Author Topic: Nike and Kaepernick  (Read 7177 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2018, 01:49:12 AM »

Offline JSD

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10393
  • Tommy Points: 1229
Yeah I disagree, I think this is Nike weighing in on a culture war that has really divided the country. Maybe that in itself is a business decision? I'm not sure, but I think it is a poor decision. I know plenty of those in law Enforcement, many of whom are athletes, who will no longer be buying their products. I realize that is anecdotal, but I think it will manifest itself in real profit losses over the course of time as I can imagine many in the law enforcement community will be going elsewhere for their sneakers.

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2018, 02:04:19 AM »

Offline The_Truth

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 368
  • Tommy Points: 28
Can we go back to more basketball related topics?

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2018, 02:25:04 AM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8827
  • Tommy Points: 1035
Yeah I disagree, I think this is Nike weighing in on a culture war that has really divided the country. Maybe that in itself is a business decision? I'm not sure, but I think it is a poor decision. I know plenty of those in law Enforcement, many of whom are athletes, who will no longer be buying their products. I realize that is anecdotal, but I think it will manifest itself in real profit losses over the course of time as I can imagine many in the law enforcement community will be going elsewhere for their sneakers.

Nike is playing the long game...law enforcement is but a minority of the market for Nike products. You must study the demographic changes in the country to understand  Nike's move.

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2018, 02:54:49 AM »

Offline JSD

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10393
  • Tommy Points: 1229
Can we go back to more basketball related topics?

Posters have the option to not see current events if they choose. Contact a Moderator

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2018, 02:59:57 AM »

Offline JSD

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10393
  • Tommy Points: 1229
Yeah I disagree, I think this is Nike weighing in on a culture war that has really divided the country. Maybe that in itself is a business decision? I'm not sure, but I think it is a poor decision. I know plenty of those in law Enforcement, many of whom are athletes, who will no longer be buying their products. I realize that is anecdotal, but I think it will manifest itself in real profit losses over the course of time as I can imagine many in the law enforcement community will be going elsewhere for their sneakers.

Nike is playing the long game...law enforcement is but a minority of the market for Nike products. You must study the demographic changes in the country to understand  Nike's move.

I understand LE is small in the grand scheme. I just meant it as one of many segments of the population. Roy H. posted some interesting graphs, including much larger segments, which show Nike favorability after this.

America is becoming more diverse, so supporting someone who pushes anti police sentiment is good for future business?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 03:19:33 AM by JSD »

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2018, 05:55:48 AM »

Online Celtics4ever

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16929
  • Tommy Points: 1115
If one peels off layers of the onion, Kapernick is not a good spokesperson.   I support his stance on police brutality, there should be none.   But he actually turned down, a contract offer to stay in NFL.  So he willingfully, decided not to play, while he talks about how the NFL screwed him over.  So fake.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2791321-john-elway-colin-kaepernick-had-his-chance-to-be-here-was-offered-contract

The left seems to love this move, I wonder if they forgot about all the sweatshops that Nike sacrifices human beings to make their shoes. 

Quote
I lived in a slum on the outskirts of Jakarta, attempting to survive on the Nike workers wage at the time ó $1.25 a day. I lost 25lbs in a month and heard the heart-wrenching stories of the human beings whose dignity is ground down as they grind out millions of pairs of Nikes a month.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/9/4/1793129/-Colin-Kaepernick-Nike-s-Sweatshops

The NFL did not do well after all the kneeing, though some will try to tell you it's the concussions but that is a lie.  Nike is not doing well after this move.

Quote
Nike is playing the long game...law enforcement is but a minority of the market for Nike products. You must study the demographic changes in the country to understand  Nike's move.

The sweatshops are part of their long game, too.  Do you like that?   I don't see tons of Hispanics sporting nikes, so that kind of blows up your theory.

I have not bought anything from them for years, nor will I ever.   There were a ton of reasons to boycott prior to this move.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 06:01:27 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2018, 06:26:10 AM »

Offline CelticD

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1188
  • Tommy Points: 136
  • Forever LIT
I'd rather this kind of discord. If someone is going to disagree with Kap, don't let it be because you think he's disrespecting the flag, let it be because you either don't agree with his actual message, or you feel as if he doesn't articulate it well enough for it be valid.

As far as the commercial goes, it's pretty vanilla. Nothing really controversial there, unless you just hate athletes. I don't view Nike any differently than before. They feel like they can turn a profit having Kap as a brand ambassador so they wrote him a check. I'm just glad Kap is getting paid. Get that bag Kaptain.

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2018, 07:59:43 AM »

Offline Forza Juventus

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 964
  • Tommy Points: 70
God Bless Colin Kaepernick. God Bless Nike.
Azzurri | Juventus | Boston Celtics | Kentucky Basketball

"All the negativity thatís on Celticsblog sucks. Iíve been around when Kyrie Irving was criticized. Iíve been around when Al Horford was insulted. And it stinks. It makes the greatest team, greatest fans in the world, lousy."

Celticsblog=sports radio

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2018, 09:36:59 AM »

Offline Erik

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 929
  • Tommy Points: 154
  • The voice of reason
It's still strange to me that people who have no problem ignoring police brutality and systemic racism can't ignore someone quietly kneeling during the anthem.

Once again, you and all of the others who believe in systemic racism can kneel to the anthem and criticize America all you want in your own home or a public place. Thatís your first amendment right. The moment you bring it to your work place and cost your employers money, donít be surprised if they do something strange... like fire you. You have no first amendment right in someone elseís private property. The people who tune into the NFL games want to watch football not have politics shoved down their throats.

Iím also curious to read your evidence of systemic racism in America... in 2018. Iím hoping itís more than ďI see white cops shooting black people on CNN.Ē Systemic racism would show up resoundingly  in the data.

Youíve got 2 points here:

1. The nfl as an employer can do what they choose. I agree with you and am still disappointed that they chose how they did. Just like I was disappointed when Andre the Giant turned against hulk hogan, but real.

2. You seem to require evidence that systemic racism exists. A. Can you offer a basis for your belief here or are you putting burden of proof on the plaintiff (no judgement just looking for a starting point) and B. What news sources am I allowed to use (again, to save the trouble of bantering over what constitute facts).

Happy to discuss.

Kaepernick cost the NFL a lot of money. At the end of the day it's a business. I dont blame them at all.

As for point 2, yes the burden of proof is on you. The laws state that minorities are equal to all other races, and as a privileged class of people, they are given additional benefits. Please point to me evidence of systemic racism in America. Not just that billy bob in Arkansas said the n word. I want proof that America as a country mistreats minorities. Cite any sources youd like as long as theyre backed by a credible study (preferably from an accredited university). As a minority myself, i dont believe that such a study exists but I'd like to know if im wrong.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 09:49:27 AM by Erik »

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2018, 10:14:15 AM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24559
  • Tommy Points: 1106
  • What a Pub Should Be
I just had to laugh at all the triggered MAGAs burning & cutting up Nike gear.

That was golden & sad at the same time.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2018, 10:19:43 AM »

Offline chicagoceltic

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 675
  • Tommy Points: 142
It's still strange to me that people who have no problem ignoring police brutality and systemic racism can't ignore someone quietly kneeling during the anthem.

Once again, you and all of the others who believe in systemic racism can kneel to the anthem and criticize America all you want in your own home or a public place. Thatís your first amendment right. The moment you bring it to your work place and cost your employers money, donít be surprised if they do something strange... like fire you. You have no first amendment right in someone elseís private property. The people who tune into the NFL games want to watch football not have politics shoved down their throats.

Iím also curious to read your evidence of systemic racism in America... in 2018. Iím hoping itís more than ďI see white cops shooting black people on CNN.Ē Systemic racism would show up resoundingly  in the data.

Youíve got 2 points here:

1. The nfl as an employer can do what they choose. I agree with you and am still disappointed that they chose how they did. Just like I was disappointed when Andre the Giant turned against hulk hogan, but real.

2. You seem to require evidence that systemic racism exists. A. Can you offer a basis for your belief here or are you putting burden of proof on the plaintiff (no judgement just looking for a starting point) and B. What news sources am I allowed to use (again, to save the trouble of bantering over what constitute facts).

Happy to discuss.

Kaepernick cost the NFL a lot of money. At the end of the day it's a business. I dont blame them at all.

As for point 2, yes the burden of proof is on you. The laws state that minorities are equal to all other races, and as a privileged class of people, they are given additional benefits. Please point to me evidence of systemic racism in America. Not just that billy bob in Arkansas said the n word. I want proof that America as a country mistreats minorities. Cite any sources youd like as long as theyre backed by a credible study (preferably from an accredited university). As a minority myself, i dont believe that such a study exists but I'd like to know if im wrong.
I may be reading this so I have to ask, are you saying that minorities are privileged and receive extra benefits? 
Pub Draft

Sam N Ella's

At the Bar: The Most Interesting Man in the World
At the Door:  Hugh Hefner
On Stage:  O.A.R., Louis C.K., EDGAR! Special Drinks:  Irish Car Bomb, Martinis On Tap: Lite, Beamish, 3 Floyds Seasonal, Chimay Grand Reserve, Spotted Cow

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2018, 10:35:03 AM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

  • NCE
  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 226
  • Tommy Points: 33
but I would be lying if I said this will not influence my future sneaker purchasing decisions

I love when people vote with their wallets, best thing people can do.  Wish more people did it.

But I always find it odd when it happens.

Nike has used sweatshop labor for years.  You're okay supporting them with that, but not this? 

Nike avoids paying billions in US taxes.   You're okay supporting them with that, but not this?

I probably look at "sweatshops" a little differently than most, but I do agree that poverty in the developing world and some of the conditions people choose to work in is upsetting. People, even when making 3-7 times more, on average, than their fellow countrymen, should still be treated with dignity and respect. As far as taxes, the less the better. The corporate income tax rate, especially when people have to pay income tax, is way too high. So I think Nike has acted logically for a company trying to bring a good product to market, at an affordable price, while still turning a profit.

Just to be clear, I'm not over here calling for a boycott or anything like that. I'm just saying that when it's time for me to pick up a new pair of sneakers, I probably won't be buying Nike. To me they are supporting anti-police rhetoric that is getting people killed.

Interesting phrasing! Those silly sweatshop workers, working at sweatshops when they could simply find another less exploitative no-skills-no-training job in a third world country
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 10:41:41 AM by TomHeinsohn »

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2018, 10:37:13 AM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

  • NCE
  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 226
  • Tommy Points: 33
Systemic racism and U.S. health care, from the journal of social science and medicine:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953613005121

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2018, 10:46:19 AM »

Offline miraclejohan

  • Gordon Hayward
  • Posts: 447
  • Tommy Points: 82
  • Green 18 or Burst
Kaepernick cost the NFL a lot of money. At the end of the day it's a business. I dont blame them at all.

As for point 2, yes the burden of proof is on you. The laws state that minorities are equal to all other races, and as a privileged class of people, they are given additional benefits. Please point to me evidence of systemic racism in America. Not just that billy bob in Arkansas said the n word. I want proof that America as a country mistreats minorities. Cite any sources youd like as long as theyre backed by a credible study (preferably from an accredited university). As a minority myself, i dont believe that such a study exists but I'd like to know if im wrong.

Here's one study conducted by Harvard/Stanford/Census Bureau (couched in a NYT article) with some pretty compelling visual representations of the data: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html

Some highlights:

"If this inequality canít be explained by individual or household traits, much of what matters probably lies outside the home ó in surrounding neighborhoods, in the economy and in a society that views black boys differently from white boys, and even from black girls."

"Even without this data, the people who worked on that project, he said, believed that individual and structural racism targeted black men in ways that required policies devised specifically for them." 

- i.e. the "privileged class of people, they are given additional benefits" you mentioned exist largely to combat the systemic racism you feel doesn't exist.

This was just one study I found.  Holler if you want to discuss or would like more. I'm curious in your response to this study.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 10:52:05 AM by miraclejohan »
Green 17 vol. 1-4  available here: https://miraclejohan.bandcamp.com/

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2018, 11:11:35 AM »

Offline Erik

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 929
  • Tommy Points: 154
  • The voice of reason
It's still strange to me that people who have no problem ignoring police brutality and systemic racism can't ignore someone quietly kneeling during the anthem.

Once again, you and all of the others who believe in systemic racism can kneel to the anthem and criticize America all you want in your own home or a public place. Thatís your first amendment right. The moment you bring it to your work place and cost your employers money, donít be surprised if they do something strange... like fire you. You have no first amendment right in someone elseís private property. The people who tune into the NFL games want to watch football not have politics shoved down their throats.

Iím also curious to read your evidence of systemic racism in America... in 2018. Iím hoping itís more than ďI see white cops shooting black people on CNN.Ē Systemic racism would show up resoundingly  in the data.

Youíve got 2 points here:

1. The nfl as an employer can do what they choose. I agree with you and am still disappointed that they chose how they did. Just like I was disappointed when Andre the Giant turned against hulk hogan, but real.

2. You seem to require evidence that systemic racism exists. A. Can you offer a basis for your belief here or are you putting burden of proof on the plaintiff (no judgement just looking for a starting point) and B. What news sources am I allowed to use (again, to save the trouble of bantering over what constitute facts).

Happy to discuss.

Kaepernick cost the NFL a lot of money. At the end of the day it's a business. I dont blame them at all.

As for point 2, yes the burden of proof is on you. The laws state that minorities are equal to all other races, and as a privileged class of people, they are given additional benefits. Please point to me evidence of systemic racism in America. Not just that billy bob in Arkansas said the n word. I want proof that America as a country mistreats minorities. Cite any sources youd like as long as theyre backed by a credible study (preferably from an accredited university). As a minority myself, i dont believe that such a study exists but I'd like to know if im wrong.
I may be reading this so I have to ask, are you saying that minorities are privileged and receive extra benefits?

Legally, yes.

Minorities are a protected class so they receive additional legal protections and benefits. Work, education, lending, hate crimes, etc.


Quote from: miraclejohan link=topic=97628.msg2555976#msg2555976

Here's one study conducted by Harvard/Stanford/Census Bureau (couched in a NYT article) with some pretty compelling visual representations of the data: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/19/upshot/race-class-white-and-black-men.html

Some highlights:

"If this inequality canít be explained by individual or household traits, much of what matters probably lies outside the home ó in surrounding neighborhoods, in the economy and in a society that views black boys differently from white boys, and even from black girls."

"Even without this data, the people who worked on that project, he said, believed that individual and structural racism targeted black men in ways that required policies devised specifically for them." 

- i.e. the "privileged class of people, they are given additional benefits" you mentioned exist largely to combat the systemic racism you feel doesn't exist.

This was just one study I found.  Holler if you want to discuss or would like more. I'm curious in your response to this study.

I'll sit down and read the full link tonight, but lets say even if the premise is true, doesn't the fact that America is protecting minorities prove that systemic racism doesnt exist?

I'd like to keep this dicussion focused on how the US government discriminates against minorities. I fully understand that there are hateful people (on both sides, frankly), but how is America systemically racist in 2018?

About the first paragraph, the article seems to be assuming that because blacks earn less than whites of similar parental background the cause has to be racism. There are numerous studies that show that asians make more than whites. Is there racism towards whites by asians? I believe that culture and upbrining has a lot to do with children's success. Just because your parents have the same income as your neighbors parents doesnt mean that you are being raised as well. Is there a study in which a black child is raised by white parents and vice versa to remove all cultural biases?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 11:37:41 AM by Erik »

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required