Author Topic: Nike and Kaepernick  (Read 8220 times)

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Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #75 on: September 08, 2018, 10:23:07 AM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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This is purely a big, rebranding effort by Nike..their goal and target are Millennials and the next generation behind them..they are thinking big picture and long term with this. They know who this will resonate with and that is exactly what they are shooting for.

They could care less about the short term impact of the older generation who leans one way buying their product or not.

Big Picture at play here. Kudos for them for having the balls to make a big decision like this.

I dont buy Nike anything before and probably wont after. I use different brand for my running shoes.

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #76 on: September 08, 2018, 10:37:20 AM »

Offline Eja117

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I respect the heck out of Kap and Muhammad Ali and MLK and police and soldiers and I like what Nike did. I like the way Kap is sticking it to the man.

What I'm annoyed about is that when the NCAA clearly went after Christian students and said you couldn't do the Tebow thing any more and put Bible verses on your eye black or draw attention to yourself with praying nobody made a peep. It's just hypocrisy based on political correctness. They should both be able to express their beliefs and it shouldn't cost them their jobs.

And the hypocrisy runs deep on both sides. I was joking with one of my most liberal friends the other day what would conservative Christians do if a conservative Christian player took a knee to protest gay marriage and abortion. They'd be pretty conflicted, right?  And he said "Depends. A white Christian athlete or a black one?"     Gulp. Darn. I think he's got me there.

I try to be an optimist. I see this all as a good thing. Although I do wish Kap wouldn't wear the darn Che Guevara T shirt. I mean cmon man

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #77 on: September 08, 2018, 10:51:33 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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This is a troubling discussion.  To put anyone in the position— on a blog thread — to either prove or disprove the existence of systemic, or institutional, racism is a bit unfair.   Disparate “opinions” on the current state of racism are thoroughly driven by ones own biases on the subject which are hatched by our own personal histories and reinforced by the company we keep, by our family’s/communty’s values and belief systems, and by the “news” outlets or reports we choose to believe.  Also, we are driven by and, and have our biases confirmed by, the “data” we choose to accept and the anecdotes we select as evidence.

Here’s an anecdote:  My best friend growing had a father who inherited 2 apartment buildings in downtown Boston.  An unexpected and ridiculous bit of good fortune for a very middle class family (eventually sold the buildings for > $20 million).   My friends dad became a landlord and my friend himself, after college and marriage, moved into one of the apartments and managed the properties for his father.   My friend collected rents and rented apartments- getting calls regularly from prospective renters.   My friend shared one rule, the only set rule, he had (was instructed to have) when screening possible renters on the phone: “If they sound Black, tell them there’s no vacancy”.

I found that to be pretty remarkable and pretty solid evidence of racist policy — note this is through the 80’s and 90’s.   But truly an anecdote, only reinforced when I shared that story at 2 separate times with other friends who had become urban landlords. Their responses: “I do the same thing”.

I don’t bring up the above as proof of systemic racism — only proof of anecdotal racism.  But this story, snd others that I’ve experienced, have contributed to shaping my opinon on the existence of institutional racism — and my belief that it plays a role in both white and black reactions — ESPECIALLY in times of stress.

But I can’t prove it is a present factor any more than someone here can prove it isn’t. What I’d implore, is openness to different points of view that are born of different life experiences. And also respect for fellow Americans when they say either that they have not experienced discrimination OR when they say they have.

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #78 on: September 08, 2018, 11:04:44 AM »

Offline greece666

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greece666,

What that I said is factually wrong? Nothing you posted seemed relevant to what I said. Workers in those factories make far more than people in their community working on a farm or at the market, to name a few available jobs.

Thanks for the reply JSD, appreciated. I bolded the parts that are wrong IMO.

Quote
The reason locals withstand and work in those conditions is because they are getting paid 5 times as much as their neighbor.

Where did you find that they get paid 5 times more than other employees? Nike has about 1 million workers in 785 countries factories, I am very skeptical of this number you give.

Quote
If I were to get $500,000 a year to work in a “sweatshop” I would probably do it for a few years and bank some money.

I bolded the wrong parts.

Edit in strikethrough
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 05:28:30 AM by greece666 »

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #79 on: September 08, 2018, 01:19:13 PM »

Offline Cman

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This is a troubling discussion.  To put anyone in the position— on a blog thread — to either prove or disprove the existence of systemic, or institutional, racism is a bit unfair.   Disparate “opinions” on the current state of racism are thoroughly driven by ones own biases on the subject which are hatched by our own personal histories and reinforced by the company we keep, by our family’s/communty’s values and belief systems, and by the “news” outlets or reports we choose to believe.  Also, we are driven by and, and have our biases confirmed by, the “data” we choose to accept and the anecdotes we select as evidence.

Here’s an anecdote:  My best friend growing had a father who inherited 2 apartment buildings in downtown Boston.  An unexpected and ridiculous bit of good fortune for a very middle class family (eventually sold the buildings for > $20 million).   My friends dad became a landlord and my friend himself, after college and marriage, moved into one of the apartments and managed the properties for his father.   My friend collected rents and rented apartments- getting calls regularly from prospective renters.   My friend shared one rule, the only set rule, he had (was instructed to have) when screening possible renters on the phone: “If they sound Black, tell them there’s no vacancy”.

I found that to be pretty remarkable and pretty solid evidence of racist policy — note this is through the 80’s and 90’s.   But truly an anecdote, only reinforced when I shared that story at 2 separate times with other friends who had become urban landlords. Their responses: “I do the same thing”.

I don’t bring up the above as proof of systemic racism — only proof of anecdotal racism.  But this story, snd others that I’ve experienced, have contributed to shaping my opinon on the existence of institutional racism — and my belief that it plays a role in both white and black reactions — ESPECIALLY in times of stress.

But I can’t prove it is a present factor any more than someone here can prove it isn’t. What I’d implore, is openness to different points of view that are born of different life experiences. And also respect for fellow Americans when they say either that they have not experienced discrimination OR when they say they have.

Very thoughtful post. I like seeing these on CB.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #80 on: September 08, 2018, 01:23:04 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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This is a troubling discussion.  To put anyone in the position— on a blog thread — to either prove or disprove the existence of systemic, or institutional, racism is a bit unfair.   Disparate “opinions” on the current state of racism are thoroughly driven by ones own biases on the subject which are hatched by our own personal histories and reinforced by the company we keep, by our family’s/communty’s values and belief systems, and by the “news” outlets or reports we choose to believe.  Also, we are driven by and, and have our biases confirmed by, the “data” we choose to accept and the anecdotes we select as evidence.

Here’s an anecdote:  My best friend growing had a father who inherited 2 apartment buildings in downtown Boston.  An unexpected and ridiculous bit of good fortune for a very middle class family (eventually sold the buildings for > $20 million).   My friends dad became a landlord and my friend himself, after college and marriage, moved into one of the apartments and managed the properties for his father.   My friend collected rents and rented apartments- getting calls regularly from prospective renters.   My friend shared one rule, the only set rule, he had (was instructed to have) when screening possible renters on the phone: “If they sound Black, tell them there’s no vacancy”.

I found that to be pretty remarkable and pretty solid evidence of racist policy — note this is through the 80’s and 90’s.   But truly an anecdote, only reinforced when I shared that story at 2 separate times with other friends who had become urban landlords. Their responses: “I do the same thing”.

I don’t bring up the above as proof of systemic racism — only proof of anecdotal racism.  But this story, snd others that I’ve experienced, have contributed to shaping my opinon on the existence of institutional racism — and my belief that it plays a role in both white and black reactions — ESPECIALLY in times of stress.

But I can’t prove it is a present factor any more than someone here can prove it isn’t. What I’d implore, is openness to different points of view that are born of different life experiences. And also respect for fellow Americans when they say either that they have not experienced discrimination OR when they say they have.

Very thoughtful post. I like seeing these on CB.

Agreed.
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Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #81 on: September 08, 2018, 01:52:51 PM »

Offline miraclejohan

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This is a troubling discussion.  To put anyone in the position— on a blog thread — to either prove or disprove the existence of systemic, or institutional, racism is a bit unfair.   Disparate “opinions” on the current state of racism are thoroughly driven by ones own biases on the subject which are hatched by our own personal histories and reinforced by the company we keep, by our family’s/communty’s values and belief systems, and by the “news” outlets or reports we choose to believe.  Also, we are driven by and, and have our biases confirmed by, the “data” we choose to accept and the anecdotes we select as evidence.

Here’s an anecdote:  My best friend growing had a father who inherited 2 apartment buildings in downtown Boston.  An unexpected and ridiculous bit of good fortune for a very middle class family (eventually sold the buildings for > $20 million).   My friends dad became a landlord and my friend himself, after college and marriage, moved into one of the apartments and managed the properties for his father.   My friend collected rents and rented apartments- getting calls regularly from prospective renters.   My friend shared one rule, the only set rule, he had (was instructed to have) when screening possible renters on the phone: “If they sound Black, tell them there’s no vacancy”.

I found that to be pretty remarkable and pretty solid evidence of racist policy — note this is through the 80’s and 90’s.   But truly an anecdote, only reinforced when I shared that story at 2 separate times with other friends who had become urban landlords. Their responses: “I do the same thing”.

I don’t bring up the above as proof of systemic racism — only proof of anecdotal racism.  But this story, snd others that I’ve experienced, have contributed to shaping my opinon on the existence of institutional racism — and my belief that it plays a role in both white and black reactions — ESPECIALLY in times of stress.

But I can’t prove it is a present factor any more than someone here can prove it isn’t. What I’d implore, is openness to different points of view that are born of different life experiences. And also respect for fellow Americans when they say either that they have not experienced discrimination OR when they say they have.

Very thoughtful post. I like seeing these on CB.

Agreed.

Triple agreed. I feel strongly that the need for proof that is somehow qualified and validated by all sides to reach a common agreement is part of the machine that keeps dividing the world, especially with the proliferation and availability of biased news sources. I appreciate the conversations that encourage expansion and understanding. Your post is a good example. Thank you.
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Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #82 on: September 08, 2018, 04:07:18 PM »

Offline JSD

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What happened in Ferguson was actually the epitome of falsehood reporting, as we saw in the case forensic evidence and Officer Wilson’s disposition. My point was about police no longer policing black communities the same way because of compliance issues and politics surrounding the current climate created by the major news networks. Nike has chose to support this distorted and unhealthy message that will lead to more innocent victims in every facet.


“Driving while black” do you have any actually data on that? You might find this study interesting: http://edition.cnn.com/2002/LAW/03/27/nj.speeding.study/index.html

Interesting article - thanks for posting. A small sample size with the NJ Turnpike but noted nonetheless.

I found this article during a search

Quote
The most common reason for contact with the police is being a driver in a traffic stop. In 2011, an estimated 42% of face-to-face contacts that U.S. residents had with police occurred for this reason. About half of all traffic stops that year resulted in a traffic ticket. Approximately 3% of all stopped drivers were searched by police during a traffic stop.

These findings are based on the Police-Public Contact Survey (PPCS), a BJS survey that interviews U.S. residents about their contacts with police during the previous 12 months. Persons who reported more than one instance of face-to-face contact during the year are asked to describe the most recent occurrence. The PPCS has been conducted about every three years since 1996.

Summary findings

An estimated 26.4 million persons age 16 or older indicated that their most recent contact with the police in 2011 was as a driver pulled over in a traffic stop. These drivers represented 12% of the nation's 212 million drivers.
A greater percentage of male drivers (12%) than female drivers (8%) were stopped by police during 2011. A higher percentage of black drivers (13%) than white (10%) and Hispanic (10%) drivers were stopped by police during 2011.
Stopped drivers reported speeding as the most common reason for being pulled over in 2011.
Approximately 80% of drivers pulled over by police in 2011 felt they had been stopped for a legitimate reason. In 2011, about 68% of black drivers believed police had a legitimate reason for stopping them compared to 84% of white and 74% of Hispanic drivers
.[/b]

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?tid=702&ty=tp



First highlighted part might be explained by what was found in the study I posted. Second study asks people how they feel, which I don’t put any stock in a study like that when it comes to police.

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #83 on: September 08, 2018, 04:10:47 PM »

Offline JSD

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greece666,

What that I said is factually wrong? Nothing you posted seemed relevant to what I said. Workers in those factories make far more than people in their community working on a farm or at the market, to name a few available jobs.

Thanks for the reply JSD, appreciated. I bolded the parts that are wrong IMO.

Quote
The reason locals withstand and work in those conditions is because they are getting paid 5 times as much as their neighbor.

Where did you find that they get paid 5 times more than other employees? Nike has about 1 million workers in 785 countries, I am very skeptical of this number you give.

Quote
If I were to get $500,000 a year to work in a “sweatshop” I would probably do it for a few years and bank some money.

I bolded the wrong parts.


You totally missed my point. People work in sweatshops because in most cases they make 5X as much money as they working other available jobs. So I applied that to my own situation


Here’s one source https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/international/sweatshops-make-poor-people-better-off?format=amp
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 05:39:22 PM by JSD »

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #84 on: September 09, 2018, 05:33:27 AM »

Offline Erik

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...Please point to me the specific reason why you believe that the system is rigged against black people. I have already cited several advantages that blacks have...I'l touch briefly on the major one: Affirmative Action.
We keep coming back to this, respectfully.  Chicken and egg, right?  Affirmative Action exists because somehow, somewhere along the way, minorities were at enough of a disadvantage when compared to white men that these policies and programs were created to attempt leveling the playing field.  I'm not debating whether or not these work or not.  I'm just saying that their existence in the first place establishes that the disadvantage existed/s.

...I can't take an article seriously that automatically jumps to racism when there are other factors that haven't been discussed: culture. Have you ever heard someone be referred to as "not black enough" by other blacks? What exactly does that mean?
Yes, and in this case I'd argue that "culture" is influenced by racism too, by reifying the stereotypes that different types of humans are"supposed" to strive towards.  Yes, there are cultural and economic influences of course, but even the phrase "not black enough" is a racially driven statement that THEN influences cultural actions.  Chicken or the egg, right?

...
In a society where there is no laws to punish different races (apartheid, Jim Crow America, etc.), free market capitalism will dictate that racism is bad. Those previous examples are ACTUAL examples of systemic racism. In South Africa during apartheid, blacks couldn't hold certain positions, legally. We have no such restrictions here. It's actually quite the opposite due to affirmative action.
I thought Affirmative Action doesn't work and is actually racist and creates enslaved minorities and keeps them poor (see your point below)...So maybe it's more alike than you think?  Maybe Affirmative Action is actually a contributor to the systemic racism that you are arguing against the existence of?

...There is a massive movement of Black conservatism underway in America and it's because more and more people are waking up to see that the ACTUAL racist policies are the social programs that America has created to enslave minorities to the state by keeping them poor and creating economic incentive (free ****) to voting Democrat forever.
I don't disagree with that. I also don't think there is a level playing field (speaking as a white man) so I'm not a fan of abolishing these programs.  Fixing them and readdressing factors such as we are discussion would go a long way in improving policies and programs.

This is a troubling discussion.  To put anyone in the position— on a blog thread — to either prove or disprove the existence of systemic, or institutional, racism is a bit unfair.   Disparate “opinions” on the current state of racism are thoroughly driven by ones own biases on the subject which are hatched by our own personal histories and reinforced by the company we keep, by our family’s/communty’s values and belief systems, and by the “news” outlets or reports we choose to believe.  Also, we are driven by and, and have our biases confirmed by, the “data” we choose to accept and the anecdotes we select as evidence.

Here’s an anecdote:  My best friend growing had a father who inherited 2 apartment buildings in downtown Boston.  An unexpected and ridiculous bit of good fortune for a very middle class family (eventually sold the buildings for > $20 million).   My friends dad became a landlord and my friend himself, after college and marriage, moved into one of the apartments and managed the properties for his father.   My friend collected rents and rented apartments- getting calls regularly from prospective renters.   My friend shared one rule, the only set rule, he had (was instructed to have) when screening possible renters on the phone: “If they sound Black, tell them there’s no vacancy”.

I found that to be pretty remarkable and pretty solid evidence of racist policy — note this is through the 80’s and 90’s.   But truly an anecdote, only reinforced when I shared that story at 2 separate times with other friends who had become urban landlords. Their responses: “I do the same thing”.

I don’t bring up the above as proof of systemic racism — only proof of anecdotal racism.  But this story, snd others that I’ve experienced, have contributed to shaping my opinon on the existence of institutional racism — and my belief that it plays a role in both white and black reactions — ESPECIALLY in times of stress.

But I can’t prove it is a present factor any more than someone here can prove it isn’t. What I’d implore, is openness to different points of view that are born of different life experiences. And also respect for fellow Americans when they say either that they have not experienced discrimination OR when they say they have.

Very thoughtful post. I like seeing these on CB.

Agreed.

Triple agreed. I feel strongly that the need for proof that is somehow qualified and validated by all sides to reach a common agreement is part of the machine that keeps dividing the world, especially with the proliferation and availability of biased news sources. I appreciate the conversations that encourage expansion and understanding. Your post is a good example. Thank you.

You don't seem to want to agree or disagree with anything other than systemic racism existing in US being a fact. The problem that you face is that you're taking a theory with no actual evidence and calling it fact. In your first post you and IDreamCeltics (by agreeing with him) state that it's unfortunate that people ignore systemic racism as if it's fact. I asked you for evidence of systemic racism and you immediately balked at the idea of having to give proof of such existence followed up by a study that shows that black people are more poor than white and asian people without giving any actual evidence on it being due to racism of any kind. There are so many factors to what contributes to a person's income level that to blindly state that "it's got to be racism" is disingenuous. In a truly capitalist society with equal opportunity, racist corporations, racist landlords like in Neurotic's example go out of business over time. You can't completely dismiss well qualified minorities just because they're minorities. Your competition will take them. There is nothing stopping a hard working minority in this country from achieving whatever he or she wants. You can literally be the president. I just about thought that this point was hammered in after Obama was elected (was a side hope of mine when I voted for him), but things just seemed to get even worse. The problem with affirmative action is that it inefficiently solves what capitalism already solves. You're forcing people to interact with minorities when capitalism ALREADY DOES IT. A capitalist creates a great idea by incorporating the best minds (regardless of skin color) and sells it to as many people as they can.

If you'd like to argue that the Black culture is the "systemic racism" that leads to Blacks earning less income than their White and Asian counterparts, I will agree with you because I have ACTUAL data to support it:
  • single parent households: 70% of black children are born to single mothers (national average is 40% which is ridiculously high as well in my opinion -- thank you social programs).
  • violent crime statistics: 13% of the population (blacks) commit 52.5% of the murders in the country
  • high school dropout rate: 60% graduation rate in Blacks vs 80% in Whites

Fixing these three things would, in my opinion, all but guarantee that this income inequality is corrected.

In conclusion, you should not get to call people racist without proof. It's a pretty serious allegation. I suggest that in the future if you are prepared to use "the R word" that you are adequately prepared to defend your position.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 05:41:07 AM by Erik »

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #85 on: September 09, 2018, 06:33:50 AM »

Offline greece666

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greece666,

What that I said is factually wrong? Nothing you posted seemed relevant to what I said. Workers in those factories make far more than people in their community working on a farm or at the market, to name a few available jobs.

Thanks for the reply JSD, appreciated. I bolded the parts that are wrong IMO.

Quote
The reason locals withstand and work in those conditions is because they are getting paid 5 times as much as their neighbor.

Where did you find that they get paid 5 times more than other employees? Nike has about 1 million workers in 785 countries, I am very skeptical of this number you give.

Quote
If I were to get $500,000 a year to work in a “sweatshop” I would probably do it for a few years and bank some money.

I bolded the wrong parts.


You totally missed my point. People work in sweatshops because in most cases they make 5X as much money as they working other available jobs. So I applied that to my own situation


Here’s one source https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/international/sweatshops-make-poor-people-better-off?format=amp

Thanks again for the reply JSD.

I didn't miss your point, I disagree with it. Again, where's the evidence that they make 5 times more?

Second, Adam Smith is a libertarian/neoliberal think tank and anything but a neutral source.


Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2018, 06:48:55 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Erik -  A response to your assumption related to my example. None of the people I spoke of went out of business.  All, in fact, thrived financially. As did, I think, the POTUS after his episode with discriminatory real estate practices early in his career.

I think your argument is that racism, while it existed in post-slavery America, is no longer a factor in 2018. No doubt you believe we’ve erased race as an impeding factor to success and that we have a very solid meritocracy operating here in America.... and I think  there is plenty of anecdotal support (eg our previous POTUS) for that viewpoint. 

The question really is: is race still a variable? if race could be isolated from other clearly relevant variables (e.g, work ethic, work history, attitude, skills, intelligence...) does it still have some influence on the actions/reactions/behaviors/decisions of people (especially those with power) in America today?  And then... if we think it does, is that influence something that continues, perhaps more subtlety and subconsciously than in years past, to effect the meritocracy in negative ways for people of color...generally. All the while with acknowledgement that the meritocracy affords far more opportunity for minority racial groups than ever before in our history.

Either way, “proof” is a nasty word in this conversation— my opinion of course.  Because while the more subtle, and sometimes not so subtle (if you believe race influences impulses in stressful police encounters) impacts of prejudice and bias may (or may not) exist,  requiring proof is disingenuous if the purpose is meaningful conversation. Neither side accepts the other’s data as valid or convincing. Requiring proof (in conversation) is an exercise in futility.  Better, in my opinion, to accept that our views are born of different life experiences that shape the different ways we interpret what is presented to us (including data).

My opinion is based on my experiences (many more than the anecdotes from my previous post), and my experience tells me that race has an embedded influence on me, and I believe does in others as well.  And this influence is exacerbated, sometimes dramatically and impulsively,, in times of high stress — and DOES continue to have a broad, systemic impact on the great meritocracy that we strive for in America.   It’s clear to me that merit has become a much more critical variable than race or gender than was the case years ago.  But we can disagree as to whether this evolving meritocracy is all the way there.  I am dubious of us having acheived the ultimate evolution of that meritocracy, which, for the purposes of conversation, I think is a viewpoint worthy of consideration.

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #87 on: September 09, 2018, 07:17:02 AM »

Offline Erik

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Erik -  A response to your assumption related to my example. None of the people I spoke of went out of business.  All, in fact, thrived financially. As did, I think, the POTUS after his episode with discriminatory real estate practices early in his career.

I think your argument is that racism, while it existed in post-slavery America, is no longer a factor in 2018. No doubt you believe we’ve erased race as an impeding factor to success and that we have a very solid meritocracy operating here in America.... and I think  there is plenty of anecdotal support (eg our previous POTUS) for that viewpoint. 

The question really is: is race still a variable? if race could be isolated from other clearly relevant variables (e.g, work ethic, work history, attitude, skills, intelligence...) does it still have some influence on the actions/reactions/behaviors/decisions of people (especially those with power) in America today?  And then... if we think it does, is that influence something that continues, perhaps more subtlety and subconsciously than in years past, to effect the meritocracy in negative ways for people of color...generally. All the while with acknowledgement that the meritocracy affords far more opportunity for minority racial groups than ever before in our history.

Either way, “proof” is a nasty word in this conversation— my opinion of course.  Because while the more subtle, and sometimes not so subtle (if you believe race influences impulses in stressful police encounters) impacts of prejudice and bias may (or may not) exist,  requiring proof is disingenuous if the purpose is meaningful conversation. Neither side accepts the other’s data as valid or convincing. Requiring proof (in conversation) is an exercise in futility.  Better, in my opinion, to accept that our views are born of different life experiences that shape the different ways we interpret what is presented to us (including data).

My opinion is based on my experiences (many more than the anecdotes from my previous post), and my experience tells me that race has an embedded influence on me, and I believe does in others as well.  And this influence is exacerbated, sometimes dramatically and impulsively,, in times of high stress — and DOES continue to have a broad, systemic impact on the great meritocracy that we strive for in America.   It’s clear to me that merit has become a much more critical variable than race or gender than was the case years ago.  But we can disagree as to whether this evolving meritocracy is all the way there.  I am dubious of us having acheived the ultimate evolution of that meritocracy, which, for the purposes of conversation, I think is a viewpoint worthy of consideration.

There's no doubt in my mind that racism still exists. I still occassionally encounter racism (towards myself, towards others). It's infrequent, but that's because most people don't say things in public. There will never be a society in which people aren't hateful to others. If it's not race, it will be gender, sexuality, how much they weigh, etc. It's just how some humans operate. I don't want to mistake my logical though process with being a racism apologist. Racism clearly exists. My point is that we're in a point in society where it shouldn't affect your overall performance in life.

So the bigger question: Is race still a factor in determining success? I haven't seen any evidence that proves or disproves it, although there are some obvious trends that disprove it (the three main factors I listed in my previous post). The problem that I have with your side, in general, is that you don't require proof to make a factual assertion. In this case, it's a fairly massive assertion: America is inherently racist. I believe that a statement that "consequential" requires significant proof.

Here is my opinion:
I believe that if you drop in a white baby into a black cultural situation, he will score (in life) similarly as other similar black people.
I believe that if you drop a black baby into an asian cultural situation, he will score similarly as other similar asian people.

It's the upbringing that makes us who we are, not what people perceive you to be due to your skin color. I can't call this fact because I have yet to see a study on transracial adoptions or even interracial marriages with a single mother different than your registered/perceived race (like Obama). A study like this would shed a lot of light into removing basically everything else from the equation *except* race.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 07:58:18 AM by Erik »

Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #88 on: September 09, 2018, 10:23:02 AM »

Online Big333223

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Nike’s online sales jumped 31% after the company unveiled Kaepernick campaign.

Quote
After an initial dip immediately after the news broke, Nike’s NKE, -0.12% online sales actually grew 31% from the Sunday of Labor Day weekend through Tuesday, as compared with a 17% gain recorded for the same period of 2017, according to San Francisco–based Edison Trends.
https://www.marketw atch.com/story/nikes-online-sales-jumped-31-after-company-unveiled-kaepernick-campaign-2018-09-07?link=sfmw_tw


EDIT: The link isn't working quite right because CB keeps censoring the letters "t w a t" in "market watch" when it's made one word in the link, so if you want to see the page, you'll have to paste the link and reattach.
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Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Reply #89 on: September 09, 2018, 10:37:11 AM »

Offline Cman

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Nike’s online sales jumped 31% after the company unveiled Kaepernick campaign.

Quote
After an initial dip immediately after the news broke, Nike’s NKE, -0.12% online sales actually grew 31% from the Sunday of Labor Day weekend through Tuesday, as compared with a 17% gain recorded for the same period of 2017, according to San Francisco–based Edison Trends.
https://www.marketw atch.com/story/nikes-online-sales-jumped-31-after-company-unveiled-kaepernick-campaign-2018-09-07?link=sfmw_tw


EDIT: The link isn't working quite right because CB keeps censoring the letters "t w a t" in "market watch" when it's made one word in the link, so if you want to see the page, you'll have to paste the link and reattach.

I saw that news as well. Nike is probably happy with its decision so far.

I wonder how much Colin K is earning from Nike. Frankly, starring in ads is much better work than risking concussion on the football field.
Celtics fan for life.

 

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