Bucher: Bulls shopping Butler

[kozlodoev]

Lopez is a pretty substantial upgrade over Amir. I'd like to get Lopez as a part of a deal, and if Butler is going to play SF (as he does in Chicago), then I'm prepared to cough up Crowder, Brown/Smart, Amir, and some sort of pick. And Young if needed to make salaries match.

Every stat, other than RPG indicates otherwise. Advanced stats favor Johnson's defense.

I'm not sure how you got to this assessment. Lopez is a better rebounder, better shot blocker, and a better inside scorer than Johnson. Johnson is a better passer and three point shooter, but on the balance Lopez addresses a need and Johnson, not so much. Not to mention Amir fell off a cliff this season. I'd rather have Lopez for the duration of his contract.

[jpotter33]

So do you think Danny prefers trading Crowder or Bradley in this scenario, and who do you think other teams, specifically the Bulls, would prefer?

I think there's pros and cons for both sides:

Pro keeping Bradley - While Crowder has a higher percentage from beyond the arc right now, I think Bradley's 40+% beyond the arc shooting is more sustainable. Also, Bradley's defense on the Irvings, Lowrys, and Currys of the world will be needed in the playoffs.

Pro keeping Crowder - Crowder's contract is ridiculous, and trading Bradley would help us solve that issue in 2018, along with keeping a cost-controlled starter in an era of huge contracts. Also, adding Butler at the 2 and keeping Crowder would give us much more needed size in the starting lineup. Finally, that would allow a really ridiculous small-ball lineup of IT, Smart, Butler, Crowder, and Horford that can challenge the "death lineups" of Cleveland and Golden State.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Lopez is a pretty substantial upgrade over Amir. I'd like to get Lopez as a part of a deal, and if Butler is going to play SF (as he does in Chicago), then I'm prepared to cough up Crowder, Brown/Smart, Amir, and some sort of pick. And Young if needed to make salaries match.

Every stat, other than RPG indicates otherwise. Advanced stats favor Johnson's defense.

I'm not sure how you got to this assessment. Lopez is a better rebounder, better shot blocker, and a better inside scorer than Johnson. Johnson is a better passer and three point shooter, but on the balance Lopez addresses a need and Johnson, not so much. Not to mention Amir fell off a cliff this season. I'd rather have Lopez for the duration of his contract.

Lopez is a better shot blocker, but not a significantly better rebounder or inside scorer. On top of that, Lopez is pretty bad at defending the pick-and-roll, which is a necessity if you play for Brad Stevens.

[saltlover]

Lopez is a pretty substantial upgrade over Amir. I'd like to get Lopez as a part of a deal, and if Butler is going to play SF (as he does in Chicago), then I'm prepared to cough up Crowder, Brown/Smart, Amir, and some sort of pick. And Young if needed to make salaries match.

Every stat, other than RPG indicates otherwise. Advanced stats favor Johnson's defense.

I'm not sure how you got to this assessment. Lopez is a better rebounder, better shot blocker, and a better inside scorer than Johnson. Johnson is a better passer and three point shooter, but on the balance Lopez addresses a need and Johnson, not so much. Not to mention Amir fell off a cliff this season. I'd rather have Lopez for the duration of his contract.

He is a better offensive rebounder.  He is terrible as a defensive rebounder for a big.  Worse than Amir, every single season, including this year.

I tend to be wary of a player who's been on 5 teams in 6 seasons, and has been traded three times in that span.  There's probably a reason somewhere.

[jpotter33]

[dang], this might actually be real:

Just saw that report - let me say this. Bulls management is in hot water, so they have to do something. Butler is best chip they have.

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/817117051407962114

Kyler is usually quick to shut down most "rumors."

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/817117611024678912

I do not think he gets moved. I think if they do something its in the off-season, you get more value that way.

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/817117931066851330

As I just tweeted. I doubt seriously he's someone they really move.

I agree it makes more sense during the draft when you know actual draft position, but then again A) Bulls management is seriously in hot water with calls for their head, and B) who says the pick will still be available or not traded at that point?

[saltlover]

What if they want to include Rondo?

Also, having signed Wade, do they want to go into a full rebuild? That wouldn't seem fair. Would they rather have a starter and get a third team involved to get another starter?

What about the Nuggets get the 2018 Brooklyn pick (with Johnson and Jerebko for salary matching).
The Bulls get Bradley, Gallinari, Clippers pick, and Memphis pick.
The Celtics get Mirotic and Butler.

Rondo is valueless to other teams at this point, and is only guaranteed a couple of million next season.  Trying to force him into a deal is only going to prevent the Bulls from getting the best long-term package.

[tankcity!]

George is waaaaaaaay better than Butler imo. Not worth going into a deep discussion about it. Takes away from the topic.

[sahara]

I´d love to have Butler, but I´m just giddy that we can talk about trades like this and still compete at a high level.

Thank you Based Danny!

[max215]

George is waaaaaaaay better than Butler imo. Not worth going into a deep discussion about it. Takes away from the topic.

You really expect to put this out there and not get challenged on it lol? Again, I'd just like to see one credible argument for George > Butler. He's a marginally better 3-point shooter; that's it.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

What if they want to include Rondo?

Also, having signed Wade, do they want to go into a full rebuild? That wouldn't seem fair. Would they rather have a starter and get a third team involved to get another starter?

What about the Nuggets get the 2018 Brooklyn pick (with Johnson and Jerebko for salary matching).
The Bulls get Bradley, Gallinari, Clippers pick, and Memphis pick.
The Celtics get Mirotic and Butler.

Rondo is valueless to other teams at this point, and is only guaranteed a couple of million next season.  Trying to force him into a deal is only going to prevent the Bulls from getting the best long-term package.

That's true, but maybe it'd be worth it to them to cut the dead weight.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

What if they want to include Rondo?

Also, having signed Wade, do they want to go into a full rebuild? That wouldn't seem fair. Would they rather have a starter and get a third team involved to get another starter?

What about the Nuggets get the 2018 Brooklyn pick (with Johnson and Jerebko for salary matching).
The Bulls get Bradley, Gallinari, Clippers pick, and Memphis pick.
The Celtics get Mirotic and Butler.

Rondo is valueless to other teams at this point, and is only guaranteed a couple of million next season.  Trying to force him into a deal is only going to prevent the Bulls from getting the best long-term package.

That's true, but maybe it'd be worth it to them to cut the dead weight.

Do you think they would want to try to make a team to compete around Wade, while also rebuilding?

[IDreamCeltics]

I don't really want Butler. I suspect he'd clash with IT, and there are a lot of holes in his game.

Thomas can play off the ball... Butler could play 30 minutes a game and only ten with Thomas if they gave him the Marcus Smart role.  Plenty of Buckets for everybody and having 2 players capable of having 50 point games is a pretty big deal.

[tankcity!]

George is waaaaaaaay better than Butler imo. Not worth going into a deep discussion about it. Takes away from the topic.

You really expect to put this out there and not get challenged on it lol? Again, I'd just like to see one credible argument for George > Butler. He's a marginally better 3-point shooter; that's it.

Time will tell. I mentioned why I like George so much in another thread. No point in spewing the same stuff.

Basically I think George's stats are a little misleading. Also he is a top 3 perimeter defender imo. He would put up better stats than Butler if he was on the Celtics imo. 

[rondohondo]

Bos sends : Crowder, Smart, Amir , brk 17
Chi sends : Butler, Taj Gibson

I was reading an article today the the c's want to keep Horford at center, I would assume they would want a agile defender at the PF position, Gibson would be a really nice fit at PF next to Horford.

Then you try to add a true center (Bogut type ) to round out big man rotation

IT.       / Rozier
AB.     / Green
Butler/ Brown
Taj        / KO
Horford / Bogut or Larry Sanders

Need to add a vet guard or wing for playoff run.

[saltlover]

What if they want to include Rondo?

Also, having signed Wade, do they want to go into a full rebuild? That wouldn't seem fair. Would they rather have a starter and get a third team involved to get another starter?

What about the Nuggets get the 2018 Brooklyn pick (with Johnson and Jerebko for salary matching).
The Bulls get Bradley, Gallinari, Clippers pick, and Memphis pick.
The Celtics get Mirotic and Butler.

Rondo is valueless to other teams at this point, and is only guaranteed a couple of million next season.  Trying to force him into a deal is only going to prevent the Bulls from getting the best long-term package.

That's true, but maybe it'd be worth it to them to cut the dead weight.

Yes, but "cut" is the key word.  To trade Rondo would require a lot of salary being sent back.  Butler already makes a ton, and teams that are competing are probably not going to be able to waste $15 million in traded salary for deadweight like Rondo.  It's going to make people back away from Butler.

Chicago, if they're moving on from Butler, is waiving the flag on this season.  They should just release Rondo, and move on with life.