Gordon starting to turn the corner?

[jambr380]

I watched the whole game last night and definitely think Kyrie was the reason we lost plus Lakers had an abnormally amazing shooting night: 53% from 3.

While I am somewhat disappointed in Hayward thus far, it's really not his fault AND he has had a great attitude about it.

I really think it's almost time to put Hayward back in the starting lineup and Morris back to the bench. Hayward is not scoring yet but doing everything else pretty well: passing, the defense was good against Bron and taller McGee at times(as good as any guarding Bron), rebounds, etc. He is similar to Horford right now: does so many things well but doesn't always score a ton.

PLUS I feel like most of the game Hayward is not involved in the offense with kyrie, Tatum, Brown often doing their own thing. Kyrie has gotten a lot better-involving others but Tatum is the one that frustrates me. Yea, he had 5 assists last night but I feel he missed many open guys and instead forced up tough shots ala Kobe. Tatum is a really good player but just an average team player imo at the moment.

Morris should have been traded, as he is starting to return to the norm in relation to his shooting yet he still puts up shots.

Last night offensively and defensively he was abyssmal.

Kyrie had a bad night, we cannot expect him to play like an MVP every single night to win us games.

IF hayward is brought back into starting lineup, Brown needs to come as well, because we cannot have 2 inept offensive players in the starting lineup at a time.

I am all for Brown starting again. Even though Smart has played well, Brown would have never lost his spot if he were playing like he has since the first month of the season.

But, what are you talking about? Are you saying that Hayward is an inept offensive player or that Hayward is more inept than Morris? Because I don't see that at all. Hayward may not have all the same one on one moves that he used to have (that Morris lives for), but the rest of of his offensive game is easily just as good, and he blows Morris away with his playmaking.

[gpap]

I just hate the way people are treating him on this forum. It is not his fault for breaking his let in the worst way since Livingston did so.
Give him a break(no pun intended), at least look at the positives. He doesn’t have follow up injuries, and is showing flashes of his former all star self. I am confident that he will be a great bench player this season, and back compleatly the next october.

Quite the opposite, I am surprised how supportive and patient some people are Hayward. It's like he can do no wrong. The injury happened over a year ago. He's been perfectly healthy for a while. The injury factor is becoming an excuse. If he currently isn't fitting with the rest of the team, that's one issue. But I think we can stop using the injury as an excuse. He seems to be getting up and down the court just fine.

[gpap]

Anyone notice everytime this  thread  gets made, Hayward goes on to suck for 3-5 straight games? Lol

Hayward was a plus 19 tonight.

He's been playing well for some time now.

+/- stats are garbage because it uses the entire lineup as the basis of the calculation.

Brown shot 7-10, 2-4 from 3, 2-2 from the line, 18pts, 2 rbs, 1 ass, 1steal, 1block, a 150 offensive rating and a 130 defensive rating yet only had a +11.

Gordon did not do more towards the win than Brown, or Roziers +14, or theis +14 on his 40% shooting and 0% 3pt shooting.

+/- is a garbage stat.

Gordons offensive rating was 5th best out of 9 guys (impressive considering how god awful offensively Morris and Smart were) and he had the 2nd worst defensive rating on the game, just behind Marcus Smart who actually had to cover good offensive options all game as opposed to being hidden on defense,

Agreed. I don't mean to be rude, but these + or - stats are meaningless to me and quite frankly are meaningless in general. It's like looking for things that aren't even there.

[gpap]

I watched the whole game last night and definitely think Kyrie was the reason we lost plus Lakers had an abnormally amazing shooting night: 53% from 3.

While I am somewhat disappointed in Hayward thus far, it's really not his fault AND he has had a great attitude about it.

I really think it's almost time to put Hayward back in the starting lineup and Morris back to the bench. Hayward is not scoring yet but doing everything else pretty well: passing, the defense was good against Bron and taller McGee at times(as good as any guarding Bron), rebounds, etc. He is similar to Horford right now: does so many things well but doesn't always score a ton.

PLUS I feel like most of the game Hayward is not involved in the offense with kyrie, Tatum, Brown often doing their own thing. Kyrie has gotten a lot better-involving others but Tatum is the one that frustrates me. Yea, he had 5 assists last night but I feel he missed many open guys and instead forced up tough shots ala Kobe. Tatum is a really good player but just an average team player imo at the moment.

Morris should have been traded, as he is starting to return to the norm in relation to his shooting yet he still puts up shots.

Last night offensively and defensively he was abyssmal.

Kyrie had a bad night, we cannot expect him to play like an MVP every single night to win us games.

IF hayward is brought back into starting lineup, Brown needs to come as well, because we cannot have 2 inept offensive players in the starting lineup at a time.

I am all for Brown starting again. Even though Smart has played well, Brown would have never lost his spot if he were playing like he has since the first month of the season.

But, what are you talking about? Are you saying that Hayward is an inept offensive player or that Hayward is more inept than Morris? Because I don't see that at all. Hayward may not have all the same one on one moves that he used to have (that Morris lives for), but the rest of of his offensive game is easily just as good, and he blows Morris away with his playmaking.

I have no clue why or where the Morris hate is coming from, but he continues to be one of our most consistent players and our starting lineup improved dramatically when Morris was inserted.

If Hayward was so much better than Morris, then he would be starting over Morris, but he's not.

[Jiri Welsch]

I just hate the way people are treating him on this forum. It is not his fault for breaking his let in the worst way since Livingston did so.
Give him a break(no pun intended), at least look at the positives. He doesn’t have follow up injuries, and is showing flashes of his former all star self. I am confident that he will be a great bench player this season, and back compleatly the next october.

Quite the opposite, I am surprised how supportive and patient some people are Hayward. It's like he can do no wrong. The injury happened over a year ago. He's been perfectly healthy for a while. The injury factor is becoming an excuse. If he currently isn't fitting with the rest of the team, that's one issue. But I think we can stop using the injury as an excuse. He seems to be getting up and down the court just fine.

If you watch him jump and see the elevation he gets when taking jumpers it’s obvious he’s not fully healthy.

[gpap]

I just hate the way people are treating him on this forum. It is not his fault for breaking his let in the worst way since Livingston did so.
Give him a break(no pun intended), at least look at the positives. He doesn’t have follow up injuries, and is showing flashes of his former all star self. I am confident that he will be a great bench player this season, and back compleatly the next october.

Quite the opposite, I am surprised how supportive and patient some people are Hayward. It's like he can do no wrong. The injury happened over a year ago. He's been perfectly healthy for a while. The injury factor is becoming an excuse. If he currently isn't fitting with the rest of the team, that's one issue. But I think we can stop using the injury as an excuse. He seems to be getting up and down the court just fine.

If you watch him jump and see the elevation he gets when taking jumpers it’s obvious he’s not fully healthy.

I've seen him slam dunk and lay the ball in the net. He seems to be doing that just fine.

[Silky]

I watched the whole game last night and definitely think Kyrie was the reason we lost plus Lakers had an abnormally amazing shooting night: 53% from 3.

While I am somewhat disappointed in Hayward thus far, it's really not his fault AND he has had a great attitude about it.

I really think it's almost time to put Hayward back in the starting lineup and Morris back to the bench. Hayward is not scoring yet but doing everything else pretty well: passing, the defense was good against Bron and taller McGee at times(as good as any guarding Bron), rebounds, etc. He is similar to Horford right now: does so many things well but doesn't always score a ton.

PLUS I feel like most of the game Hayward is not involved in the offense with kyrie, Tatum, Brown often doing their own thing. Kyrie has gotten a lot better-involving others but Tatum is the one that frustrates me. Yea, he had 5 assists last night but I feel he missed many open guys and instead forced up tough shots ala Kobe. Tatum is a really good player but just an average team player imo at the moment.

Morris should have been traded, as he is starting to return to the norm in relation to his shooting yet he still puts up shots.

Last night offensively and defensively he was abyssmal.

Kyrie had a bad night, we cannot expect him to play like an MVP every single night to win us games.

IF hayward is brought back into starting lineup, Brown needs to come as well, because we cannot have 2 inept offensive players in the starting lineup at a time.

I am all for Brown starting again. Even though Smart has played well, Brown would have never lost his spot if he were playing like he has since the first month of the season.

But, what are you talking about? Are you saying that Hayward is an inept offensive player or that Hayward is more inept than Morris? Because I don't see that at all. Hayward may not have all the same one on one moves that he used to have (that Morris lives for), but the rest of of his offensive game is easily just as good, and he blows Morris away with his playmaking.

Hayward is for the most part and offensive and defensive liability on the court.

Marcus smart is an offensive liability even though this is his best offensive season ever.

Offense needs another weapon if hayward replaces morris in thebstarting lineup because you cannot trust gordon at this point in time offensive....and I do not want smart picking up the slack.

Thats why if hayward comes in for morris, that brown has to come in for smart. 

Balance.

[Wretch]

I watched the whole game last night and definitely think Kyrie was the reason we lost plus Lakers had an abnormally amazing shooting night: 53% from 3.

While I am somewhat disappointed in Hayward thus far, it's really not his fault AND he has had a great attitude about it.

I really think it's almost time to put Hayward back in the starting lineup and Morris back to the bench. Hayward is not scoring yet but doing everything else pretty well: passing, the defense was good against Bron and taller McGee at times(as good as any guarding Bron), rebounds, etc. He is similar to Horford right now: does so many things well but doesn't always score a ton.

PLUS I feel like most of the game Hayward is not involved in the offense with kyrie, Tatum, Brown often doing their own thing. Kyrie has gotten a lot better-involving others but Tatum is the one that frustrates me. Yea, he had 5 assists last night but I feel he missed many open guys and instead forced up tough shots ala Kobe. Tatum is a really good player but just an average team player imo at the moment.

Morris should have been traded, as he is starting to return to the norm in relation to his shooting yet he still puts up shots.

Last night offensively and defensively he was abyssmal.

Kyrie had a bad night, we cannot expect him to play like an MVP every single night to win us games.

IF hayward is brought back into starting lineup, Brown needs to come as well, because we cannot have 2 inept offensive players in the starting lineup at a time.

I am all for Brown starting again. Even though Smart has played well, Brown would have never lost his spot if he were playing like he has since the first month of the season.

But, what are you talking about? Are you saying that Hayward is an inept offensive player or that Hayward is more inept than Morris? Because I don't see that at all. Hayward may not have all the same one on one moves that he used to have (that Morris lives for), but the rest of of his offensive game is easily just as good, and he blows Morris away with his playmaking.

Hayward is for the most part and offensive and defensive liability on the court.

Marcus smart is an offensive liability even though this is his best offensive season ever.

Offense needs another weapon if hayward replaces morris in thebstarting lineup because you cannot trust gordon at this point in time offensive....and I do not want smart picking up the slack.

Thats why if hayward comes in for morris, that brown has to come in for smart. 

Balance.

I've seen  the take multiple times on this board that Hayward is a liability on offense and defense. The stats don't back that up his net rating is +5.9. He isn't his old self but he's not a scrub either. 

[jambr380]

I watched the whole game last night and definitely think Kyrie was the reason we lost plus Lakers had an abnormally amazing shooting night: 53% from 3.

While I am somewhat disappointed in Hayward thus far, it's really not his fault AND he has had a great attitude about it.

I really think it's almost time to put Hayward back in the starting lineup and Morris back to the bench. Hayward is not scoring yet but doing everything else pretty well: passing, the defense was good against Bron and taller McGee at times(as good as any guarding Bron), rebounds, etc. He is similar to Horford right now: does so many things well but doesn't always score a ton.

PLUS I feel like most of the game Hayward is not involved in the offense with kyrie, Tatum, Brown often doing their own thing. Kyrie has gotten a lot better-involving others but Tatum is the one that frustrates me. Yea, he had 5 assists last night but I feel he missed many open guys and instead forced up tough shots ala Kobe. Tatum is a really good player but just an average team player imo at the moment.

Morris should have been traded, as he is starting to return to the norm in relation to his shooting yet he still puts up shots.

Last night offensively and defensively he was abyssmal.

Kyrie had a bad night, we cannot expect him to play like an MVP every single night to win us games.

IF hayward is brought back into starting lineup, Brown needs to come as well, because we cannot have 2 inept offensive players in the starting lineup at a time.

I am all for Brown starting again. Even though Smart has played well, Brown would have never lost his spot if he were playing like he has since the first month of the season.

But, what are you talking about? Are you saying that Hayward is an inept offensive player or that Hayward is more inept than Morris? Because I don't see that at all. Hayward may not have all the same one on one moves that he used to have (that Morris lives for), but the rest of of his offensive game is easily just as good, and he blows Morris away with his playmaking.

I have no clue why or where the Morris hate is coming from, but he continues to be one of our most consistent players and our starting lineup improved dramatically when Morris was inserted.

If Hayward was so much better than Morris, then he would be starting over Morris, but he's not.

I certainly don't hate Morris, but I don't think we should lean upon him so much moving forward. He had a tremendous start to the year and has cooled down a bit lately - totally expected since he was putting up all-world efficiency numbers. OTOH, Hayward and Brown were pretty much trash to start the year and have consistently been getting better. I believe if current Hayward played similarly to Morris, he would put up bigger scoring numbers.

Also of note is that Hayward and Brown are going to be with us next season (and beyond) while Morris may very well be on another team (he deserves to get paid and we aren't the ones to be able to do it). All I really said was Hayward is a much better playmaker than Morris and is getting his scoring ability back to the level of Morris. That isn't that outlandish of a comment for a max-level All-star working his way back from injury.

[gouki88]

I watched the whole game last night and definitely think Kyrie was the reason we lost plus Lakers had an abnormally amazing shooting night: 53% from 3.

While I am somewhat disappointed in Hayward thus far, it's really not his fault AND he has had a great attitude about it.

I really think it's almost time to put Hayward back in the starting lineup and Morris back to the bench. Hayward is not scoring yet but doing everything else pretty well: passing, the defense was good against Bron and taller McGee at times(as good as any guarding Bron), rebounds, etc. He is similar to Horford right now: does so many things well but doesn't always score a ton.

PLUS I feel like most of the game Hayward is not involved in the offense with kyrie, Tatum, Brown often doing their own thing. Kyrie has gotten a lot better-involving others but Tatum is the one that frustrates me. Yea, he had 5 assists last night but I feel he missed many open guys and instead forced up tough shots ala Kobe. Tatum is a really good player but just an average team player imo at the moment.

Morris should have been traded, as he is starting to return to the norm in relation to his shooting yet he still puts up shots.

Last night offensively and defensively he was abyssmal.

Kyrie had a bad night, we cannot expect him to play like an MVP every single night to win us games.

IF hayward is brought back into starting lineup, Brown needs to come as well, because we cannot have 2 inept offensive players in the starting lineup at a time.

I am all for Brown starting again. Even though Smart has played well, Brown would have never lost his spot if he were playing like he has since the first month of the season.

But, what are you talking about? Are you saying that Hayward is an inept offensive player or that Hayward is more inept than Morris? Because I don't see that at all. Hayward may not have all the same one on one moves that he used to have (that Morris lives for), but the rest of of his offensive game is easily just as good, and he blows Morris away with his playmaking.

Hayward is for the most part and offensive and defensive liability on the court.

Marcus smart is an offensive liability even though this is his best offensive season ever.

Offense needs another weapon if hayward replaces morris in thebstarting lineup because you cannot trust gordon at this point in time offensive....and I do not want smart picking up the slack.

Thats why if hayward comes in for morris, that brown has to come in for smart. 

Balance.

I've seen  the take multiple times on this board that Hayward is a liability on offense and defense. The stats don't back that up his net rating is +5.9. He isn't his old self but he's not a scrub either.

Finally, thank you. He holds his own in one on one defence and makes good reads of the defence, and his IQ on offence is probably top 3 on the team. There’s more to basketball than hitting shots

[Silky]

I watched the whole game last night and definitely think Kyrie was the reason we lost plus Lakers had an abnormally amazing shooting night: 53% from 3.

While I am somewhat disappointed in Hayward thus far, it's really not his fault AND he has had a great attitude about it.

I really think it's almost time to put Hayward back in the starting lineup and Morris back to the bench. Hayward is not scoring yet but doing everything else pretty well: passing, the defense was good against Bron and taller McGee at times(as good as any guarding Bron), rebounds, etc. He is similar to Horford right now: does so many things well but doesn't always score a ton.

PLUS I feel like most of the game Hayward is not involved in the offense with kyrie, Tatum, Brown often doing their own thing. Kyrie has gotten a lot better-involving others but Tatum is the one that frustrates me. Yea, he had 5 assists last night but I feel he missed many open guys and instead forced up tough shots ala Kobe. Tatum is a really good player but just an average team player imo at the moment.

Morris should have been traded, as he is starting to return to the norm in relation to his shooting yet he still puts up shots.

Last night offensively and defensively he was abyssmal.

Kyrie had a bad night, we cannot expect him to play like an MVP every single night to win us games.

IF hayward is brought back into starting lineup, Brown needs to come as well, because we cannot have 2 inept offensive players in the starting lineup at a time.

I am all for Brown starting again. Even though Smart has played well, Brown would have never lost his spot if he were playing like he has since the first month of the season.

But, what are you talking about? Are you saying that Hayward is an inept offensive player or that Hayward is more inept than Morris? Because I don't see that at all. Hayward may not have all the same one on one moves that he used to have (that Morris lives for), but the rest of of his offensive game is easily just as good, and he blows Morris away with his playmaking.

Hayward is for the most part and offensive and defensive liability on the court.

Marcus smart is an offensive liability even though this is his best offensive season ever.

Offense needs another weapon if hayward replaces morris in thebstarting lineup because you cannot trust gordon at this point in time offensive....and I do not want smart picking up the slack.

Thats why if hayward comes in for morris, that brown has to come in for smart. 

Balance.

I've seen  the take multiple times on this board that Hayward is a liability on offense and defense. The stats don't back that up his net rating is +5.9. He isn't his old self but he's not a scrub either.

His net rating is 2. And he has a negative obpm

109 offensive and 107 defemsive while being hidden on both aspects.

[Humble G]

His net rating is 2. And he has a negative obpm

109 offensive and 107 defemsive while being hidden on both aspects.

I dont get the hidden thing. He doesnt get enough touches but still is out there setting others up and on Defense I believe he was guarding LeBron at times last night. AND i thought he did well against Bron.

[Silky]

His net rating is 2. And he has a negative obpm

109 offensive and 107 defemsive while being hidden on both aspects.

I dont get the hidden thing. He doesnt get enough touches but still is out there setting others up and on Defense I believe he was guarding LeBron at times last night. AND i thought he did well against Bron.

Tgey do not run any plays for hayward.

On defense the only time he was on lebron was when they made a switch. In no way would the team ever plan on hayward defending lebron for any stretch when smart/morris/tatum/brown all defemd him better

[gouki88]

His net rating is 2. And he has a negative obpm

109 offensive and 107 defemsive while being hidden on both aspects.

I dont get the hidden thing. He doesnt get enough touches but still is out there setting others up and on Defense I believe he was guarding LeBron at times last night. AND i thought he did well against Bron.

Tgey do not run any plays for hayward.

On defense the only time he was on lebron was when they made a switch. In no way would the team ever plan on hayward defending lebron for any stretch when smart/morris/tatum/brown all defemd him better

Simply not true. Hayward runs the pick and roll regularly.

Also, saying Tatum defends better than Hayward is hilarious. A guy can merely look at the ring and JT will bite on it and go flying by for a block

[Wretch]

I watched the whole game last night and definitely think Kyrie was the reason we lost plus Lakers had an abnormally amazing shooting night: 53% from 3.

While I am somewhat disappointed in Hayward thus far, it's really not his fault AND he has had a great attitude about it.

I really think it's almost time to put Hayward back in the starting lineup and Morris back to the bench. Hayward is not scoring yet but doing everything else pretty well: passing, the defense was good against Bron and taller McGee at times(as good as any guarding Bron), rebounds, etc. He is similar to Horford right now: does so many things well but doesn't always score a ton.

PLUS I feel like most of the game Hayward is not involved in the offense with kyrie, Tatum, Brown often doing their own thing. Kyrie has gotten a lot better-involving others but Tatum is the one that frustrates me. Yea, he had 5 assists last night but I feel he missed many open guys and instead forced up tough shots ala Kobe. Tatum is a really good player but just an average team player imo at the moment.

Morris should have been traded, as he is starting to return to the norm in relation to his shooting yet he still puts up shots.

Last night offensively and defensively he was abyssmal.

Kyrie had a bad night, we cannot expect him to play like an MVP every single night to win us games.

IF hayward is brought back into starting lineup, Brown needs to come as well, because we cannot have 2 inept offensive players in the starting lineup at a time.

I am all for Brown starting again. Even though Smart has played well, Brown would have never lost his spot if he were playing like he has since the first month of the season.

But, what are you talking about? Are you saying that Hayward is an inept offensive player or that Hayward is more inept than Morris? Because I don't see that at all. Hayward may not have all the same one on one moves that he used to have (that Morris lives for), but the rest of of his offensive game is easily just as good, and he blows Morris away with his playmaking.

Hayward is for the most part and offensive and defensive liability on the court.

Marcus smart is an offensive liability even though this is his best offensive season ever.

Offense needs another weapon if hayward replaces morris in thebstarting lineup because you cannot trust gordon at this point in time offensive....and I do not want smart picking up the slack.

Thats why if hayward comes in for morris, that brown has to come in for smart. 

Balance.

I've seen  the take multiple times on this board that Hayward is a liability on offense and defense. The stats don't back that up his net rating is +5.9. He isn't his old self but he's not a scrub either.

His net rating is 2. And he has a negative obpm

109 offensive and 107 defemsive while being hidden on both aspects.

Here is where I'm getting my stats. Not sure where your getting  109 and 107.

https://on.nba.com/2GgVzys