Chris Haynes: There’s a growing belief Kyrie won’t resign in Boston

[PhoSita]

Yeah that's not how trade exceptions work.

[Roy H.]

This isn't happening (too many working parts, too many teams to get to agree to deals, etc.), but I would appreciate insight of whether it could. I like to wrap my brain around possibilities.

1) The Kings trade Zach Randolph and Iman Shumpert into Denver's two large trade exemptions for draft picks, putting them 33.7 million under the salary cap.
2) The Celtics trade Gordon Hayward's 31.2 million dollar contract into the Kings's cap space for a small contract and future draft considerations, generating a 30 million dollar exemption for the Celtics to use because the trade happened into the King's cap space without salaries going back
3) The Celtics agree with Kyrie to restructure his contract, giving him a raise and more years, and using the 30 million dollar exemption to resign him midseason.
4) Kyrie is no longer on the stupid rose rule contract, enabling the Celtics to put together an offer for Davis.

I'm not advocating for trading Hayward, or resigning Kyrie, or even trading for Davis. It's just a puzzle that I want to know if it can be solved this way.

Nevermind. I just read (not in the official CBA, but in an article about Harden's contract restructure) that you can only restructure a player's contract using cap space. Can someone with knowledge verify? Or is this just a reporter not knowing what he is talking about?

This is true.

Trade exceptions can only be used to acquire players via trade or waivers.

[Moranis]

This isn't happening (too many working parts, too many teams to get to agree to deals, etc.), but I would appreciate insight of whether it could. I like to wrap my brain around possibilities.

1) The Kings trade Zach Randolph and Iman Shumpert into Denver's two large trade exemptions for draft picks, putting them 33.7 million under the salary cap.
2) The Celtics trade Gordon Hayward's 31.2 million dollar contract into the Kings's cap space for a small contract and future draft considerations, generating a 30 million dollar exemption for the Celtics to use because the trade happened into the King's cap space without salaries going back
3) The Celtics agree with Kyrie to restructure his contract, giving him a raise and more years, and using the 30 million dollar exemption to resign him midseason.
4) Kyrie is no longer on the stupid rose rule contract, enabling the Celtics to put together an offer for Davis.

I'm not advocating for trading Hayward, or resigning Kyrie, or even trading for Davis. It's just a puzzle that I want to know if it can be solved this way.

Nevermind. I just read (not in the official CBA, but in an article about Harden's contract restructure) that you can only restructure a player's contract using cap space. Can someone with knowledge verify? Or is this just a reporter not knowing what he is talking about?

This is true.

Trade exceptions can only be used to acquire players via trade or waivers.

though if Boston just dumped Hayward for no money  back it would create some cap room

[DefenseWinsChamps]

This isn't happening (too many working parts, too many teams to get to agree to deals, etc.), but I would appreciate insight of whether it could. I like to wrap my brain around possibilities.

1) The Kings trade Zach Randolph and Iman Shumpert into Denver's two large trade exemptions for draft picks, putting them 33.7 million under the salary cap.
2) The Celtics trade Gordon Hayward's 31.2 million dollar contract into the Kings's cap space for a small contract and future draft considerations, generating a 30 million dollar exemption for the Celtics to use because the trade happened into the King's cap space without salaries going back
3) The Celtics agree with Kyrie to restructure his contract, giving him a raise and more years, and using the 30 million dollar exemption to resign him midseason.
4) Kyrie is no longer on the stupid rose rule contract, enabling the Celtics to put together an offer for Davis.

I'm not advocating for trading Hayward, or resigning Kyrie, or even trading for Davis. It's just a puzzle that I want to know if it can be solved this way.

Cannot use TPE to sign players.

They are either renounced for capspace or used as trade balast

Ok. Nevermind using the exemption to resign Kyrie.

1) If the Kings still did the trade with Denver, and then we traded Hayward to the Kings.
2) After that, if we traded Bird and Baynes to another team, taking little to no salary back, then we would have roughly 12 million in cap space.
3) We could use the space, ala James Harden and Russell Westbrook's contract restructure, to give Irving a raise and added years. I think the raise would be only 7.5%, which means Kyrie would have to take a paycut from what he would have got this off-season.
4) Then, we trade for Davis.

Again, a lot of moving parts that make this pretty impossible, but I just want to see if it was legal.

[smokeablount]

This isn't happening (too many working parts, too many teams to get to agree to deals, etc.), but I would appreciate insight of whether it could. I like to wrap my brain around possibilities.

1) The Kings trade Zach Randolph and Iman Shumpert into Denver's two large trade exemptions for draft picks, putting them 33.7 million under the salary cap.
2) The Celtics trade Gordon Hayward's 31.2 million dollar contract into the Kings's cap space for a small contract and future draft considerations, generating a 30 million dollar exemption for the Celtics to use because the trade happened into the King's cap space without salaries going back
3) The Celtics agree with Kyrie to restructure his contract, giving him a raise and more years, and using the 30 million dollar exemption to resign him midseason.
4) Kyrie is no longer on the stupid rose rule contract, enabling the Celtics to put together an offer for Davis.

I'm not advocating for trading Hayward, or resigning Kyrie, or even trading for Davis. It's just a puzzle that I want to know if it can be solved this way.

Nevermind. I just read (not in the official CBA, but in an article about Harden's contract restructure) that you can only restructure a player's contract using cap space. Can someone with knowledge verify? Or is this just a reporter not knowing what he is talking about?

This is true.

Trade exceptions can only be used to acquire players via trade or waivers.

Roy, you've always had some solid CBA knowledge, but it seems you're stepping your game up in the absence of Salty?  On behalf of all us non-CBA experts, thanks, that's clutch (with a C everyone not with a K, just relax). 

[jpotter33]

Jackie Mac, asked about rumors Kyrie is leaving, laughs and says this is Rich Paul’s doing. Kinda what I thought, but when she says there’s nothing to it, that goes a long way with me.

https://twitter.com/SamSheehan/status/1090404781116542976?s=20

She didn't exactly say there was nothing to it.  In fact, she said maybe he is a little unsure.

Wow.


Honest question, are you a Celtics fan? I ask because only a non-Celtics fan could spin what Mac said like you just did.

More of a non-Kyrie fan I’d say.

But yeah, she laughed it off, said she hadn’t heard anything of the kind, and suggested the rumor came from Rich Paul. She also indicated that he’d love to play with Anthony Davis.

she absolutley laughed and then preceeded to talk about Irving's frustration and specifically said he was a little unsure.  That isn't exactly the glowing denial that has been presented here.

I'm just not a flaming homer that much if this board is.  I live in reality when it comes to my fandom.

No, you’re a contrarian is what you are.

And you need to listen more closely. She said he is a little frustrated - as is the whole team - but she only said “EVEN IF HE IS a little unsure,” which is clearly a hypothetical she was positing to say that playing with AD would cure any uncertainty, if he was unsure at all.

So let’s take stock in what she said - (1) Rich Paul conspiracy, (2) puts “no stock” into this report, and (3) that while frustrated, playing with AD would cure all. Yes, definitely, only a “flaming homer” would think that constitutes a denial of this report. 

a bit strange to chide someone for not listening and then not actually listen yourself. She clearly said Irving is frustrated with the teans performance and that he doesn't want to be the James Harden of New England.  That doesn't strike me as a statement that is a ringing endorsement of someone who is happy and for sure staying.

And sure if Boston acquires Davis I can't imagne Irving not staying.

Come on, Moranis, you're making this too easy now.

A) You're clearly moving the goalposts here. First you said that Jackie, "specifically said he was a little unsure," and now that I highlighted that she actually did not say that, you're pivoting to merely focusing on him being "frustrated" as your argument. Weak sauce, man.

B) I *literally* - not figuratively, mind you, *literally* - included in my post that she said he is frustrated, but that's not controversial at all. Everyone on the team has been frustrated this season, as high expectations are not being met, and pretty much everyone on this board would agree to this. Further, I'm sure this "frustration" has been significantly alleviated in the past month with us getting healthier and playing more consistent ball.

So, again, no, you're the one misinterpreting Jackie here and not giving it the appropriate weight.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I feel like I need to clarify the steps:

1) Three-way trade with Denver, Sacramento, and Boston
Boston receives: Isaiah Thomas, future Denver 2nd
Denver receives: Randolph, Bogdonavic, Yabu
Sacramento receives: Denver's trade exemptions, Hayward, Bird
2) Celtics restructure Kyrie's contract, able to add up to 10 million more (10 million in cap space after the trade) to his contract and extra years to his contract, depending on what the rules are.
3. Celtics trade Baynes, Brown, Morris, Rozier, and Williams plus picks for Davis.

Celtics are left with Irving-Smart-Tatum-Horford-Davis and Thomas-Ojeleye-Theis-Wanamaker-buyouts on the bench.

The big question would be whether or not a restructured rose-rule contract is still considered a rose-rule contract.

[Silky]

This isn't happening (too many working parts, too many teams to get to agree to deals, etc.), but I would appreciate insight of whether it could. I like to wrap my brain around possibilities.

1) The Kings trade Zach Randolph and Iman Shumpert into Denver's two large trade exemptions for draft picks, putting them 33.7 million under the salary cap.
2) The Celtics trade Gordon Hayward's 31.2 million dollar contract into the Kings's cap space for a small contract and future draft considerations, generating a 30 million dollar exemption for the Celtics to use because the trade happened into the King's cap space without salaries going back
3) The Celtics agree with Kyrie to restructure his contract, giving him a raise and more years, and using the 30 million dollar exemption to resign him midseason.
4) Kyrie is no longer on the stupid rose rule contract, enabling the Celtics to put together an offer for Davis.

I'm not advocating for trading Hayward, or resigning Kyrie, or even trading for Davis. It's just a puzzle that I want to know if it can be solved this way.

Cannot use TPE to sign players.

They are either renounced for capspace or used as trade balast

Ok. Nevermind using the exemption to resign Kyrie.

1) If the Kings still did the trade with Denver, and then we traded Hayward to the Kings.
2) After that, if we traded Bird and Baynes to another team, taking little to no salary back, then we would have roughly 12 million in cap space.
3) We could use the space, ala James Harden and Russell Westbrook's contract restructure, to give Irving a raise and added years. I think the raise would be only 7.5%, which means Kyrie would have to take a paycut from what he would have got this off-season.
4) Then, we trade for Davis.

Again, a lot of moving parts that make this pretty impossible, but I just want to see if it was legal.

Yes, I dont have the teams salary structure in front of me, but if trading Hayward for TPE, then immediately renouncing that TPE the available capspace would be able to bu used to restructure/resign Kyrie

[RJ87]

I feel like I need to clarify the steps:

1) Three-way trade with Denver, Sacramento, and Boston
Boston receives: Isaiah Thomas, future Denver 2nd
Denver receives: Randolph, Bogdonavic, Yabu
Sacramento receives: Denver's trade exemptions, Hayward, Bird
2) Celtics restructure Kyrie's contract, able to add up to 10 million more (10 million in cap space after the trade) to his contract and extra years to his contract, depending on what the rules are.
3. Celtics trade Baynes, Brown, Morris, Rozier, and Williams plus picks for Davis.

Celtics are left with Irving-Smart-Tatum-Horford-Davis and Thomas-Ojeleye-Theis-Wanamaker-buyouts on the bench.

The big question would be whether or not a restructured rose-rule contract is still considered a rose-rule contract.

This wouldn't even go down in Mock Trade. I'm not sure what the point of this is. Not being snarky, just not sure why you're putting so much effort into a scenario that flat out isn't happening.

[Silky]

I feel like I need to clarify the steps:

1) Three-way trade with Denver, Sacramento, and Boston
Boston receives: Isaiah Thomas, future Denver 2nd
Denver receives: Randolph, Bogdonavic, Yabu
Sacramento receives: Denver's trade exemptions, Hayward, Bird
2) Celtics restructure Kyrie's contract, able to add up to 10 million more (10 million in cap space after the trade) to his contract and extra years to his contract, depending on what the rules are.
3. Celtics trade Baynes, Brown, Morris, Rozier, and Williams plus picks for Davis.

Celtics are left with Irving-Smart-Tatum-Horford-Davis and Thomas-Ojeleye-Theis-Wanamaker-buyouts on the bench.

The big question would be whether or not a restructured rose-rule contract is still considered a rose-rule contract.

On the last part, a restructured contract would no longer be classed as a rose contract. The changing of dollar amounts, terms, all create a new contract voiding the original rose-rule one.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I feel like I need to clarify the steps:

1) Three-way trade with Denver, Sacramento, and Boston
Boston receives: Isaiah Thomas, future Denver 2nd
Denver receives: Randolph, Bogdonavic, Yabu
Sacramento receives: Denver's trade exemptions, Hayward, Bird
2) Celtics restructure Kyrie's contract, able to add up to 10 million more (10 million in cap space after the trade) to his contract and extra years to his contract, depending on what the rules are.
3. Celtics trade Baynes, Brown, Morris, Rozier, and Williams plus picks for Davis.

Celtics are left with Irving-Smart-Tatum-Horford-Davis and Thomas-Ojeleye-Theis-Wanamaker-buyouts on the bench.

The big question would be whether or not a restructured rose-rule contract is still considered a rose-rule contract.

This wouldn't even go down in Mock Trade. I'm not sure what the point of this is. Not being snarky, just not sure why you're putting so much effort into a scenario that flat out isn't happening.

It's problem solving. That's all. I think you could argue that Denver and Sacramento would both consider those trades. It benefits their teams, especially in the playoff hunt.

Then, I think you could argue that Kyrie would consider restructuring now to make sure the Cs got Davis.

Then, I think you could argue that our trade package is the best one out there for Davis.

[Moranis]

Jackie Mac, asked about rumors Kyrie is leaving, laughs and says this is Rich Paul’s doing. Kinda what I thought, but when she says there’s nothing to it, that goes a long way with me.

https://twitter.com/SamSheehan/status/1090404781116542976?s=20

She didn't exactly say there was nothing to it.  In fact, she said maybe he is a little unsure.

Wow.


Honest question, are you a Celtics fan? I ask because only a non-Celtics fan could spin what Mac said like you just did.

More of a non-Kyrie fan I’d say.

But yeah, she laughed it off, said she hadn’t heard anything of the kind, and suggested the rumor came from Rich Paul. She also indicated that he’d love to play with Anthony Davis.

she absolutley laughed and then preceeded to talk about Irving's frustration and specifically said he was a little unsure.  That isn't exactly the glowing denial that has been presented here.

I'm just not a flaming homer that much if this board is.  I live in reality when it comes to my fandom.

No, you’re a contrarian is what you are.

And you need to listen more closely. She said he is a little frustrated - as is the whole team - but she only said “EVEN IF HE IS a little unsure,” which is clearly a hypothetical she was positing to say that playing with AD would cure any uncertainty, if he was unsure at all.

So let’s take stock in what she said - (1) Rich Paul conspiracy, (2) puts “no stock” into this report, and (3) that while frustrated, playing with AD would cure all. Yes, definitely, only a “flaming homer” would think that constitutes a denial of this report. 

a bit strange to chide someone for not listening and then not actually listen yourself. She clearly said Irving is frustrated with the teans performance and that he doesn't want to be the James Harden of New England.  That doesn't strike me as a statement that is a ringing endorsement of someone who is happy and for sure staying.

And sure if Boston acquires Davis I can't imagne Irving not staying.

Come on, Moranis, you're making this too easy now.

A) You're clearly moving the goalposts here. First you said that Jackie, "specifically said he was a little unsure," and now that I highlighted that she actually did not say that, you're pivoting to merely focusing on him being "frustrated" as your argument. Weak sauce, man.

B) I *literally* - not figuratively, mind you, *literally* - included in my post that she said he is frustrated, but that's not controversial at all. Everyone on the team has been frustrated this season, as high expectations are not being met, and pretty much everyone on this board would agree to this. Further, I'm sure this "frustration" has been significantly alleviated in the past month with us getting healthier and playing more consistent ball.

So, again, no, you're the one misinterpreting Jackie here and not giving it the appropriate weight.

she specifically said he was frustrated because of his load and a concern he would turn into James Harden of New England.  That is no where near the same thing that you are implying.  Now maybe Hayward turns out around and alleviates some of that load, but if not that concern is there all season. The second part about being unsure listening back multiple times it is clear she didn't have any real knowledge or insight and was just hypothesizing since she had no real insight.

I absolutely agree with her (which I've said in this thread) that if Davis is acquired Irving would re-sign here without hesitation because in part he would no longer be the James Harden of New England.

[celticsclay]

What does the James Harden of New England mean? Winning the MVP repeatedly, with a smart front office and getting tons of media coverage and being an injury a half away from the finals? That seems like a weird way to phrase it. 

[KGs Knee]

What does the James Harden of New England mean?

IDK...

But which is funnier?

James Harden of New England

or...

Premium Brand Ricky Davis

[Moranis]

What does the James Harden of New England mean? Winning the MVP repeatedly, with a smart front office and getting tons of media coverage and being an injury a half away from the finals? That seems like a weird way to phrase it.

I assume in the context of her statement that he doesn't want to be a 1 man team and have to do everything.  You'd have to ask Jackie Mac though as she said it