slitting going on in this thread     Reminds me of the wrist slitting that happened after he broke his ankle in game 1 of the season vs Cleveland in 2017. People giving up the season even before a game had been completed

I'm realistic about it. Injuries happen.  Philly have lost Simmons, so we should still be able to beat them even with Gordon out. Definitely going to make things harder but that's why you have a full roster and try to play them through the year. Most teams are missing players either due to injury or declined to play due to Covid. We'll see what the rest of them are made of. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I genuinely think that everyone, including the Celtic fans, underestimate the Cs depth.

We still have three legitimate 20 ppg scorers (two of them all-stars) on this team with a defensive all-NBA player and several quality rotation bigs. On top of that, we've got several youngsters eager to prove they belong that can contribute in meaningful ways in Grant Williams and Romeo Langford. For all the flack he gets around here, Brad Wanamaker is a capable shot creator with good defensive versatility.

I mean that says all you need right there. its not clear either of those guys is even playable in playoff basketball. MAYBE they are, but now they kind of need to be.

The Celtics depth is not good. Basically you are transferring 34 minutes of Hayward to somebody(s) who likely wasn't going to be in our playoff rotation much at all. Its not ideal.

I guess I disagree. Grant Williams made a couple plays last night that were key. CBS relies on young players with something to prove in big moments all the time. He did with Brown and Rozier and Semi and Tatum.

Even without them, the Celtics are at least 8 solid players deep with Smart, Walker, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Rob Williams, Kanter, and Wanamaker.