Bucher: Bulls shopping Butler

[chambers]

there's discussion on the bulls forum on realgm about this.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1506883&p=51117856#p51117856


I offered:
2017 Brooklyn pick (currently #1, probably top 3 at season's end)
2019 Memphis pick (could be gold considering Gasol's age/health history)
Terry Rozier
Kelly Olynyk
Amir Johnson


and was abused multiple times, lol.

The reasonable replies are saying they'd want at the very least:
17' BRK pick
Brown
18' nets.

if we are keeping Smart, Bradley, Crowder.

Which in a way is sort of fair. Would suck to lose Brown, but we are hoping he turns into Butler eventually right?

IT
Bradley
Butler
Horford
Bogut or Lopez

with
Crowder
Smart
Rozier
KO
Zeller
Green
Jerebko

is better than the Raptors.

Look bottom line is that if Butler was worth three cracks at an allstar (2017 Brooklyn pick, Jaylen Brown and 2018 Brooklyn pick), the Bulls would be willing to build around him.  There's a reason why they are shopping him hard.  He's not a superstar.  He's not good enough to build around. I'm a firm "no" on any trade that includes the 2017 Brooklyn pick.  I'd rather keep the pick and use the cap space to go after Hayward this Summer.

You don't trade the farm for Premium Brand Ricky Davis.    If they want a package built around Jaylen and Smart, I'm ok with it, but I really do think Jaylen has a chance to be as good as Butler in 5 years and I really do think both Bradley and Crowder each individually give you about 75% of what Butler provides.

While I think that Butler and Ricky Davis don't belong in the same sentence, I get what you're saying.
Butler has separated himself this season so far though.
25 ppg 7 rebounds, 4.5 assists on 45% FG and 33.5% from 3. He's an elite defender.
If we are going to captialize on Horford and IT being here then now is the time to do it.

It's also important to remember that the Bulls front office are in deep shiznit and wanna keep their jobs. It appears from the outside that Butler and this FO don't really get along.
They want to keep Hoiberg and his huge contract, and they dont want to lose their GM jobs.

Who is the perfect scapegoat for their incompetence? Jimmy Butler is that scapegoat. Trading him for a huge haul like a top 3 pick and Jaylen Brown is what gives them another few years at their job (in my opinion).

But yeah, adding a guy who can put up 25ppg, 7 rebounds, 4.5 assists and defends Lebron and other elite wings, whilst keeping Crowder, Bradley and Smart, is an awfully hard scenario to not get excited about.

I think Brown+Brooklyn pick this year is where I'd stop. After all, we are all hoping Brown ultimately turns into Jimmy Butler. I can understand if it's too much for Danny, but if he did pull the trigger I'd probably be okay with it.

Would love Markelle Fultz on this team though.

[Tr1boy]

Trade Crowder , Rozier plus 2018 nets pick for butler

Do not give up brown nor 2017 nets pick

[Clench123]

A monster jam 3-way deal between Celtics, Bulls, and Kings to land us both Butler and Cousins sounds way better.  Give up ALL the picks till 2020, Crowder, Amir, Zeller, Rozier, and cash.

Anything to get rid of Zeller, please do it.

[greece66]

I'd rather see where the Brooklyn pick ends up before including it in a deal.

I'd take patience over immediate results in this season; we are not winning a championship anyway.

[TheSundanceKid]

We have max cap space this summer. Guys like Hayward and Millsap are attainable. To me this limits what I would offer in a trade for a guy like Butler. He's not the only option, trade isn't even the only route. We aren't limited in that way like other teams are. So we should absolutely not initially be offering the most of all the suitors.

So the Bulls fans on realgm want Brown and both Nets picks, good luck finding someone else to deal with then. Even the rumoured deal on draft night for Bradley, Crowder and Nets pick, good luck finding someone else offering that.

If the Bulls want to trade him then find a comparable offer from around the league and then come back to us. Max I'm doing at this moment is Bradley/Crowder, Rozier and Nets 18, which is already steep IMO.

Just because we've taken the time to gather the best assets doesn't mean we compete against ourselves. I'm sure DA is strong in reminding other GMs that he is only going to offer better than the rest of the league, not far surpass that.

[TheTruthFot18]

I'd rather see where the Brooklyn pick ends up before including it in a deal.

I'd take patience over immediate results in this season; we are not winning a championship anyway.

This. Don't trade the pick until after the draft order is set. Asking price will be even higher when the other team knows what pick it will be. I would also imagine we keep it if its #1 overall.

[CoachBo]

I question whether we have the assets to get a deal done.

Despite the front page nonsense about how the Bulls should be pining for Zizic and Yaba Dabba Do.

[Evantime34]

I question whether we have the assets to get a deal done.

Despite the front page nonsense about how the Bulls should be pining for Zizic and Yaba Dabba Do.

What do you think it will take?

[CoachBo]

The Bulls should want, in my opinion, two starters and two high draft picks.

Thomas and Horford are going nowhere. I doubt that some combination of Brown - characterized as a future Topi 50 player all-time on the front page; I can't stop laughing - Bradley and Crowder moves the starter needle for them.

And they most certainly would want both Brooklyn picks.

If I could get them to go for the two picks, and Brown, I do that without blinking. That is excellent return - finally - for the Pierce and Garnett trade.

I don't see that as being enough, however, to suit them.

[PAOBoston]

Some of you guys are absolutely delirious if you think you can get Butler without giving up some important pieces. Terry Rozier and the 18 BRK pick is not gonna cut it. And, if Jaylen Brown, spare parts, and the 2 BRK picks are what it cost for Butler, we should dive Brown to the airport ASAP to make that deal.

Butler is a borderline top 10 player this year. You need to give up something good to get him. He scored 25 ppg, plays elite defense, and is signed for 3.5 years on a relatively cheap contract in regards to the new CBA/salary cap.

[Evantime34]

If we are going to trade for Butler, I'd like to see us deal Bradley or Crowder to add assets for the Bulls so we don't have to give up both our Nets picks or Brown.

Some Ideas
1.
To Boston: Jimmy Butler, Quincy Pondexter
To Chicago: Buddy Hield, Kelly Olynyk, Terry Rozier, Tyler Zeller, 2018 Nets pick, Memphis 1st
To New Orleans: Avery Bradley, Clippers first

2.
To Boston: Jimmy Butler
To Chicago: Kelly Olynyk, Terry Rozier, Tyler Zeller, 2018 Nets pick, Lakers 2017 pick
To Philly: Avery Bradley, Memphis Pick

3.
To Boston: Jimmy Butler
To Chicago: Aaron Gordon, Kelly Olynyk, Terry Rozier, Tyler Zeller, 2018 Nets pick, Memphis 1st
To Orlando: Jae Crowder, Clippers first, our best 2nd this year.

[CoachBo]

Were I Gar Forman, I'd hang up on Ainge if the two Nets picks weren't on the table.

[Evantime34]

The Bulls should want, in my opinion, two starters and two high draft picks.

Thomas and Horford are going nowhere. I doubt that some combination of Brown - characterized as a future Topi 50 player all-time on the front page; I can't stop laughing - Bradley and Crowder moves the starter needle for them.

And they most certainly would want both Brooklyn picks.

If I could get them to go for the two picks, and Brown, I do that without blinking. That is excellent return - finally - for the Pierce and Garnett trade.

I don't see that as being enough, however, to suit them.

If that's the cost, I think the C's just make small moves at the deadline. Then draft a player with the Nets pick and try to get a star in free agency.

[Granath]

Were I Gar Forman, I'd hang up on Ainge if the two Nets picks weren't on the table.

And if I were Ainge I'd hang up if Chicago asked for both Nets picks.

[Cman]

The Bulls should want, in my opinion, two starters and two high draft picks.

Thomas and Horford are going nowhere. I doubt that some combination of Brown - characterized as a future Topi 50 player all-time on the front page; I can't stop laughing - Bradley and Crowder moves the starter needle for them.

And they most certainly would want both Brooklyn picks.

If I could get them to go for the two picks, and Brown, I do that without blinking. That is excellent return - finally - for the Pierce and Garnett trade.

I don't see that as being enough, however, to suit them.

If that's the cost, I think the C's just make small moves at the deadline. Then draft a player with the Nets pick and try to get a star in free agency.

Agreed. It is hard to think of a combination of talent coming in via trade (balanced against that going out) that sacrifices the Nets picks that AND that allows the Cs to compete against GSW or Cleveland.

Rather make smaller moves designed to keep the Cs competitive in the short term, retain the Nets picks to develop our own homegrown stars, and patiently ascend to the throne in a few years time.