Bucher: Bulls shopping Butler

[number_n9ne]

Do you think they would go for a package based around Crowder, Olynyk, Rozier, BKN 18 1st, MEM 19 1st, LAC 19 1st, MIN 17 2nd? If they balk, swap Smart in for Rozier?

[CoachBo]

Do you think they would go for a package based around Crowder, Olynyk, Rozier, BKN 18 1st, MEM 19 1st, LAC 19 1st, MIN 17 2nd? If they balk, swap Smart in for Rozier?

I would hang up were I the Bulls.

I don't think you get them to take a call without the two Brooklyn picks and Brown.

People need to drop this idea about acquiring Butler and "saving assets." If you do a Butler deal - and I still don't think he ever wears green - you are going all in and spending those assets.

Otherwise, no deal happens. Rozier, Yabu, Zizic ... The Bulls aren't going to care about second-level assets. Period.

[number_n9ne]

Do you think they would go for a package based around Crowder, Olynyk, Rozier, BKN 18 1st, MEM 19 1st, LAC 19 1st, MIN 17 2nd? If they balk, swap Smart in for Rozier?

I would hang up were I the Bulls.

I don't think you get them to take a call without the two Brooklyn picks and Brown.

That's tough on our end because we'd be sacrificing our whole future to try and contend with Lebron and Curry.

[ederson]

it doesn't matter if they hang up.

would any team offer that much? 3 top 4 picks? i really doubt it. eventually the bulls will answer and make a counteroffer

unless they are not very interested in trading

[Somebody]

Do you think they would go for a package based around Crowder, Olynyk, Rozier, BKN 18 1st, MEM 19 1st, LAC 19 1st, MIN 17 2nd? If they balk, swap Smart in for Rozier?

I would hang up were I the Bulls.

I don't think you get them to take a call without the two Brooklyn picks and Brown.

People need to drop this idea about acquiring Butler and "saving assets." If you do a Butler deal - and I still don't think he ever wears green - you are going all in and spending those assets.

Otherwise, no deal happens. Rozier, Yabu, Zizic ... The Bulls aren't going to care about second-level assets. Period.

Yeah, and I'd hang up if the bulls ask for multiple "first level assets". He's just not that type of AD and DMC guy you would give up both brooklyn picks and a prospect or two for.

[Cman]

Do you think they would go for a package based around Crowder, Olynyk, Rozier, BKN 18 1st, MEM 19 1st, LAC 19 1st, MIN 17 2nd? If they balk, swap Smart in for Rozier?

I would hang up were I the Bulls.

I don't think you get them to take a call without the two Brooklyn picks and Brown.

That's tough on our end because we'd be sacrificing our whole future to try and contend with Lebron and Curry.

Ditto. Does IT, Butler, Horford (that's basically who we have left), with basically zero talent coming to the Cs via the next several drafts, allow the Cs to contend with the Cavs now or put the Cs in place to succeed in a few years as LeBron is on the downside of his career? I don't think so.

The more I think about it, the more I vote for holding on to our important assets, and continuing the gradual rebuild. Unless DeMarcus Cousins is available.

[CoachBo]

What exactly is that future?

It's people wagering that Ainge can draft a champion.

And you know where I stand on that.

[csfansince60s]

I'd rather trade Bradley than Crowder for a bunch of reasons.

Butler is a more natural 2 than a 3, although he can play the 3, so replacing Bradley (whom I admire and respect and who might be my favorite current Celtic) with Butler works positionally better. The main thing that we lose in giving up Bradley is his ability to hound and harass point guards. Otherwise, Butler is equal or a plus in every other category.

Keeping Crowder at least keeps our SF rotation (where we are thin) of Crowder/Brown intact. I also think that it would be cool to have these two Marquette buddies playing together.

I'd also give up both Brooklyn picks to be able to retain Brown.

Bradley/Rozier/Zeller and both Brooklyn picks for Butler would be my foundation for a trade. Add any other picks as necessary.

Keep Crowder and Brown.

IT/Smart
Butler/Smart
Crowder/Brown
Horford/Jerebko
Amir/KO

How about a defensive lineup of Smart, Butler, Crowder, Horford. That would be impressive.

And an end of the game lineup of IT, Smart, Butler, Crowder, Horford. That would be fun to watch.

Would be nice to get Gibson or Lopez if it could be worked, but not a deal-breaker.

[BitterJim]

I'd rather trade Bradley than Crowder for a bunch of reasons.

Butler is a more natural 2 than a 3, although he can play the 3, so replacing Bradley (whom I admire and respect and who might be my favorite current Celtic) with Butler works positionally better. The main thing that we lose in giving up Bradley is his ability to hound and harass point guards. Otherwise, Butler is equal or a plus in every other category.

Keeping Crowder at least keeps our SF rotation (where we are thin) of Crowder/Brown intact. I also think that it would be cool to have these two Marquette buddies playing together.

I'd also give up both Brooklyn picks to be able to retain Brown.

Bradley/Rozier/Zeller and both Brooklyn picks for Butler would be my foundation for a trade. Add any other picks as necessary.

Keep Crowder and Brown.

IT/Smart
Butler/Smart
Crowder/Brown
Horford/Jerebko
Amir/KO

How about a defensive lineup of Smart, Butler, Crowder, Horford. That would be impressive.

And an end of the game lineup of IT, Smart, Butler, Crowder, Horford. That would be fun to watch.

Would be nice to get Gibson or Lopez if it could be worked, but not a deal-breaker.

I don't see why the Bulls would take Bradley over Crowder, though.  They have Wade at SG for the near future, so a SF like Crowder that could play next to him would make way more sense

[IDreamCeltics]

The Bulls should want, in my opinion, two starters and two high draft picks.

Thomas and Horford are going nowhere. I doubt that some combination of Brown - characterized as a future Topi 50 player all-time on the front page; I can't stop laughing - Bradley and Crowder moves the starter needle for them.

And they most certainly would want both Brooklyn picks.

If I could get them to go for the two picks, and Brown, I do that without blinking. That is excellent return - finally - for the Pierce and Garnett trade.

I don't see that as being enough, however, to suit them.

Honestly, the time for that trade has passed, last year was the time to pull the trigger.  Here's what Kevin O'Connor wrote about the Bulls asking price for Butler before the 2016 draft recently on theringer.com,

"according to multiple league front-office executives. For the Celtics, the request was likely Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart, the no. 3 pick (which the Bulls likely would have used to draft Kris Dunn), and the no. 16 pick"

I HATE the idea of giving up Jay, but that would have been a winning trade for the Celtics.  You'd be trading the 3rd pick in a weak two player draft, a backup point guard, a 16th pick that you didn't even have space on the roster for, and a very good starter for an All-Star who would literally go bananas in Brad's system. One only has to look to Butler's recent 52 point, 11 rebound, 6 assist, 3 steal, 1 block performance against the Charlotte Bobcats to get a glimpse into what he could do if surrounded by floor spacers (D-Wade and Rondo were both out for that game).  The Celtics essentially refused to trade 3 nickels and a dime for a quarter last year - while having two more high lottery pickets in their back pocket...

Seems like if there was ever a time for that trade it was last year, it didn't happen, it's time for the Celtics to move forward and for Chicago to realize they're the new Sacramento Kings. 
       
 


 

[PAOBoston]

If the C's aren't willing to go all in now, I have no idea what the purpose of giving Al Horford a monster deal in the past offseason. They can hold on to the picks but ultimately, these 19 year old players won't pan out (if they even do) for at least 4 years. It's 4 more years of nothingness/rebuilding.

[csfansince60s]

I'd rather trade Bradley than Crowder for a bunch of reasons.

Butler is a more natural 2 than a 3, although he can play the 3, so replacing Bradley (whom I admire and respect and who might be my favorite current Celtic) with Butler works positionally better. The main thing that we lose in giving up Bradley is his ability to hound and harass point guards. Otherwise, Butler is equal or a plus in every other category.

Keeping Crowder at least keeps our SF rotation (where we are thin) of Crowder/Brown intact. I also think that it would be cool to have these two Marquette buddies playing together.

I'd also give up both Brooklyn picks to be able to retain Brown.

Bradley/Rozier/Zeller and both Brooklyn picks for Butler would be my foundation for a trade. Add any other picks as necessary.

Keep Crowder and Brown.

IT/Smart
Butler/Smart
Crowder/Brown
Horford/Jerebko
Amir/KO

How about a defensive lineup of Smart, Butler, Crowder, Horford. That would be impressive.

And an end of the game lineup of IT, Smart, Butler, Crowder, Horford. That would be fun to watch.

Would be nice to get Gibson or Lopez if it could be worked, but not a deal-breaker.

I don't see why the Bulls would take Bradley over Crowder, though.  They have Wade at SG for the near future, so a SF like Crowder that could play next to him would make way more sense

TP, I see your point. The Bulls, too, are thin at SF, with McDermott and Butler rotating there.

Wade will be 35 in less than two weeks, playing less than 30 mpg. Bradley just turned 26. If Chicago trades Butler, they are committing to the future, where Bradley fits better. Those two Brooklyn picks should make up the difference for the compromise on the positional need.

[heyvik]

Just a quick thought: wouldn't it be nice to re-route Butler to SAC, Cousins to Boston and Gay to Chi?

Obviously this isn't a straight up trade, but the framework for a trade to happen.

[tankcity!]

there's discussion on the bulls forum on realgm about this.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1506883&p=51117856#p51117856


I offered:
2017 Brooklyn pick (currently #1, probably top 3 at season's end)
2019 Memphis pick (could be gold considering Gasol's age/health history)
Terry Rozier
Kelly Olynyk
Amir Johnson


and was abused multiple times, lol.

The reasonable replies are saying they'd want at the very least:
17' BRK pick
Brown
18' nets.

if we are keeping Smart, Bradley, Crowder.

Which in a way is sort of fair. Would suck to lose Brown, but we are hoping he turns into Butler eventually right?

IT
Bradley
Butler
Horford
Bogut or Lopez

with
Crowder
Smart
Rozier
KO
Zeller
Green
Jerebko

is better than the Raptors.

Look bottom line is that if Butler was worth three cracks at an allstar (2017 Brooklyn pick, Jaylen Brown and 2018 Brooklyn pick), the Bulls would be willing to build around him.  There's a reason why they are shopping him hard.  He's not a superstar.  He's not good enough to build around. I'm a firm "no" on any trade that includes the 2017 Brooklyn pick.  I'd rather keep the pick and use the cap space to go after Hayward this Summer.

You don't trade the farm for Premium Brand Ricky Davis.    If they want a package built around Jaylen and Smart, I'm ok with it, but I really do think Jaylen has a chance to be as good as Butler in 5 years and I really do think both Bradley and Crowder each individually give you about 75% of what Butler provides.

I couldn't agree more Lar. I don't see the point in dealing for Butler when it won't make us a championship contender and we won't have assets nor cap flexibility to improve our team. If people do actually think we have shot at a ring with that roster, then imo they are overrating Horford and Thomas.

[tankcity!]

Butler's not going anywhere.  He's got a guaranteed 5 year deal that's going to wind up being below market rate once the new collective bargaining agreement goes into effect. 

You change the coach, GM and then every other player on the roster before you move him.

Disagree. They know he's not a superstar and they can get much more for him now then they could later on. Look at the Kings for example or the Hawks. They're players contracts are expiring and they are losing trade value by the day. Have you seen the market for Milsap? Not great. The Pelicans are offering a lottery protected first round pick haha.