Gordon Hayward Substraction by Addition

[mctyson]

Gordon Hayward has games where he looks extremely tentative out there. Looking to pass on his drives with practically zero threat to score. Times like those make me think I’d rather have Brad Wanamaker on the floor

The biggest issue for Gordon as I mentioned in the other Gordon thread is his inconsistency. He has games where he looks good and engaged and scores 15+ points, then he has games where he struggles to get into the flow of the offense and he has 5 or less. I think he's had more single digit games this year since 2012. I expected less scoring from him because of how many players we have and how it's an ensemble type offense but he has pretty big swings - certainly 2 pt games, 4 pt games, are poor value for money for the Celtics $30m.

I don't have stats to back this up but I've watched every Celtics game this year and if he starts well and gets some plays run for him, like a dribble handoff screen or something, it usually sets the tone for him. If he misses a few sitters (e.g. that layup he missed tonight) then he seems to get down on himself then the pressure to contribute offensively seems to build. Then he gets hesitant whether it's to pass or to shoot. On the boards he's worked hard, as with defending, though he's clearly lacking lateral quickness. Then he struggles to influence the game and ends up basically standing in the corner waiting for a pass from a guy driving and kicking the ball out.

They mentioned a stat in the pregame show on NBCSports Boston that the Celtics are 12-3 when Hayward has a usage rate of 20% or higher and 18-15 (now 18-16) when he has less. He's averaging 18.3% right now. Maybe (like Jaylen and Terry) he needs the ball in his hands more. He's a career 36% 3 point shooter so it's not like he's going to go Steph Curry on people when he gets subbed in.

I say it a lot but Stevens is doing no one a favor by playing Hayward, Brown and Rozier together.

[KG Living Legend]

 More minutes and more shots for our best players equals more wins.

 Hayward plays 26 minutes per game slightly more than Brown which is ridiculous considering Jaylen is 21 and am intracle part of the future.

 Let's give his minutes and shots to our best players who are shooting lights better. And that's we'll, everyone.

 Jaylen is shooting bad this year at .320% from three, but that's still better than Hayward.

 Smart is shooting .366% on 4 attempts per. Irving. 413% on 6 attempts. Morris .425% on 5 attempts. Tatum .378% on 4.5 attempts.

 So Tatum goes from 31 mpg to 36 and bumps his avg to 20 PPG 7 RPG

 Brown benefits most taking his minutes from 26 to 35 mpg and increase to 17 pph and 6 RPG.

Morris 19 PPG and 7 RPG

 Let's remember that all these guys shoot better from the field and Brown played much better defense. Naturally the offense with be more efficient.
 
 Brown plays 10 more minutes.  Tatum plays another 5 minutes. Morris another 6 minutes.

 Watch Jaylens transformation when we remove Hayward from the equation. Danny is the man but this Hayward signing is a disaster.

 

 
 

[KG Living Legend]

There's a reason why the warriors are playing cousins important minutes like tonight even though they were playing better with looney or iguodala.

Its the same reason why we are giving hayward reps.

 Come on man. Cousins justI got back from his injury any looks absolutely fantastic for a guy that's been out that long it's almost 300 lb. Hayward has had all year to get comfortable and he still looks terrible dump this guy.

[KG Living Legend]

Gordon Hayward is STILL our 2nd best player on this team..closely followed by Big Al and Tatum is closing the gap as well.

Has he played like this all season? Certainly not. This has hurt us in some of our losses, especially the last month or so.

As I watched last night's game and looked at the box scores I'd loved for Hayward to have given us 10 points......

We are NOT that far from GSW...a rebound here, a stop there....10 points from Hayward....and we'd have won last night.

With THAT being said only Gordon Hayward knows where he's at right now, mentally and physically. I'm sure he's close to Coach Stevens. I'm sure they communicate.

If Coach isn't going to change things up (subtract minutes, add minutes, change lineups, etc, etc, etc) - then I'll stand by Gordon.

Give this TIME.

 Greenfaith you're a great poster but you simply cannot believe this not right now to make this statement is to be living in the past the guy will never be the same again and even the guy that we signed I'm not convinced is better than Tatum.

[RJ87]

Gordon Hayward is STILL our 2nd best player on this team..closely followed by Big Al and Tatum is closing the gap as well.

Has he played like this all season? Certainly not. This has hurt us in some of our losses, especially the last month or so.

As I watched last night's game and looked at the box scores I'd loved for Hayward to have given us 10 points......

We are NOT that far from GSW...a rebound here, a stop there....10 points from Hayward....and we'd have won last night.

With THAT being said only Gordon Hayward knows where he's at right now, mentally and physically. I'm sure he's close to Coach Stevens. I'm sure they communicate.

If Coach isn't going to change things up (subtract minutes, add minutes, change lineups, etc, etc, etc) - then I'll stand by Gordon.

Give this TIME.

 Greenfaith you're a great poster but you simply cannot believe this not right now to make this statement is to be living in the past the guy will never be the same again and even the guy that we signed I'm not convinced is better than Tatum.

It's amazing how people make these types of statements with absolution. Some players get back quicker than others, so because he hasn't bounced back right away he can't ever? That's absurd.

[MattyIce]

Gordon Hayward is STILL our 2nd best player on this team..closely followed by Big Al and Tatum is closing the gap as well.

Has he played like this all season? Certainly not. This has hurt us in some of our losses, especially the last month or so.

As I watched last night's game and looked at the box scores I'd loved for Hayward to have given us 10 points......

We are NOT that far from GSW...a rebound here, a stop there....10 points from Hayward....and we'd have won last night.

With THAT being said only Gordon Hayward knows where he's at right now, mentally and physically. I'm sure he's close to Coach Stevens. I'm sure they communicate.

If Coach isn't going to change things up (subtract minutes, add minutes, change lineups, etc, etc, etc) - then I'll stand by Gordon.

Give this TIME.

 Greenfaith you're a great poster but you simply cannot believe this not right now to make this statement is to be living in the past the guy will never be the same again and even the guy that we signed I'm not convinced is better than Tatum.

you may end up being right but we don't know that yet.  (same was said of PG13)

the old GH was better than Tatum

[SHAQATTACK]

There's a reason why the warriors are playing cousins important minutes like tonight even though they were playing better with looney or iguodala.

Its the same reason why we are giving hayward reps.

 Come on man. Cousins justI got back from his injury any looks absolutely fantastic for a guy that's been out that long it's almost 300 lb. Hayward has had all year to get comfortable and he still looks terrible dump this guy.

you are right .  Cousins IS really trying ,  he does NOT actually look as physically smooth as Gordon to me....BUT , he is going ahead and trying do what he can .  I don't believe Gordon has anything wrong but his brain .

Hayward is mentally screwed up .  He is playing like KO and Zeller , doing nothing at all inside 12 foot of the bucket.  Either play or stay home .

The rest of the team sees this ,  the fans see this ....you got to be blind not to see it.  Or is he old , fat and too much a baby daddy to play NBA ball ?  you gotta axe yourself ...does he really want this situation anymore ?

[Rondo9]

There's a reason why the warriors are playing cousins important minutes like tonight even though they were playing better with looney or iguodala.

Its the same reason why we are giving hayward reps.

 Come on man. Cousins justI got back from his injury any looks absolutely fantastic for a guy that's been out that long it's almost 300 lb. Hayward has had all year to get comfortable and he still looks terrible dump this guy.

It’s very shortsighted to dump a guy after half a year of playing. Seriously be patient he had his ankle practically snapped in half.

[Rondo9]

And seriously Hayward was not even the reason why the Celtics lost last night but of course need scapegoats to blame whenever the team hits a roadblock.

[LarBrd33]

I'm not mad at Hayward, but I'm a little annoyed by his current role.  I'm not sure it makes sense to have Jaylen brown and gordon hayward each playing 22 minutes off the bench... with hayward taking only 5 shots.. meanwhile Marcus SMart and Marcus Morris go a combined 7-23 from the field in the starting line-up.  I'm leaning heavily towards the opinion we need to stop dicking around with the Marcus/Marcus starting line-up and go for broke with our 5 leaf clover.

This team is never going to reach he "ceiling" everyone expected without our theoretical stars playing like stars... and those theoretical stars aren't going to play like stars without getting star minutes.

[Jvalin]

Is there any doubt we would be better off without him? This year for sure. Probably the next two years as well.

 I absolutely would attach 1 first to Hayward to dump him and possibly two future Celtics firsts for Paul Milsaps expiring contract.

 It's an issue that Stevens is force feeding this guy minutes when other players clearly deserve those minutes and would contribute to winning more than The Gamer Gordon.

With all do respect, stop overreacting! So Hayward needs more time to return to his old self after the injury. Fine, give him more time. Paul George had a slow recovery as well and he's an all-star starter in the West this year.

Besides, what difference does it make that Millsap's contract expires this summer? We won't have enough cap space to replace him anyway. Why attaching pick(s) to dump Hayward's salary when we can no longer replace him via free agency? It makes no sense to me whatsoever. Not to mention, we need every one of those picks to go after AD. I'd much rather give Hayward more time to return to his old self. I'm still confident that he will (although it may take a bit more time than what we initially expected).

[celticinorlando]

And seriously Hayward was not even the reason why the Celtics lost last night but of course need scapegoats to blame whenever the team hits a roadblock.

He scored 2 points. If he scores just 10 they win. He could not defend in the third quarter. Even Warriors players said after the game he is a liability out there.

He gets 30 million bucks a year and we all get giddy when he scores 10 or more points. He is a problem.

[celticinorlando]

There's a reason why the warriors are playing cousins important minutes like tonight even though they were playing better with looney or iguodala.

Its the same reason why we are giving hayward reps.

 Come on man. Cousins justI got back from his injury any looks absolutely fantastic for a guy that's been out that long it's almost 300 lb. Hayward has had all year to get comfortable and he still looks terrible dump this guy.

It’s very shortsighted to dump a guy after half a year of playing. Seriously be patient he had his ankle practically snapped in half.

Anonymous Warriors player tells Jeff Goodman: Gordon Hayward is a "liability on both ends of court" https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/1/27/18199617/anonymous-warriors-player-tells-jeff-goodman-gordon-hayward-is-a-liability-on-both-ends-of-court?utm_campaign=celticsblog&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter …

[KG Living Legend]

And seriously Hayward was not even the reason why the Celtics lost last night but of course need scapegoats to blame whenever the team hits a roadblock.

He scored 2 points. If he scores just 10 they win. He could not defend in the third quarter. Even Warriors players said after the game he is a liability out there.

He gets 30 million bucks a year and we all get giddy when he scores 10 or more points. He is a problem.

 2 big fat TPs to Shaq and Orlando for telling it like it is. Hayward your scared. Get hyponsis. Face your fears or ride the pine.

[RJ87]

There's a reason why the warriors are playing cousins important minutes like tonight even though they were playing better with looney or iguodala.

Its the same reason why we are giving hayward reps.

 Come on man. Cousins justI got back from his injury any looks absolutely fantastic for a guy that's been out that long it's almost 300 lb. Hayward has had all year to get comfortable and he still looks terrible dump this guy.

It’s very shortsighted to dump a guy after half a year of playing. Seriously be patient he had his ankle practically snapped in half.

Anonymous Warriors player tells Jeff Goodman: Gordon Hayward is a "liability on both ends of court" https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/1/27/18199617/anonymous-warriors-player-tells-jeff-goodman-gordon-hayward-is-a-liability-on-both-ends-of-court?utm_campaign=celticsblog&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter …

Who cares what an "anonymous" opposing player says? If he feels so moved to speak on it, let him Durant Mr. Anonymous say it without conditions.