Robert Williams (Merged Threads)

[Big333223]

I think Wagner is skilled already but he is limited by his athletic base.   Wiliams is the opposite with tons of potential, but low skill, a lot of guys never realize their potential, though.  But if he does he will be the better player but there is no guarantee that he will.

Williams is not "low skill", he just doesn't have the same "skill" as Wagner, namely shooting. Wagner isn't anwhere near the shotblocker, rebounder, and passer Williams is.

My guess is the C's just thought Williams switchability on D and rim protection is what they are looking for. They figured it would be easier to make Williams a passable shooter than Wagner a defender that can switch onto guards..

Regarding Williams' skill level, I've attached a lot of my hope for him to this play:

https://youtu.be/LwMuMY73Tgo?t=37s

The play where the clip starts, he catches the ball on a fast break, notices the defender before the ball gets there, stops on a dime to let the defender go past him but takes a dribble as it happens so he can get into position, avoids the defender swiping at the ball, and then dunks it.

I'm obviously reading a lot into this but that feels like the kind of move that someone like Deandre Jordan still doesn't really have the coordination for.

[IDreamCeltics]

Contrary to common opinion, Ainge and Stevens do not want "shooters." They want complete basketball players who can dribble-drive, shoot, pass, and defend multiple positions.

Wagner probably doesn't get on the court because of his slow feet and reaction times -- look at Greg Monroe.

So basically the opposite of Robert Williams?

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Contrary to common opinion, Ainge and Stevens do not want "shooters." They want complete basketball players who can dribble-drive, shoot, pass, and defend multiple positions.

Wagner probably doesn't get on the court because of his slow feet and reaction times -- look at Greg Monroe.

So basically the opposite of Robert Williams?

I don't agree with you. As I watched Williams, I saw I guy who could defend multiple positions and pass. I also saw a few select plays of dribbling/driving and a potential jumpshot.

[coffee425]

Contrary to common opinion, Ainge and Stevens do not want "shooters." They want complete basketball players who can dribble-drive, shoot, pass, and defend multiple positions.

Wagner probably doesn't get on the court because of his slow feet and reaction times -- look at Greg Monroe.

So basically the opposite of Robert Williams?

A nonathlete that's a defensive liability is 300x less valuable than an athlete that's an offensive liability.

[IDreamCeltics]

I think he still would have picked Williams because of his upside. Moritz Wagner will never be able to switch onto guards. I love Wagner and think he will be a good player, but Williams has the POTENTIAL to anchor a no. 1 Defense!
Where are you from? I'm from Wagners hometown Berlin and have seen him play with alba berlin some years ago, he was so thin back than I could have never imagined he would go to the Nba

Grüße aus Berlin! Go Celtics

I'm pretty surprised people think Robert Williams has so much potential.  He wasn't a star in college and no coach has come out from any level to call him a gym rat, talk about his love for the game or his commitment to his craft.  So far he has the physical tools... but so does everyone at the NBA level.


Anthony Randolph, Javale McGee, Bismack Biyombo these seem like the (hopeful) equivalents for the guy to me. 


I'd be stoked if he can spell Baynes minutes as a defender/rebounder who you don't have to run plays for.

[Alleyoopster]

Contrary to common opinion, Ainge and Stevens do not want "shooters." They want complete basketball players who can dribble-drive, shoot, pass, and defend multiple positions.

Wagner probably doesn't get on the court because of his slow feet and reaction times -- look at Greg Monroe.

So basically the opposite of Robert Williams?

A nonathlete that's a defensive liability is 300x less valuable than an athlete that's an offensive liability.

Wagner looked very comfortable on offense and defense in yesterday's Summer League game.

https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2018/07/moe_wagner_posts_big_numbers_i.html

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2784677-sacramento-summer-league-2018-final-scores-stats-highlights-and-reaction

[JHTruth]

I think he still would have picked Williams because of his upside. Moritz Wagner will never be able to switch onto guards. I love Wagner and think he will be a good player, but Williams has the POTENTIAL to anchor a no. 1 Defense!
Where are you from? I'm from Wagners hometown Berlin and have seen him play with alba berlin some years ago, he was so thin back than I could have never imagined he would go to the Nba

Grüße aus Berlin! Go Celtics

I'm pretty surprised people think Robert Williams has so much potential.  He wasn't a star in college and no coach has come out from any level to call him a gym rat, talk about his love for the game or his commitment to his craft.  So far he has the physical tools... but so does everyone at the NBA level.


Anthony Randolph, Javale McGee, Bismack Biyombo these seem like the (hopeful) equivalents for the guy to me. 


I'd be stoked if he can spell Baynes minutes as a defender/rebounder who you don't have to run plays for.

He was a very good player in college. He was a superior rebounder on a % basis to JJJ or Bagley. He was a better shotblocker on a % basis to Ayton and Bagley.

He didn't get the pub, but he's a highly productive player. 9'5" stand reach with 40" vert. Great lateral quickness.

His college career and draft process seem to be somewhat of a mess which is why he probably dropped. But the talent is clearly there. Just needs to be channeled.

I like Wagner OK, just think he's a little overrated because Michigan went far in the tourney..

[JHTruth]

Contrary to common opinion, Ainge and Stevens do not want "shooters." They want complete basketball players who can dribble-drive, shoot, pass, and defend multiple positions.

Wagner probably doesn't get on the court because of his slow feet and reaction times -- look at Greg Monroe.

So basically the opposite of Robert Williams?

A nonathlete that's a defensive liability is 300x less valuable than an athlete that's an offensive liability.

Wagner looked very comfortable on offense and defense in yesterday's Summer League game.

https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2018/07/moe_wagner_posts_big_numbers_i.html

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2784677-sacramento-summer-league-2018-final-scores-stats-highlights-and-reaction

Yeah surprisingly Bagley looks terrible (except when he played Wagner lol).

Wagner will have a place in the league. His lateral quickness does seem to be an issue however..

[KG Living Legend]

 Camby 6'11"  7'6 wingspan 220 pounds

 Williams 6'10" 7'6" wingspan 240 pounds

 Cambys first two years college

 Camby 10.2 ppg 6.4 rpg 3.6 bpg fg% .494
 Second 13.9 ppg 6.2 rpg 3.4 bpg fg% .550

 What about Bob Williams?

Bobby 11.9 PPG 8.2 rpg 2.5 bpg.     Fg .589%
 Second 10.4 ppg 9.2 RPG 2.6 bpg fg% .668


 Camby dominated his junior year 20.5 ppg and was the third overall pick. Interestingly his PPG was his best his rookie season in the NBA.

 Camby a superior scorer and shot blockers. This guy played major minutes until he was 35 years old.

 Williams the better rebounder. A great comparison though, both incredibly quick for bigs and quick twitch off the ground.

[Monkhouse]

Williams would get eaten alive if he was back in Camby's era where big men with strength and post moves dominated.

Camby would get torn apart on defense, if he had to switch on the Al Horford's of today.

So sure, both similar measurements, but Williams seems like he fits our team, and the modern NBA better.

[footey]

Not a bad comparison

Watching RW trot up the court reminds me of Dennis Rodman.

He should watch a lot of his film. Rodman was like Smart in terms of effort, only longer.

We should be so lucky.

[Eddie20]

 Camby 6'11"  7'6 wingspan 220 pounds

 Williams 6'10" 7'6" wingspan 240 pounds

I'm not buying Camby's listed height at all. Davis listed at 6"3", Ainge at 6"5. Plus, look at him next to other NBA stars in that rookie photo.

[bellerephon]

 Camby 6'11"  7'6 wingspan 220 pounds

 Williams 6'10" 7'6" wingspan 240 pounds

I'm not buying Camby's listed height at all. Davis listed at 6"3", Ainge at 6"5. Plus, look at him next to other NBA stars in that rookie photo.

You can't use pictures like this to compare players heights. There are too many variables that come into play. Which player is closer to the camera, how far apart are their feet, are they standing up as straight as possible etc. Camby was always listed at 6'11" and I never heard anyone doubt the truth of that. He certainly looked as tall as other NBA big men during his career. Maybe he was really 6'10", but I'm not buying that he was really 6'8" or something like that.

[Eddie20]

 Camby 6'11"  7'6 wingspan 220 pounds

 Williams 6'10" 7'6" wingspan 240 pounds

I'm not buying Camby's listed height at all. Davis listed at 6"3", Ainge at 6"5. Plus, look at him next to other NBA stars in that rookie photo.

You can't use pictures like this to compare players heights. There are too many variables that come into play. Which player is closer to the camera, how far apart are their feet, are they standing up as straight as possible etc. Camby was always listed at 6'11" and I never heard anyone doubt the truth of that. He certainly looked as tall as other NBA big men during his career. Maybe he was really 6'10", but I'm not buying that he was really 6'8" or something like that.

No, I'm saying he's clearly taller than his listed height. He probably did a KG.

[KG Living Legend]

 Don't think so. He's right around 6'11" maybe even just under shoes off.