Gordon Hayward Substraction by Addition

[gouki88]

The team would likely be better. Hayward is awful. I'm not sure why Celtics fans were predicting All NBA/All Star status from a guy who had one all-star appearance in his career. I would give two future first round picks to dump him. Easy decision.

Good thing you're not the GM.

Yep! I especially love how he glosses over 3 years of roughly 20/5/4 production

Many bad players have put up numbers on bad teams.

LOL. How many 'bad' players have put up 20/5/4 over a 229 game span, including averaging 25/4/4 against the eventual champions?

Corey Maggette 2007 to 2010.

You mean the same guy who had already put up 2 seasons of scoring over 20PPG? Try again

[blink]

I like Gordon as a player.   I guess Brad feels that force feeding him minutes until he gets back to 'normal' what ever that is, is the best way forward.  Before he came to Boston he was a great player.  I expect he will get back to being close to that eventually.  When that will be?  Who knows.

But I can see how people say he is hurting us at times right now though.  He doesn't seem to have lift with his jumpshot, he seems tentative to take shots and drive to the hoop, he gets blown by a lot playing quicker players.  I mean there are things that he still does well, he is a good passer, is generally smart with the basketball.  But he isn't close to being back to where most of expected him to be by the all-star game. 

I think the biggest problem with all of this was Brad starting the season with him in the starting lineup.  I think he should have came off the bench from the start as he worked himself back into game shape / game mentality.  I was one of the people who said 'wait til April / May' and he will be fine'.  I am not quite so sure anymore.  It might be next year before he gets his quickness and mental game back.

[KungPoweChicken]

The team would likely be better. Hayward is awful. I'm not sure why Celtics fans were predicting All NBA/All Star status from a guy who had one all-star appearance in his career. I would give two future first round picks to dump him. Easy decision.

Good thing you're not the GM.

Yep! I especially love how he glosses over 3 years of roughly 20/5/4 production

Many bad players have put up numbers on bad teams.

LOL. How many 'bad' players have put up 20/5/4 over a 229 game span, including averaging 25/4/4 against the eventual champions?

Corey Maggette 2007 to 2010.

You mean the same guy who had already put up 2 seasons of scoring over 20PPG? Try again

What are you saying? You're not making any sense. Elaborate.

[ETNCeltics]

There was no doubt in my mind who started this epic fail of a thread before I even opened it.

[gouki88]

The team would likely be better. Hayward is awful. I'm not sure why Celtics fans were predicting All NBA/All Star status from a guy who had one all-star appearance in his career. I would give two future first round picks to dump him. Easy decision.

Good thing you're not the GM.

Yep! I especially love how he glosses over 3 years of roughly 20/5/4 production

Many bad players have put up numbers on bad teams.

LOL. How many 'bad' players have put up 20/5/4 over a 229 game span, including averaging 25/4/4 against the eventual champions?

Corey Maggette 2007 to 2010.

You mean the same guy who had already put up 2 seasons of scoring over 20PPG? Try again

What are you saying? You're not making any sense. Elaborate.

Corey Maggette already had proven to be one of the better scorers in the NBA. He was on the same level as Kobe and PP in terms of generating free throws. And he averaged 19.5PPG over a 7 year span. He's not a bad player by any means.

[KungPoweChicken]

The team would likely be better. Hayward is awful. I'm not sure why Celtics fans were predicting All NBA/All Star status from a guy who had one all-star appearance in his career. I would give two future first round picks to dump him. Easy decision.

Good thing you're not the GM.

Yep! I especially love how he glosses over 3 years of roughly 20/5/4 production

Many bad players have put up numbers on bad teams.

LOL. How many 'bad' players have put up 20/5/4 over a 229 game span, including averaging 25/4/4 against the eventual champions?

Corey Maggette 2007 to 2010.

You mean the same guy who had already put up 2 seasons of scoring over 20PPG? Try again

What are you saying? You're not making any sense. Elaborate.

Corey Maggette already had proven to be one of the better scorers in the NBA. He was on the same level as Kobe and PP in terms of generating free throws. And he averaged 19.5PPG over a 7 year span. He's not a bad player by any means.

He made the playoffs once in his career, never made an All-Star game, and has a 0% chance at the HOF. Sound like someone we know? Certainly doesn't sound like Kobe or Pierce. But if you think Maggette was as good as those guys, then that is certainly a hot take.

[10610786d]

The team would likely be better. Hayward is awful. I'm not sure why Celtics fans were predicting All NBA/All Star status from a guy who had one all-star appearance in his career. I would give two future first round picks to dump him. Easy decision.

Good thing you're not the GM.

Yep! I especially love how he glosses over 3 years of roughly 20/5/4 production

Many bad players have put up numbers on bad teams.

LOL. How many 'bad' players have put up 20/5/4 over a 229 game span, including averaging 25/4/4 against the eventual champions?

Corey Maggette 2007 to 2010.

You mean the same guy who had already put up 2 seasons of scoring over 20PPG? Try again

What are you saying? You're not making any sense. Elaborate.

Corey Maggette already had proven to be one of the better scorers in the NBA. He was on the same level as Kobe and PP in terms of generating free throws. And he averaged 19.5PPG over a 7 year span. He's not a bad player by any means.

He made the playoffs once in his career, never made an All-Star game, and has a 0% chance at the HOF. Sound like someone we know? Certainly doesn't sound like Kobe or Pierce. But if you think Maggette was as good as those guys, then that is certainly a hot take.

Haha gouki walked himself into that one...

[gouki88]

The team would likely be better. Hayward is awful. I'm not sure why Celtics fans were predicting All NBA/All Star status from a guy who had one all-star appearance in his career. I would give two future first round picks to dump him. Easy decision.

Good thing you're not the GM.

Yep! I especially love how he glosses over 3 years of roughly 20/5/4 production

Many bad players have put up numbers on bad teams.

LOL. How many 'bad' players have put up 20/5/4 over a 229 game span, including averaging 25/4/4 against the eventual champions?

Corey Maggette 2007 to 2010.

You mean the same guy who had already put up 2 seasons of scoring over 20PPG? Try again

What are you saying? You're not making any sense. Elaborate.

Corey Maggette already had proven to be one of the better scorers in the NBA. He was on the same level as Kobe and PP in terms of generating free throws. And he averaged 19.5PPG over a 7 year span. He's not a bad player by any means.

He made the playoffs once in his career, never made an All-Star game, and has a 0% chance at the HOF. Sound like someone we know? Certainly doesn't sound like Kobe or Pierce. But if you think Maggette was as good as those guys, then that is certainly a hot take.

Yet he was still one of the better scorers in the league.

Your comprehension must suck. I quite clearly said he was on their level in terms of generating free throws. That is provably true. But go ahead, keep trying to misrepresent what I say. It's certainly helping your case

[KungPoweChicken]

The team would likely be better. Hayward is awful. I'm not sure why Celtics fans were predicting All NBA/All Star status from a guy who had one all-star appearance in his career. I would give two future first round picks to dump him. Easy decision.

Good thing you're not the GM.

Yep! I especially love how he glosses over 3 years of roughly 20/5/4 production

Many bad players have put up numbers on bad teams.

LOL. How many 'bad' players have put up 20/5/4 over a 229 game span, including averaging 25/4/4 against the eventual champions?

Corey Maggette 2007 to 2010.

You mean the same guy who had already put up 2 seasons of scoring over 20PPG? Try again

What are you saying? You're not making any sense. Elaborate.

Corey Maggette already had proven to be one of the better scorers in the NBA. He was on the same level as Kobe and PP in terms of generating free throws. And he averaged 19.5PPG over a 7 year span. He's not a bad player by any means.

He made the playoffs once in his career, never made an All-Star game, and has a 0% chance at the HOF. Sound like someone we know? Certainly doesn't sound like Kobe or Pierce. But if you think Maggette was as good as those guys, then that is certainly a hot take.

Yet he was still one of the better scorers in the league.

Your comprehension must suck. I quite clearly said he was on their level in terms of generating free throws. That is provably true. But go ahead, keep trying to misrepresent what I say. It's certainly helping your case

Right. You're proving my point. He scored 20ppg. But he made the playoffs once, was a bad player, didn't help his team win, never made an All-Star game, and has a 0% chance at the HOF. What are you not understanding?

[gouki88]

The team would likely be better. Hayward is awful. I'm not sure why Celtics fans were predicting All NBA/All Star status from a guy who had one all-star appearance in his career. I would give two future first round picks to dump him. Easy decision.

Good thing you're not the GM.

Yep! I especially love how he glosses over 3 years of roughly 20/5/4 production

Many bad players have put up numbers on bad teams.

LOL. How many 'bad' players have put up 20/5/4 over a 229 game span, including averaging 25/4/4 against the eventual champions?

Corey Maggette 2007 to 2010.

You mean the same guy who had already put up 2 seasons of scoring over 20PPG? Try again

What are you saying? You're not making any sense. Elaborate.

Corey Maggette already had proven to be one of the better scorers in the NBA. He was on the same level as Kobe and PP in terms of generating free throws. And he averaged 19.5PPG over a 7 year span. He's not a bad player by any means.

He made the playoffs once in his career, never made an All-Star game, and has a 0% chance at the HOF. Sound like someone we know? Certainly doesn't sound like Kobe or Pierce. But if you think Maggette was as good as those guys, then that is certainly a hot take.

Yet he was still one of the better scorers in the league.

Your comprehension must suck. I quite clearly said he was on their level in terms of generating free throws. That is provably true. But go ahead, keep trying to misrepresent what I say. It's certainly helping your case

Right. You're proving my point. He scored 20ppg. But he made the playoffs once, was a bad player, didn't help his team win, never made an All-Star game, and has a 0% chance at the HOF. What are you not understanding?

Lol. I'm disagreeing with your whole premise that he's a bad player. Hayward is a much better playmaker and shooter than Maggette ever was, and in my opinion is a better defender.

It's also pretty hard to make the All-Star team when playing for that lowly Clippers team. Same reason Elton Brand only made it twice despite averaging 20-10-3-2.3-1 for his 5 year tenure there. He was a way better player than early  Yao, but that means absolutely nothing.

I guess I trust the talent evaluation of guys like DA and Brad more than some random poster on a forum. Weird

[KungPoweChicken]

The team would likely be better. Hayward is awful. I'm not sure why Celtics fans were predicting All NBA/All Star status from a guy who had one all-star appearance in his career. I would give two future first round picks to dump him. Easy decision.

Good thing you're not the GM.

Yep! I especially love how he glosses over 3 years of roughly 20/5/4 production

Many bad players have put up numbers on bad teams.

LOL. How many 'bad' players have put up 20/5/4 over a 229 game span, including averaging 25/4/4 against the eventual champions?

Corey Maggette 2007 to 2010.

You mean the same guy who had already put up 2 seasons of scoring over 20PPG? Try again

What are you saying? You're not making any sense. Elaborate.

Corey Maggette already had proven to be one of the better scorers in the NBA. He was on the same level as Kobe and PP in terms of generating free throws. And he averaged 19.5PPG over a 7 year span. He's not a bad player by any means.

He made the playoffs once in his career, never made an All-Star game, and has a 0% chance at the HOF. Sound like someone we know? Certainly doesn't sound like Kobe or Pierce. But if you think Maggette was as good as those guys, then that is certainly a hot take.

Yet he was still one of the better scorers in the league.

Your comprehension must suck. I quite clearly said he was on their level in terms of generating free throws. That is provably true. But go ahead, keep trying to misrepresent what I say. It's certainly helping your case

Right. You're proving my point. He scored 20ppg. But he made the playoffs once, was a bad player, didn't help his team win, never made an All-Star game, and has a 0% chance at the HOF. What are you not understanding?

Lol. I'm disagreeing with your whole premise that he's a bad player. Hayward is a much better playmaker and shooter than Maggette ever was, and in my opinion is a better defender.

It's also pretty hard to make the All-Star team when playing for that lowly Clippers team. Same reason Elton Brand only made it twice despite averaging 20-10-3-2.3-1 for his 5 year tenure there. He was a way better player than early  Yao, but that means absolutely nothing.

I guess I trust the talent evaluation of guys like DA and Brad more than some random poster on a forum. Weird

He was not a better player than Yao. Not even close. Yao Ming was a career 60% TS and averaged 2bpg. Absolutely ridiculous. If he stayed healthy, top five center of all time.

[LilRip]

Gordon Hayward has games where he looks extremely tentative out there. Looking to pass on his drives with practically zero threat to score. Times like those make me think I’d rather have Brad Wanamaker on the floor

[10610786d]

The team would likely be better. Hayward is awful. I'm not sure why Celtics fans were predicting All NBA/All Star status from a guy who had one all-star appearance in his career. I would give two future first round picks to dump him. Easy decision.

Good thing you're not the GM.

Yep! I especially love how he glosses over 3 years of roughly 20/5/4 production

Many bad players have put up numbers on bad teams.

Yes. But those Utah teams made the playoffs and were on the upper echelon of the strong Western Conference.

No. In that three year stretch of Hayward putting up "20/5/5" Utah made the playoffs once.

Fair enough to this. Recency bias and the general trajectory (I believe in the 2015-16 season they were pegged as a good young team on the cusp of the playoffs) made me think that Jazz team was better than it actually was.

That said, Hayward's playmaking has to be better than Magette's right... even counting stats show that Hayward was a better playmaker

[Chris22]

Gordon Hayward has games where he looks extremely tentative out there. Looking to pass on his drives with practically zero threat to score. Times like those make me think I’d rather have Brad Wanamaker on the floor

I would rather have Wanamaker running the second unit over Rozier or Hayward.

At least Wanamaker can hit his threes.

[KungPoweChicken]

The team would likely be better. Hayward is awful. I'm not sure why Celtics fans were predicting All NBA/All Star status from a guy who had one all-star appearance in his career. I would give two future first round picks to dump him. Easy decision.

Good thing you're not the GM.

Yep! I especially love how he glosses over 3 years of roughly 20/5/4 production

Many bad players have put up numbers on bad teams.

Yes. But those Utah teams made the playoffs and were on the upper echelon of the strong Western Conference.

No. In that three year stretch of Hayward putting up "20/5/5" Utah made the playoffs once.

Fair enough to this. Recency bias and the general trajectory (I believe in the 2015-16 season they were pegged as a good young team on the cusp of the playoffs) made me think that Jazz team was better than it actually was.

That said, Hayward's playmaking has to be better than Magette's right... even counting stats show that Hayward was a better playmaker

Jamal Mashburn: 2000 to 2003.