Author Topic: Nike and Kaepernick  (Read 7182 times)

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Nike and Kaepernick
« on: September 06, 2018, 10:16:49 PM »

Offline JSD

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The commercial itself was good, it’s just the messenger I have a problem with. Kap pushes a false narrative that he cannot even properly articulate, and he causes more harm than good by creating a disconnect between police and the community they’re trying their hardest to keep safe. This climate has also caused some officers to hesitate, and it’s cost them their life. Take what happened to Weymouth Officer Michael Chesna, just a few months ago, as an example. That said, Kap has every right to speak out on a subject despite his ignorance, while the NFL, a private company, has every right to disapprove and disassociate themselves from him and that message. That’s freedom. Also, Kap was not doing this when he was on top, he began this action after he was benched. So I find his “sacrifice” a little disingenuous.

As far as how I feel about Nike’s decision, I personally will not tear off my patches or burn my sneakers, but I would be lying if I said this will not influence my future sneaker purchasing decisions. Hell, I have LeBron kicks I’ll never wear or buy again because he went the the Lakers. I’m curious if it affects Nike’s business going forward. Alienating, say, half of half the population, and that’s modest, will result in lower revenues and stock prices.  The marketing team took a chance with this and could pay dearly. My instincts tell me it was bad move. Just look at the ratings crash the NFL suffered after the kneeling, obviously there were other variables but the “disrespect” was definitely a factor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mreQsQrDF-A
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 10:34:53 PM by JSD »

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2018, 10:24:36 PM »

Offline miraclejohan

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Heck, maybe their business goes up? My instincts tell me it was bad move. Just look at the ratings crash the NFL suffered after the kneeling, obviously there were other variables but the “disrespect” was definitely a factor.

I'm staying away from too much personal back and forth on purpose in order to drive conversation, but do you think the dip in ratings had to do with the fact that the "protests" were happening or the fact that the NFL was trying to strongarm the protestors into silence/non-action? I tend to the latter.

Also, millenials be whatever they may be, but here's a direct consequence of Nike's actions: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nike-apos-controversial-kaepernick-ad-200800254.html

I tend to think that these 2 points put "momentum/support" on Nike's side.  It's also telling that the NFL cam out with a psuedo-stance that supports Kap's choice/position here.  They know they can't even compete with Nike.  IMHO, anyway.

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Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2018, 10:26:34 PM »

Online Roy H.

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If this is what Nike thinks the consumer wants, more power to them.


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Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2018, 10:30:39 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
Nike just lost about $3.75 billion in market cap after announcing free agent NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick as the new face of its “Just Do It” ad campaign. It’s the 30th anniversary of the iconic TV and print spots.



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Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2018, 10:31:48 PM »

Offline JSD

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Heck, maybe their business goes up? My instincts tell me it was bad move. Just look at the ratings crash the NFL suffered after the kneeling, obviously there were other variables but the “disrespect” was definitely a factor.

I'm staying away from too much personal back and forth on purpose in order to drive conversation, but do you think the dip in ratings had to do with the fact that the "protests" were happening or the fact that the NFL was trying to strongarm the protestors into silence/non-action? I tend to the latter.


I think the anthem protest was a big factor, and so doesn't a league like the NBA, who saw what was happening in the NFL and proceeded to reinforce their own standing rule.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/09/29/nba-memo-makes-clear-players-and-coaches-must-stand-for-national-anthem/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4fb993685928



Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2018, 10:36:52 PM »

Online IDreamCeltics

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It's still strange to me that people who have no problem ignoring police brutality and systemic racism can't ignore someone quietly kneeling during the anthem.

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2018, 10:51:12 PM »

Offline miraclejohan

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Thanks Roy.  the rest of that article (https://morningconsult.com/form/nike-kaepernick-report/) is interesting too, with only 1/3 of responders having an opinion that that ad was "inappropriate" and 32% not seeing the ad as related to Kap support at all (publicity stunt/no opinion).  IMO Nike is big enough to withstand these "hits" or dips....they've made back 1/3 of what they lost initially in 2 days and they are a brand that reaches beyond the NFL.

JSD: I think the NBA's response was made possible by their history of engaging with players and global cultures in the first place.  I'm biased, but I think the NFL had some deposits in the emotional bank accounts of their players when they said: you'll stand.  They also said "wear a tshirt, draw on your shoes, link arms during the anthem...do whatever you want, but please don't make this about standing because we are not the NFL.  And they aren't.

IDreamCeltics: I also agree, espeiclaly considering how much else is ignored during the anthem.  It's the narrative that I'm avoiding to try talking about leagues and corporations without personal politics clouding the convo, no matter how prevelent they are.

I'll leave it there for now.  ;)
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Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2018, 11:06:25 PM »

Offline Erik

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It's still strange to me that people who have no problem ignoring police brutality and systemic racism can't ignore someone quietly kneeling during the anthem.

Once again, you and all of the others who believe in systemic racism can kneel to the anthem and criticize America all you want in your own home or a public place. That’s your first amendment right. The moment you bring it to your work place and cost your employers money, don’t be surprised if they do something strange... like fire you. You have no first amendment right in someone else’s private property. The people who tune into the NFL games want to watch football not have politics shoved down their throats.

I’m also curious to read your evidence of systemic racism in America... in 2018. I’m hoping it’s more than “I see white cops shooting black people on CNN.” Systemic racism would show up resoundingly  in the data.

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2018, 11:18:54 PM »

Offline miraclejohan

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It's still strange to me that people who have no problem ignoring police brutality and systemic racism can't ignore someone quietly kneeling during the anthem.

Once again, you and all of the others who believe in systemic racism can kneel to the anthem and criticize America all you want in your own home or a public place. That’s your first amendment right. The moment you bring it to your work place and cost your employers money, don’t be surprised if they do something strange... like fire you. You have no first amendment right in someone else’s private property. The people who tune into the NFL games want to watch football not have politics shoved down their throats.

I’m also curious to read your evidence of systemic racism in America... in 2018. I’m hoping it’s more than “I see white cops shooting black people on CNN.” Systemic racism would show up resoundingly  in the data.

You’ve got 2 points here:

1. The nfl as an employer can do what they choose. I agree with you and am still disappointed that they chose how they did. Just like I was disappointed when Andre the Giant turned against hulk hogan, but real.

2. You seem to require evidence that systemic racism exists. A. Can you offer a basis for your belief here or are you putting burden of proof on the plaintiff (no judgement just looking for a starting point) and B. What news sources am I allowed to use (again, to save the trouble of bantering over what constitute facts).

Happy to discuss. 
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Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2018, 11:22:09 PM »

Offline JSD

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JSD: I think the NBA's response was made possible by their history of engaging with players and global cultures in the first place.  I'm biased, but I think the NFL had some deposits in the emotional bank accounts of their players when they said: you'll stand.  They also said "wear a tshirt, draw on your shoes, link arms during the anthem...do whatever you want, but please don't make this about standing because we are not the NFL.  And they aren't.


I agree. The NBA and their players seem organized and have done a better job at coordinating efforts to make the league a global success. Today the dress code put in place a few years back would have been lambasted as racist by some on platforms like Twitter. How did the players react? They decided to become the best dressed people on earth. So I understand your point, there is better engagement in the NBA and everybody works together to make money. It is a good business.

But as you put it, the NBA drew a line at standing. The NBA recognized the importance of not alienating a good portion of their audience, after observing the NFL's problems, with not standing identified as a substantial factor in the dip. Respectfully, I actually think you helped make my case in a way. NBA to players: "Do whatever, just, just, for the love of money, just stand!" That's my takeaway.

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2018, 11:30:26 PM »

Offline miraclejohan

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JSD: I think the NBA's response was made possible by their history of engaging with players and global cultures in the first place.  I'm biased, but I think the NFL had some deposits in the emotional bank accounts of their players when they said: you'll stand.  They also said "wear a tshirt, draw on your shoes, link arms during the anthem...do whatever you want, but please don't make this about standing because we are not the NFL.  And they aren't.


I agree. The NBA and their players seem organized and have done a better job at coordinating efforts to make the league a global success. Today the dress code put in place a few years back would have been lambasted as racist by some on platforms like Twitter. How did the players react? They decided to become the best dressed people on earth. So I understand your point, there is better engagement in the NBA and everybody works together to make money. It is a good business.

But as you put it, the NBA drew a line at standing. The NBA recognized the importance of not alienating a good portion of their audience, after observing the NFL's problems, with not standing identified as a substantial factor in the dip. Respectfully, I actually think you helped make my case in a way. NBA to players: "Do whatever, just, just, for the love of money, just stand!" That's my takeaway.

Respectfully disagree. The NFL didn’t say “do anything else but just stand,” they said “stand to show respect and honor the flag and the soldiers who fight to defend it.” It’s the opposite; nba devalued the act of standing by allowing other forms of expression during the anthem and on court activities while the nfl dictated exactly what the act of standing was supposed to mean while simultaneously removing the players’ voice and expression of that meaning.

I do agree with the nba dress code being problematic if it happened today. And cheers for the creativity the players and the league embraced with personal expression within that dress Code. A microcosm of the standing/kneeling issue imo.
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Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2018, 11:36:27 PM »

Offline bdm860

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but I would be lying if I said this will not influence my future sneaker purchasing decisions

I love when people vote with their wallets, best thing people can do.  Wish more people did it.

But I always find it odd when it happens.

Nike has used sweatshop labor for years.  You're okay supporting them with that, but not this? 

Nike avoids paying billions in US taxes.   You're okay supporting them with that, but not this?

« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 11:50:43 PM by bdm860 »

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Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2018, 12:01:10 AM »

Online gouki88

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but I would be lying if I said this will not influence my future sneaker purchasing decisions

I love when people vote with their wallets, best thing people can do.  Wish more people did it.

But I always find it odd when it happens.

Nike has used sweatshop labor for years.  You're okay supporting them with that, but not this? 

Nike avoids paying billions in US taxes.   You're okay supporting them with that, but not this?
The sweatshop one is the big one for me. Obviously it's really hard to avoid shoes, or clothing in general, that haven't been produced or at least been a part of some sort of exploitation of workers, but the way Nike handled that is pretty dodgy for me.

It also highlights a pretty funny hypocrisy. They're all for social justice and that sort of thing when it benefits them (or at least, they think it will benefit them) - however, they're just as willing to exploit workers. Reminds me of Beyonce utilising sweatshops (if I recall correctly)

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2018, 01:18:39 AM »

Offline JSD

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but I would be lying if I said this will not influence my future sneaker purchasing decisions

I love when people vote with their wallets, best thing people can do.  Wish more people did it.

But I always find it odd when it happens.

Nike has used sweatshop labor for years.  You're okay supporting them with that, but not this? 

Nike avoids paying billions in US taxes.   You're okay supporting them with that, but not this?

I probably look at "sweatshops" a little differently than most, but I do agree that poverty in the developing world and some of the conditions people choose to work in is upsetting. People, even when making 3-7 times more, on average, than their fellow countrymen, should still be treated with dignity and respect. As far as taxes, the less the better. The corporate income tax rate, especially when people have to pay income tax, is way too high. So I think Nike has acted logically for a company trying to bring a good product to market, at an affordable price, while still turning a profit.

Just to be clear, I'm not over here calling for a boycott or anything like that. I'm just saying that when it's time for me to pick up a new pair of sneakers, I probably won't be buying Nike. To me they are supporting anti-police rhetoric that is getting people killed.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 01:25:15 AM by JSD »

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2018, 01:35:03 AM »

Offline bdm860

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This reminds me of the Latrell Sprewell commercial that came out when he returned to the league after being suspended for a year for choking his coach.

I remember watching TV with my dad when that commercial came on.  My dad was disgusted by it, he said, "I don't know what company that is, but I will never buy their products."  While high school me thought that was one of the coolest commercials ever.  Still think it's pretty cool.  I'm pretty sure I have the full page print ad version of it that I pulled out of a magazine hanging on my old bedroom wall at my parents house.


I don't think Nike is taking a real stand here, they're just making a business decision.  They may lose a customer or two, but hoping they'll gain even more.  Worked for And1 almost 20 years ago with me.  My dad never bought any And1 products to begin with, while I just thought the brand was even cooler now (though nothing helped as much as the Skip tape).

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