The Case Against a James Harden Trade

[Moranis]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

[Goldstar88]

I would have traded Brown then and still would trade Brown for Harden.  Harden is a difference maker.  He is a MVP in his prime.  He is everything this team is missing.

This team isn’t built to win now. Harden will be 32 this year, he’s 8 years older than Brown. A starting lineup of Smart, Kemba, Harden, Tatum, Theis is still not a championship caliber team.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

My eyes tell me Brown is our most effective player on both sides of the court. I know Brown had an off game against NO yesterday but memories have to span longer than one game.

[Moranis]

I would have traded Brown then and still would trade Brown for Harden.  Harden is a difference maker.  He is a MVP in his prime.  He is everything this team is missing.

This team isn’t built to win now. Harden will be 32 this year, he’s 8 years older than Brown. A starting lineup of Smart, Kemba, Harden, Tatum, Theis is still not a championship caliber team.

That would be the best team in the east.

[Moranis]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

My eyes tell me Brown is our most effective player on both sides of the court. I know Brown had an off game against NO yesterday but memories have to span longer than one game.

Tatum is better and more important than Brown and has been since the moment he stepped foot on the floor.  The team loses at an insane rate when Tatum doesn't play and actually wins at a higher rate when Brown doesn't play.  That has continued this year as well.  Tatum makes Boston go.  The team just needs him and basically always has.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

My eyes tell me Brown is our most effective player on both sides of the court. I know Brown had an off game against NO yesterday but memories have to span longer than one game.

Tatum is better and more important than Brown and has been since the moment he stepped foot on the floor.  The team loses at an insane rate when Tatum doesn't play and actually wins at a higher rate when Brown doesn't play.  That has continued this year as well.  Tatum makes Boston go.  The team just needs him and basically always has.

You’re confusing Brown and someone else. Probably Smart or Kemba.

[Moranis]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

My eyes tell me Brown is our most effective player on both sides of the court. I know Brown had an off game against NO yesterday but memories have to span longer than one game.

Tatum is better and more important than Brown and has been since the moment he stepped foot on the floor.  The team loses at an insane rate when Tatum doesn't play and actually wins at a higher rate when Brown doesn't play.  That has continued this year as well.  Tatum makes Boston go.  The team just needs him and basically always has.

You’re confusing Brown and someone else. Probably Smart or Kemba.

Nope.

Boston's record without Brown available / with Brown
17-18 season - 8-4 / 47-23
18-19 season - 8-0 / 41-33
19-20 season - 10-5 / 38-19
20-21 season - 1-1 / 14-14

So 27-10 without Brown or 72.97% and 140-89 with Brown or 61.14%

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

My eyes tell me Brown is our most effective player on both sides of the court. I know Brown had an off game against NO yesterday but memories have to span longer than one game.

Tatum is better and more important than Brown and has been since the moment he stepped foot on the floor.  The team loses at an insane rate when Tatum doesn't play and actually wins at a higher rate when Brown doesn't play.  That has continued this year as well.  Tatum makes Boston go.  The team just needs him and basically always has.

You’re confusing Brown and someone else. Probably Smart or Kemba.

Nope.

Boston's record without Brown available / with Brown
17-18 season - 8-4 / 47-23
18-19 season - 8-0 / 41-33
19-20 season - 10-5 / 38-19
20-21 season - 1-1 / 14-14

So 27-10 without Brown or 72.97% and 140-89 with Brown or 61.14%

Tiny sample size. Probably want to look at strength of schedule.

[gouki88]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Brown and his injury are pretty clearly problematic for this team. Far more than our 22 year-old All-NBA wing who has recovered pretty well from COVID.

[LilRip]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Yeeshk. How is Tatum the problem when he is pretty much the primary option opposing teams game plan for? Who else on this team constantly gets doubled like Tatum?

[Moranis]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

My eyes tell me Brown is our most effective player on both sides of the court. I know Brown had an off game against NO yesterday but memories have to span longer than one game.

Tatum is better and more important than Brown and has been since the moment he stepped foot on the floor.  The team loses at an insane rate when Tatum doesn't play and actually wins at a higher rate when Brown doesn't play.  That has continued this year as well.  Tatum makes Boston go.  The team just needs him and basically always has.

You’re confusing Brown and someone else. Probably Smart or Kemba.

Nope.

Boston's record without Brown available / with Brown
17-18 season - 8-4 / 47-23
18-19 season - 8-0 / 41-33
19-20 season - 10-5 / 38-19
20-21 season - 1-1 / 14-14

So 27-10 without Brown or 72.97% and 140-89 with Brown or 61.14%

Tiny sample size. Probably want to look at strength of schedule.

I have.  It isn't much different in either instance. 

[Roy H.]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

I’ve been meaning to start a thread on this, and I haven’t because of laziness. What is up with all the Jayson Tatum criticism lately?

[nickagneta]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

I’ve been meaning to start a thread on this, and I haven’t because of laziness. What is up with all the Jayson Tatum criticism lately?

I don't get the Tatum hate either. I think it's probably due to a rabidly negative blogging fanbase that needs someone, anyone to blame, and are sick of calling out the usual suspects, so have now targeted Tatum.

Tatum and Brown are part of the solution, not the problem. At this point, this year(not every year the duo have played, but this year), they are equally important to the team. Losing either will seriously hurt this team.

The fanbase needs to be patient while these two guys figure out how to raise everyone else's game, and/or Ainge brings in some reliable, consistent vets to compliment them.

[NKY fan]

So Harden ended up costing - 4 first rounders + 4 swaps + Levert + (some bad contracts) ~~ 6 first round picks

Danny had 6 first round picks in 19 and 20 and nothing worth bragging to show for while Brooklyn has Harden.

To all that are saying Harden would cost Brown - how come Harden didn't cost Durant or Irving? I think Danny's priorities are off. He will  always be afraid to trade picks the way Brooklyn did.

[mobilija]

Brown isn’t the problem with this team currently. It’s Kemba and Tatum.

Except Tatum is by far the most important player to the team's actual success.  He isn't the problem, he is the solution.

I’ve been meaning to start a thread on this, and I haven’t because of laziness. What is up with all the Jayson Tatum criticism lately?

I don't get the Tatum hate either. I think it's probably due to a rabidly negative blogging fanbase that needs someone, anyone to blame, and are sick of calling out the usual suspects, so have now targeted Tatum.

Tatum and Brown are part of the solution, not the problem. At this point, this year(not every year the duo have played, but this year), they are equally important to the team. Losing either will seriously hurt this team.

The fanbase needs to be patient while these two guys figure out how to raise everyone else's game, and/or Ainge brings in some reliable, consistent vets to compliment them.

Tatum (and Brown) are young and need to be given a chance to grow, they are a great foundation to build upon.
But...they do have warts and there is nothing wrong w pointing them out and discussing them. I do have an issue w Tatum, one that he's had since he got here. Some years/games it's worse or better than others but to my eyes it's his biggest fault. He often stagnates the flow of the offense, ala Carmelo Anthony. The ball will be zipping around and it will stick on Tatum as he makes his in n out dribbles and sizes up his opponent. It freezes the offense, the ball and the players stop moving. I believe some posters call it "ball stopping". It's frustrating to watch. And though he has gotten better at creating shots for other players and getting assists, this "ball stopping" is a detriment to the team game.
BTW Tatum is the best current Celtic and the most important... Duh...