The Case Against a James Harden Trade

[nickagneta]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

I’ve been meaning to start a thread on this, and I haven’t because of laziness. What is up with all the Jayson Tatum criticism lately?

I don't get the Tatum hate either. I think it's probably due to a rabidly negative blogging fanbase that needs someone, anyone to blame, and are sick of calling out the usual suspects, so have now targeted Tatum.

Tatum and Brown are part of the solution, not the problem. At this point, this year(not every year the duo have played, but this year), they are equally important to the team. Losing either will seriously hurt this team.

The fanbase needs to be patient while these two guys figure out how to raise everyone else's game, and/or Ainge brings in some reliable, consistent vets to compliment them.

Tatum (and Brown) are young and need to be given a chance to grow, they are a great foundation to build upon.
But...they do have warts and there is nothing wrong w pointing them out and discussing them. I do have an issue w Tatum, one that he's had since he got here. Some years/games it's worse or better than others but to my eyes it's his biggest fault. He often stagnates the flow of the offense, ala Carmelo Anthony. The ball will be zipping around and it will stick on Tatum as he makes his in n out dribbles and sizes up his opponent. It freezes the offense, the ball and the players stop moving. I believe some posters call it "ball stopping". It's frustrating to watch. And though he has gotten better at creating shots for other players and getting assists, this "ball stopping" is a detriment to the team game.
BTW Tatum is the best current Celtic and the most important... Duh...

There is a difference between critiquing a player's game and some of the stuff being said about Tatum. Heck, one poster decided Tatum had to go in a trade.

[Moranis]

So Harden ended up costing - 4 first rounders + 4 swaps + Levert + (some bad contracts) ~~ 6 first round picks

Danny had 6 first round picks in 19 and 20 and nothing worth bragging to show for while Brooklyn has Harden.

To all that are saying Harden would cost Brown - how come Harden didn't cost Durant or Irving? I think Danny's priorities are off. He will  always be afraid to trade picks the way Brooklyn did.

Brown or Walker had to go out for salary purposes and obviously Houston would have no interest in Walker.  But to your point, if Boston could have found a landing spot for Walker and was willing to trade all those 1st rounders, then I do think they might have been able to keep Brown. 

So let's just say it was the Knicks taking Walker

Knicks - Walker
Boston - Harden, Burks, Bullock
Houston - Ntkilina, Payton, Nesmith, Langford, G. Williams, 1st's - 21, 23, 25, 27 - Swaps - 22, 24, 26

I think that package is at least similar to what the Rockets ended up with. 

So Boston post-trade would have been (with 1 roster spot open)
Starters - Harden, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Thompson
Playoff Rotation - Smart, Burks, R. Williams
Regular Season Rotation - Pritchard, Teague, Bullock, Ojeleye
Deep Bench - Edwards, Green, Waters, Fall

Now obviously to give up that many future picks you'd have to have buy-in from Harden, but I think that is something that could have worked and that team is clearly the best the team in the East if not all of basketball over the next couple of seasons.

[gouki88]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

I’ve been meaning to start a thread on this, and I haven’t because of laziness. What is up with all the Jayson Tatum criticism lately?

He's not averaging 30/10/5, so he sucks!

Seriously, it's insane. He made an All-NBA team at 21 ... and improved. People are rightfully mad at the team - blaming the best player is ludicrous.

[NKY fan]

So Harden ended up costing - 4 first rounders + 4 swaps + Levert + (some bad contracts) ~~ 6 first round picks

Danny had 6 first round picks in 19 and 20 and nothing worth bragging to show for while Brooklyn has Harden.

To all that are saying Harden would cost Brown - how come Harden didn't cost Durant or Irving? I think Danny's priorities are off. He will  always be afraid to trade picks the way Brooklyn did.

Brown or Walker had to go out for salary purposes and obviously Houston would have no interest in Walker.  But to your point, if Boston could have found a landing spot for Walker and was willing to trade all those 1st rounders, then I do think they might have been able to keep Brown. 

So let's just say it was the Knicks taking Walker

Knicks - Walker
Boston - Harden, Burks, Bullock
Houston - Ntkilina, Payton, Nesmith, Langford, G. Williams, 1st's - 21, 23, 25, 27 - Swaps - 22, 24, 26

I think that package is at least similar to what the Rockets ended up with. 

So Boston post-trade would have been (with 1 roster spot open)
Starters - Harden, Brown, Tatum, Theis, Thompson
Playoff Rotation - Smart, Burks, R. Williams
Regular Season Rotation - Pritchard, Teague, Bullock, Ojeleye
Deep Bench - Edwards, Green, Waters, Fall

Now obviously to give up that many future picks you'd have to have buy-in from Harden, but I think that is something that could have worked and that team is clearly the best the team in the East if not all of basketball over the next couple of seasons.

I don’t see Danny giving all that up. I would have done it lol

[PhoSita]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

I’ve been meaning to start a thread on this, and I haven’t because of laziness. What is up with all the Jayson Tatum criticism lately?

He's not averaging 30/10/5, so he sucks!

Seriously, it's insane. He made an All-NBA team at 21 ... and improved. People are rightfully mad at the team - blaming the best player is ludicrous.

It's similar to the Brad criticism --- when the team is doing badly and there isn't a satisfying explanation or solution for it, the easy answer is to blame the coach and/or the best player.

[gouki88]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

I’ve been meaning to start a thread on this, and I haven’t because of laziness. What is up with all the Jayson Tatum criticism lately?

He's not averaging 30/10/5, so he sucks!

Seriously, it's insane. He made an All-NBA team at 21 ... and improved. People are rightfully mad at the team - blaming the best player is ludicrous.

It's similar to the Brad criticism --- when the team is doing badly and there isn't a satisfying explanation or solution for it, the easy answer is to blame the coach and/or the best player.

In a way, but I do think there are more valid criticisms to be found of Brad given there are repeat patterns of behaviour he exhibits that, on paper, are detrimental to the team.