Re-grade Danny offseason (poll)

[Snakehead]

As much as I loved watching IT, I never wanted to resign him.  A lot of people didn't like the trade at first but I don't think many of those people are looking forward enough, or also realizing how paying IT would cost the rest of the team (nevermind that you should never pay someone that bad on defense the max anyways).

The offseason was great and the team is set up for years to come, while still having the ability to pick more young players or pull off another trade. 

A from me.

[nickagneta]

There is just so much up in the air regarding this off season its hard to give it a grade.

Will Tatum end up a better pro than Fultz?
Will the Brooklyn pick end up a better player than the LA/Sactown pick?
Will Kyrie be better than IT over the next 4-6 years?
Is Zizic any good and a bad throw in to match salary?
Will Hayward still be an All-Star quality player and worth the max salary slot?

So hard. Short term....B+. Long term could be a A+ to a D depending on how things work out.

[GratefulCs]

As a side note one thing I do like about this offseason is the overall youth. We still have vets like Irving, Hayward, Horford, Morris and Baynes playing big roles but the rest of our primary rotation (Smart, Rozier, Brown, Tatum) are on rookie deals. In addition pretty much all the depth guys are young like Semi, Nader, Yabu. This means that Brad is gonna be forced to give minutes to young guys. Brown messes up and Brad doesn't have the Gerald green, Jonas Jerebko to put in the game. This may mean fewer wins but I think is better for the growth of the team long term. I'd be disappointed if Brown doesn't get 26+ minutes a game.

agreed

TP

[GratefulCs]

I think the Kyrie trade brought us from an A- to a B-.

is it mostly because of losing the BKN pick?

[Greyman]

A cautious B. Season could end up higher or lower when we come to grade that. I feel the team is better and DA probably had to go for Kyrie when he became available. With IT's hip injury, we would have had some tough months before he returned even with Hayward (remembering that AB had gone).

I feel like a lot of it rests on how well Brown has progressed. Lesser so on Tatum's contribution. He will get rookie minutes. Very confident the Celtics will be one of the top two seeds in the East. Making the finals should be closer than it was last season.

[GratefulCs]

There is just so much up in the air regarding this off season its hard to give it a grade.

Will Tatum end up a better pro than Tatum?
Will the Brooklyn pick end up a better player than the LA/Sactown pick?
Will Kyrie be better than IT over the next 4-6 years?
Is Zizic any good and a bad throw in to match salary?
Will Hayward still be an All-Star quality player and worth the max salary slot?

So hard. Short term....B+. Long term could be a A+ to a D depending on how things work out.

i think they'll be about equal 

[nickagneta]

There is just so much up in the air regarding this off season its hard to give it a grade.

Will Tatum end up a better pro than Tatum?
Will the Brooklyn pick end up a better player than the LA/Sactown pick?
Will Kyrie be better than IT over the next 4-6 years?
Is Zizic any good and a bad throw in to match salary?
Will Hayward still be an All-Star quality player and worth the max salary slot?

So hard. Short term....B+. Long term could be a A+ to a D depending on how things work out.

i think they'll be about equal 

Fixed that

[Roy H.]

I think the Kyrie trade brought us from an A- to a B-.

is it mostly because of losing the BKN pick?

Mostly. It's rare that you give up the player who had a better season, another starter, and a coveted lottery pick for a guy with similar flaws to the top player you traded away.

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

[GratefulCs]

I think the Kyrie trade brought us from an A- to a B-.

is it mostly because of losing the BKN pick?

Mostly. It's rare that you give up the player who had a better season, another starter, and a coveted lottery pick for a guy with similar flaws to the top player you traded away.

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

i see where you're coming from

and IT did seem to have a better year, but i don't know if we were going to get that production after that injury anyway

plus it seems as though danny wasn't about to give him the max


i'm excited to have a real time frame now, personally

[Eddie20]

I think the Kyrie trade brought us from an A- to a B-.

is it mostly because of losing the BKN pick?

Mostly. It's rare that you give up the player who had a better season, another starter, and a coveted lottery pick for a guy with similar flaws to the top player you traded away.

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

Irving is just a superior player to Thomas and he's 25. Regular season numbers are nice, but in the playoffs Irving takes his game to another level. Thomas, well, he turns into a low efficient chucker. After seeing what Stevens did for Crawford, Turner, and Thomas, I can't wait to see what he does for the superior Irving.

The only thing that really hurts in that trade is the 2018 pick. However, what certainty do we have that the player would be as good as Irving? Plus, how long will he take to develop? Irving is established and, given his age, provides us with a really long window.

17-18 injured Thomas is not better than Irving. No chance. Plus, you have to worry about the potential risk in losing him to a team willing to "back the brinks truck".

We needed to give up Crowder to give minutes to talented young players, Brown and Tatum. It might offer some initial growing pains, but by the playoffs I expect to see those players vasty improve than their current levels.

Zizic will be likely replaced by a veteran big, so in terms of 17-18 production the latter will be the better player.

[Sophomore]

I think the Kyrie trade brought us from an A- to a B-.

is it mostly because of losing the BKN pick?

Mostly. It's rare that you give up the player who had a better season, another starter, and a coveted lottery pick for a guy with similar flaws to the top player you traded away.

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

Regular-season IT was better than regular season Kyrie last year. I agree with that. But two other points.

1. Playoff Kyrie and playoff IT were about even. Kyrie shot the ball a little better and scored more; IT dished out an extra assist and a half. To me that is the relevant comparison; we don't need stellar performance during the regular season. We need a higher ceiling in the playoffs. It seems very likely that Kyrie still has room to grow and that IT does not.

2. People forget that IT made a *big* jump last year. His scoring went up six points from the year before, and his true shooting percentage went from a solid 56% to an outstanding 62%. That was the best season of his career, by a lot. It's possible he can replicate that, but as much as I love the guy's  skill and heart, I have my doubts.  I think it is more likely that Brad and his team can do for Kyrie what they have done for other players before.

[max215]

F really??

The F's crack me up.   Notice that no one posted I gave an F because it is little more than a contrarian outlook.   Maybe Crowder and IT voted?   JK

I gave an A but that is really a pre-grade.   None of us know how it will work out on the court until we see them play together.  Talentwise on paper we are a better if one can look past one's emotions.

I voted "F." If there were more options, I probably would've said "D-," but given the options, I thought it was closer to an "F" than "D."

Are you still hung up danny not drafting Fultz?

Would you rather have Fultz, Kyrie, Hayward?

Yes, especially after Danny went on to sell the farm for an inferior PG asset.

[Snakehead]

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

IT played in a way better system and was the focal point, as well.  Kyrie is about to be in a much better offense, and he's 25.  Age matters in potential, but also how much each player gets paid.

Context is important in the comparison.

IT was great but I can't see him getting any better.  And even Kyrie is an important improvement on defense.

[Roy H.]

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

IT played in a way better system and was the focal point, as well.  Kyrie is about to be in a much better offense, and he's 25.  Age matters in potential, but also how much each player gets paid.

Context is important in the comparison.

IT was great but I can't see him getting any better.  And even Kyrie is an important improvement on defense.

Kyrie isn't an improvement on defense.

Our offense was "better" in large part due to IT.  He's more of a willing passer and less of a ISO player than Kyrie.  Kyrie took more shots than IT last year, and had Lebron setting him up.  It's not a given that he's going to improve individually, or that our offense will improve collectively.

In terms of getting paid, Kyrie will make more than IT in every season other than 2018-19. That does matter next season for the luxury tax, but it's not a gigantic consideration.

Kyrie has the potential to get better, for sure. There's also the possibility that he's a worse fit or isn't up to the task leadership-wise.

[hpantazo]

I think the Kyrie trade brought us from an A- to a B-.

is it mostly because of losing the BKN pick?

Mostly. It's rare that you give up the player who had a better season, another starter, and a coveted lottery pick for a guy with similar flaws to the top player you traded away.

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

Kyrie absolutely demolished us against our two best defenders in the playoffs last year. Whenever we were closing the gap, Kyrie went on a tear and scored at will on what we considered elite defenders.

That, combined with IT still rehabbing from a serious injury that he may never return to form from, and that he is due a max deal and is older than Kyrie, it is no comparison imo. Kyrie is easily better and can get even better soon, whereas IT is about to hit his downward slope. Huge win for Ainge in this deal.

Overall, easily an A+ for this offseason. This is the offseason we were waiting for. We got the top player in the draft, signed the top FA on the market, and traded for one of the best young scorers in the NBA. Amazing offseason.