Author Topic: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)  (Read 313618 times)

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Re: structure arriving
« Reply #510 on: July 05, 2018, 11:07:56 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I think it's pretty alarming that Williams needs a full time babysitter. Because you can call it what you want, but that's pretty much what he's getting.

I can live with him having a babysitter until he matures.
Jayson Tatum's mom lives two floors away from him. What do you call that?

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Re: A 20 yr old with maturity issues-i blame the team
« Reply #511 on: July 05, 2018, 11:23:58 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm with Rollie on this one.

You invest a 1st round pick in a kid, you can afford to spend the resources to make sure he doesn't have to focus on anything except working on his game.  The team can afford to pay somebody $15 per hour to manage the details for him.

Forget about this being a matter of judging a person's character.  From a purely financial and team management perspective, the cost of making sure this kid doesn't have to manage the logistics of getting where he needs to be when he needs to be there is far less than the cost of him getting off to a bad start in the team program because those things don't happen.


Now, if the team did everything they could to offer him resources, help etc and he declined, wanted to do things his own way, have his own people help him etc and he was still late / missed his flight etc, then it's on him.
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Re: A 20 yr old with maturity issues-i blame the team
« Reply #512 on: July 05, 2018, 11:27:55 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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One of my sons is 23 and been on his own since leaving for college. When he got his first job in his career, the company wasn't expected to babysit him and teach him how to be an adult. He was expected to be and act like an adult why performing his job.

I don't see that things should be any different for Williams simply because his career is basketball. Williams, like my son, has a career and should act accordingly. Be mature. Be early to work. Dedicate yourself to your profession. Be held accountable for you actions.

The first few days of problems in Robert Williams career lies squarely at the feet of Robert Williams. Not the Celtics.

Are adults sometimes late to work, make mistakes on the job? Etc...  guess what being an adult takes practice.  Some people spend a lifetime doing it.  Just because your of a certain age doesn’t mean that the adult genie suddenly grants you special adult powers.  It’s a combo of experiences, environment, and biology.  Step down from your high horse.

i disagree with this, Williams should be held responsible, while i have hope for the kid but being prepared and being responsible, and being on time isn't taught as an adult but when you were kids. While I don't think this is as big of an issue as the media portrays it but we should't blame the team for him missing a flight and practice.

Re: structure arriving
« Reply #513 on: July 05, 2018, 11:33:16 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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dont we already have 2 or 3 "lets all **** about/cheer on williams" threads already?

mods, maybe merge these all on williams?

my question is why does rollie have to start a new thread WITH NO LINK mind you for every single thought that pops in his head? Why can he not just add to existing threads?? Seems to be an attention seeker.

lol

No clue. I've wondered the same thing as it only causes other, much more relevant topics, to be drowned out because silly topics like Semi boxing out on a free throw attempt or Nader is ambidextrous exist. I would put money that the OP will be creating a lot of Williams' threads this season.

Nice-when that was posted CLNS had just done a video with jeff goodman with his up to the date reports and insights from his sources-CLNS and Jeff Goodman in the first post-
As to Nader being ambidextorous  that was when James Young couldn't go right hand off dribble or finish with his off hand.
It you go to reddit you will find a very polished link but only from 9hrs ago mine was yesterday and was very very current.Seems there is considerable interest in Robert Williams.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 12:10:37 PM by rollie mass »

Re: structure arriving
« Reply #514 on: July 05, 2018, 11:54:54 AM »

Offline Verticality

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dont we already have 2 or 3 "lets all **** about/cheer on williams" threads already?

mods, maybe merge these all on williams?

my question is why does rollie have to start a new thread WITH NO LINK mind you for every single thought that pops in his head? Why can he not just add to existing threads?? Seems to be an attention seeker.

It hasn't stopped you from posting comments, has it? If you don't like the thread, why keep it going?

Re: structure arriving
« Reply #515 on: July 05, 2018, 11:56:01 AM »

Offline Verticality

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I think it's pretty alarming that Williams needs a full time babysitter. Because you can call it what you want, but that's pretty much what he's getting.

I can live with him having a babysitter until he matures.
Jayson Tatum's mom lives two floors away from him. What do you call that?

How I Met Your Mother.

This thread needed that.

Re: A 20 yr old with maturity issues-i blame the team
« Reply #516 on: July 05, 2018, 12:11:33 PM »

Offline Verticality

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Where did the Celtics let this kid down.

Give the kid the support tools-that missed flight was like a scream for help.

This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion.

What he needs from the Celtics is being held accountable, and it looks like the team did that. He took responsibility for the breakdown.

Possible that it will happen again? Yes. Likely that it will be a chronic problem? No.

Let's play ball.

Re: A 20 yr old with maturity issues-i blame the team
« Reply #517 on: July 05, 2018, 12:12:35 PM »

Offline Hank Finkel

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Williams should be held accountable for his actions.  This is why he wasn’t drafted until #27.  He has talent but he also has issues or he wouldn’t have dropped so low.  If he becomes accountable and matures properly as a professional this pick will be great.  If he doesn’t then we can look back and say this is why he dropped to us at 27.  I hope the young guys like Brown and Tatum can point Williams in the right direction but ultimately it falls on Williams shoulders to become a professional player and act as such in the process. 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 04:35:00 PM by Hank Finkel »

Re: structure arriving
« Reply #518 on: July 05, 2018, 12:14:06 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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Good. Reminds me of when the kings drafted cousins then hired his high school coach

how did that work out?
Really well. Yes, Cousins, by all accounts, is a jerk with a temper, but he's not dead or disabled from drink or drugs and he does appear to stay in shape, make it to practices, and plays well in games.

You also failed to mention he is no longer in Sacramento though he was on a bargain contract.

FYI Cousins was a model citizen in Sacramento. He is beloved by the community. Also, players get traded, whether you attend practices or not. You cannot cite Cousins as an example that getting help doesnt work. For all we know, he mightve been worse without it,

phenomenal basketball player had no offers and had to call a team to lobby for employment at a bargain basement price. Yeah all that help he got really worked. Look I dont know how you reached the conclusion that I am against getting help for players. I am not.

Lol bro, how’s the humidity on Mars? Cousins and his lack of offers MIGHT, just might, have something to do with him weighing 280 and catastrophically tearing his ACL. Just maybe.

if that makes you feel better about why no team or players wanted him,

That is literally why it happened. It wasn’t due to maturity or lack of support.
2023 Non-Active, Non-NBA 75 Historical Draft, SAB Bulls:

PG: Deron Williams 08 / John Wall 17
SG: David Thompson 78 (HOF) / Hersey Hawkins 91
SF: TMac 03 (HOF) / M.R. Richardson 81 / Tayshaun 07
PF: Larry Nance Sr 92 / Blake Griffin 14
C: Lanier 77 (HOF) / Brad Daugherty 91 / Camby 07

Re: structure arriving
« Reply #519 on: July 05, 2018, 12:22:15 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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One thing we should all be able to agree on here is that the young man is probably better off with those posters that show concern than those that think this is not a big deal let it go.

The lack of attention to character and responsible behavior is what fosters irresponsible behavior. Let it go is quite possibly the worst response.

The fact, that there are people moving him with him is proof positive that those around him see that he needs help. He needs help because there is a problem.

I think the folks with concerns win this one.

Win what? There's literally nobody here saying he shouldn't get structure and help. Get off your high horse about responsible behavior. People are simply reacting to the hot take that he's on drugs or doomed to flunk out of the NBA, not debating that he needs some assistance and carries some risk.

win what? the debate of course. You guys are having a debate if you had not notice. Some have said nothing to see here he is just 20 move on. Some are saying there is a concern that could end badly. Perhaps the debate would have ended earlier if some of you actually realized you were in a debate.

I haven't counted, but I don't think too many people are saying there's nothing to see. Clearly there is a maturity issue, I think most people see that and agree that it's not ideal. The debate seems to be between those who think that it's an issue that can be addressed and the kid has a decent chance of becoming a useful NBA player, and those who think he's a lost cause because of his lack of maturity.

Personally I don't find it at all unusual that a 20 year old would show a lack of maturity. I certainly agree that there are plenty of young people that are mature and responsible, but I don't think that means he is a lost cause. People can grow and mature. The Celts are implementing some steps to help him with that process. That's a perfectly reasonable thing for them to do.

He clearly isn’t mature and no one is arguing that he is. Given his immaturity, we think getting some help is better for than not, and there really is no argument against that. If you’re salty, you’re salty that we drafted him at all. But there was no other potential future starter on the board, and he was BPA and at our position of greatest need. Plus we have a winning culture.

Cry all you want, it was a great pick. He’s definitely screwed up, but the whole point is the team is supposed to be here to help and guide him.

Lastly, most dissenters in here are displaying “immaturity” by assassinating the character of a poor 20 year old for missing a flight, or writing him off. Maybe some of you guys have “a problem” too.
2023 Non-Active, Non-NBA 75 Historical Draft, SAB Bulls:

PG: Deron Williams 08 / John Wall 17
SG: David Thompson 78 (HOF) / Hersey Hawkins 91
SF: TMac 03 (HOF) / M.R. Richardson 81 / Tayshaun 07
PF: Larry Nance Sr 92 / Blake Griffin 14
C: Lanier 77 (HOF) / Brad Daugherty 91 / Camby 07

Re: A 20 yr old with maturity issues-i blame the team
« Reply #520 on: July 05, 2018, 12:26:27 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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One of my sons is 23 and been on his own since leaving for college. When he got his first job in his career, the company wasn't expected to babysit him and teach him how to be an adult. He was expected to be and act like an adult why performing his job.

I don't see that things should be any different for Williams simply because his career is basketball. Williams, like my son, has a career and should act accordingly. Be mature. Be early to work. Dedicate yourself to your profession. Be held accountable for you actions.

The first few days of problems in Robert Williams career lies squarely at the feet of Robert Williams. Not the Celtics.

Are adults sometimes late to work, make mistakes on the job? Etc...  guess what being an adult takes practice.  Some people spend a lifetime doing it.  Just because your of a certain age doesn’t mean that the adult genie suddenly grants you special adult powers.  It’s a combo of experiences, environment, and biology.  Step down from your high horse.

i disagree with this, Williams should be held responsible, while i have hope for the kid but being prepared and being responsible, and being on time isn't taught as an adult but when you were kids. While I don't think this is as big of an issue as the media portrays it but we should't blame the team for him missing a flight and practice.

What exactly does that mean, though "be held responsible"?  Some commenters seem to think he should be tarred and feathered.

Look, I'm not meaning to pick on your post in particular, but there are some misconceptions and some pretty harsh attitudes being expressed on this thread.

Let's start with being on time.    You assert that being on time " isn't taught as an adult but when you were kids".  But reality just isn't that simple.

Being on time is governed by your executive function faculties.   For those who aren't familiar with it, your executive function is your set of mental attributes that help you 'get things done'.  The ability to handle logistical tasks involving order, priority and time.   This is physiological.  It is controlled by the frontal lobe.

Executive Function Disorder is a very, very common aspect (one of a broad spectrum of symptoms) of various disorders such as ADD, ADHD, Asberger Syndrome, Anxiety, etc.

Executive Function Disorder can make it very difficult for otherwise highly functioning individuals 'stay on top of' things, like starting one's homework, remembering a meeting, doing tasks in proper order, etc.   And yes, keeping track of time.

I have a beloved loved one who struggles with EFD and even though he is an extremely high academic achiever (test scores through the roof, all As this last year), it is a constant, constant struggle for him to get his schoolwork done, to remember to get things done, to not waste tons of precious time sucked into video games, etc.   Heck, even needs to be reminded to brush his teeth.   He literally, and very simply, just needs someone to remind him what he should be doing at any point and he's fine.  Brilliant in fact.

I don't know if Robert Williams suffers from EFD.   But I do know it is extremely common and both these two incidents fit right in the wheelhouse of it.

It isn't a matter of 'bad character' or needing to be 'taught' responsibility.   If you ask someone with EFD about the importance of a schedule they totally understand.   If you ask them what the right priority of a set of things should be, they can tell you.    But that knowledge doesn't always translate into execution.   Because EFD lets other things get in the way.   Distractions pull at one's attention, push the schedule off to the side.  Also, EFD can cause you to overlook details.  Failure to note some details while vividly remembering others is common.

As a common symptom of ADHD, EFD is often helped by some medications.   Not always.   

Fortunately, a lot of these sorts of cognitive disfunction issues, being physiological, often get better on their own as the brain finally finishes development, usually around one's mid-20s.   Basically you can think of the brain as made of many parts, not all of which develop at the same rate for all kids.   It's not uncommon for ADHD kids to have some parts of their brain racing way ahead of their peers while other parts lag.     And it's also not uncommon for them to finally catch up with themselves in their mid-20s.

A 20 year old kid is not a finished adult.  Not even close.   The human brain doesn't finish growing until you are around 25 or so.

I guess I just wish folks would stop tossing out absolute moral judgements as if the poor kid got caught doing something objectively bad like stealing or beating up small kids or whatever.   Kids with EFD are not 'bad'.  They have a disability, no different than another kid missing an ear or hand.   Or bad eyesight.   The vast majority of the time all that is needed is correct accommodation and the kid can do everything needed or expected.

More than likely all he will need for a while is for an aide or handler to help him stay on his new routines, to not forget his next task or responsibility.   This will probably have zero affect on the basketball court.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: A 20 yr old with maturity issues-i blame the team
« Reply #521 on: July 05, 2018, 12:30:16 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Where did the Celtics let this kid down.

Give the kid the support tools-that missed flight was like a scream for help.

This whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion.

What he needs from the Celtics is being held accountable, and it looks like the team did that. He took responsibility for the breakdown.

Possible that it will happen again? Yes. Likely that it will be a chronic problem? No.

Let's play ball.
Glad you feel this way, but I wouldn't go that far just yet.  No one has any basis to predict this, not even the Celtics.

Re: A 20 yr old with maturity issues-i blame the team
« Reply #522 on: July 05, 2018, 12:38:01 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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There has been a lot of debate on this kid.  Seems more so then some of our high draft picks.  I agree that everyone should be accountable for their actions.  We control our behavior but some of us have better examples then others.  Kids that can play sports are held to a different standard then others.  It's a shame but it's the way of the world.  Some of the kids have great structure at home and others do not.  The one's that do not are the one's that need the most help when it comes to making it to the highest level.  What they do with it from that point is up to them but they need help.  Most have no clue how to go about being a professional.  Especially for a job when most likely you have never had one.

I hope he truly leans from his mistakes and learns how to be a professional.  I will commend him or whoever made the decision to give him support because it is needed.  We are all immature at that age and if we don't have guidance we can be set up for epic failure.  Only time will tell what kind of person this kid is or what kind of person he will become.  You don't get a lot of Jayson tatums and Jaylen Browns.  Marcus Smart is another.  Very high character and understand they have to work to get what they want.  Hopefully this rubs off of The big fella.  If it doesn't he will be out of the league or will bounce around a lot. 

Being the 27th pick in the draft it's a no brainer gamble to take on a team that doesn't need much.

Re: A 20 yr old with maturity issues-i blame the team
« Reply #523 on: July 05, 2018, 12:43:08 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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One of my sons is 23 and been on his own since leaving for college. When he got his first job in his career, the company wasn't expected to babysit him and teach him how to be an adult. He was expected to be and act like an adult why performing his job.

I don't see that things should be any different for Williams simply because his career is basketball. Williams, like my son, has a career and should act accordingly. Be mature. Be early to work. Dedicate yourself to your profession. Be held accountable for you actions.

The first few days of problems in Robert Williams career lies squarely at the feet of Robert Williams. Not the Celtics.

Are adults sometimes late to work, make mistakes on the job? Etc...  guess what being an adult takes practice.  Some people spend a lifetime doing it.  Just because your of a certain age doesn’t mean that the adult genie suddenly grants you special adult powers.  It’s a combo of experiences, environment, and biology.  Step down from your high horse.

i disagree with this, Williams should be held responsible, while i have hope for the kid but being prepared and being responsible, and being on time isn't taught as an adult but when you were kids. While I don't think this is as big of an issue as the media portrays it but we should't blame the team for him missing a flight and practice.

What exactly does that mean, though "be held responsible"?  Some commenters seem to think he should be tarred and feathered.

Look, I'm not meaning to pick on your post in particular, but there are some misconceptions and some pretty harsh attitudes being expressed on this thread.

Let's start with being on time.    You assert that being on time " isn't taught as an adult but when you were kids".  But reality just isn't that simple.

Being on time is governed by your executive function faculties.   For those who aren't familiar with it, your executive function is your set of mental attributes that help you 'get things done'.  The ability to handle logistical tasks involving order, priority and time.   This is physiological.  It is controlled by the frontal lobe.

Executive Function Disorder is a very, very common aspect (one of a broad spectrum of symptoms) of various disorders such as ADD, ADHD, Asberger Syndrome, Anxiety, etc.

Executive Function Disorder can make it very difficult for otherwise highly functioning individuals 'stay on top of' things, like starting one's homework, remembering a meeting, doing tasks in proper order, etc.   And yes, keeping track of time.

I have a beloved loved one who struggles with EFD and even though he is an extremely high academic achiever (test scores through the roof, all As this last year), it is a constant, constant struggle for him to get his schoolwork done, to remember to get things done, to not waste tons of precious time sucked into video games, etc.   Heck, even needs to be reminded to brush his teeth.   He literally, and very simply, just needs someone to remind him what he should be doing at any point and he's fine.  Brilliant in fact.

I don't know if Robert Williams suffers from EFD.   But I do know it is extremely common and both these two incidents fit right in the wheelhouse of it.

It isn't a matter of 'bad character' or needing to be 'taught' responsibility.   If you ask someone with EFD about the importance of a schedule they totally understand.   If you ask them what the right priority of a set of things should be, they can tell you.    But that knowledge doesn't always translate into execution.   Because EFD lets other things get in the way.   Distractions pull at one's attention, push the schedule off to the side.  Also, EFD can cause you to overlook details.  Failure to note some details while vividly remembering others is common.

As a common symptom of ADHD, EFD is often helped by some medications.   Not always.   

Fortunately, a lot of these sorts of cognitive disfunction issues, being physiological, often get better on their own as the brain finally finishes development, usually around one's mid-20s.   Basically you can think of the brain as made of many parts, not all of which develop at the same rate for all kids.   It's not uncommon for ADHD kids to have some parts of their brain racing way ahead of their peers while other parts lag.     And it's also not uncommon for them to finally catch up with themselves in their mid-20s.

A 20 year old kid is not a finished adult.  Not even close.   The human brain doesn't finish growing until you are around 25 or so.

I guess I just wish folks would stop tossing out absolute moral judgements as if the poor kid got caught doing something objectively bad like stealing or beating up small kids or whatever.   Kids with EFD are not 'bad'.  They have a disability, no different than another kid missing an ear or hand.   Or bad eyesight.   The vast majority of the time all that is needed is correct accommodation and the kid can do everything needed or expected.

More than likely all he will need for a while is for an aide or handler to help him stay on his new routines, to not forget his next task or responsibility.   This will probably have zero affect on the basketball court.
A brilliant post TP TP TP

Re: structure arriving
« Reply #524 on: July 05, 2018, 12:58:11 PM »

Offline rochrist

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I find it amusing to watch some of you defending Williams by basically attacking all 20 year olds.  "Well, what do you expect?  He's only 20." is an interesting theory that gets proven wrong by millions of 20 year olds every day, but that's the hill people are dying on around here, rather than just admitting that the kid's a problem beyond standard age-related issues.  It's not as if all the other draftees are having the same problems, after all, but that's getting ignored in the fervor to defend a kid that you'd be slamming for doing this if it wasn't for the jersey he's now wearing.

Good stuff.

Yeah, I mean how many other 20 year olds are serial murderers with 8+ bodies on the resumes? Come on now!