Author Topic: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3  (Read 29045 times)

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Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #165 on: June 23, 2016, 04:54:51 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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If they're offering 24, 26, and Noel to other teams with later picks, I'd imagine we'd demand more.
If this is real, I'm guessing they're exploring whether they can get one of the top guards without breaking the bank for #3. Leverage.
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Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #166 on: June 23, 2016, 04:55:44 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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If they're offering 24, 26, and Noel to other teams with later picks, I'd imagine we'd demand more.

The one thing we don't need is more picks.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #167 on: June 23, 2016, 04:58:43 PM »

Offline Royrebirth

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If they're offering 24, 26, and Noel to other teams with later picks, I'd imagine we'd demand more.

The one thing we don't need is more picks.

True. I wouldn't mind the Laker's 2017 pick and Noel though - more reasons to beat LA.

Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #168 on: June 23, 2016, 04:59:23 PM »

Offline mef730

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From Chad Ford, mock draft 10.2, Celtics taking Dunn:

Quote
General managers picking from Nos. 4 to 30 are cursing Celtics president Danny Ainge's name right about now.

The Celtics are patiently exploring trades for the No. 3 pick, while indicating to various teams that they are interested in all of the next six prospects on the board -- Dunn, Jamal Murray, Marquese Chriss, Dragan Bender, Jaylen Brown and Buddy Hield.

Ainge's refusal to tip his hand essentially forces teams to deal with him if they want to be guaranteed to land their favorite player in the draft. It's brilliant.

Please, oh please, just once, let Chad Ford be right.

Mike

Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #169 on: June 23, 2016, 05:01:25 PM »

Offline sawick48

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The wild overvaluing of the third pick in a two person draft - and pretty much every other Celtic asset no one wants - is one of my favorite laughs from this board.

Ought to rename it Comedy Central.
That comment would have been received better a few days ago.

About a week ago, Noel was rumored to be going WITH pieces to Atlanta for Teauge, who last night was traded for a late lottery pick. In the past 24 hours weve seen it reported that we have standing offers of Noel and Okafor for 3, and just now, a solid but unspectacular player on a good contract was just traded for the 20th pick in the draft basically suggesting that draft picks have good value. Now, Givony from DX, who I trust a decent amount has also tweeted that Noels value lies in that of a late lotter pick. Furthermore everyone is talking about how from 3-8 no one knows whatll happen which devalues pick 3 a bit, but it also means that there is a seperate 3-8 tier far more valuable than the 9-whatever tier which Noel seems to be valued in.

Basically, everything weve seen suggests that the 3rd pick in a 2-player draft is in fact pretty valuable.

I refer mostly to the inane comments in these threads suggesting that neither Noel and Okafor are worth a lottery pick. That is jump-the-shark style ridiculous.

And it shocks me not to see questionable sources suddenly trusted - when they tell you what you want to hear.

Either make the Celtics significantly better than they are at the moment, and refusal to trade the 3 for one of them is the kind of neanderthal thinking that will keep this franchise mired in mediocrity forever.

The draft is hardly the be-all and end-all of how the Celtics get better, and statements like the above remind me of the ill-informed tantrums thrown here when Al Jefferson, along with a bag of Ainge's trash, were traded for Kevin Garnett.

No it is not the end all be all, that is true.  Also true is the fact that plenty of people here over value pick #3.

but the thinking that Jahlil Okafor makes us instantly better or significantly better isn't true.  He is the exact opposite of everything needed from a starting big in order to be a championship contender in today's NBA.  He plays no defense, has no range, clogs the lane, and isn't an effective rebounder.  He quite literally is Al Jefferson, but with even less defense, if you can imagine that.  The same Al Jefferson that in his prime this year, was on a team that made it no further than we did.  And that was on a team that had the one quality you NEED in bunches in order to stomach having that sort of player at Center - tons of perimeter shooters; of which the Celtics have very few. 

You say that Okafor is worth the #3 pick.  On paper I think that's a fair argument.  But in reality, when it comes to on court production, I would argue fiercely that trading for Okafor does FAR more in terms of us staying at and competing for mediocrity than either keeping the pick or going a different route would.  And it isn't close.

Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #170 on: June 23, 2016, 05:02:20 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Completely disagree with everything you say about Okafor.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #171 on: June 23, 2016, 05:05:49 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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If they're offering 24, 26, and Noel to other teams with later picks, I'd imagine we'd demand more.

The one thing we don't need is more picks.
I hear ya but I disagree.  If this draft runs as deep as many are now saying, there will be increased temptation for teams to trade down for multiple picks.   With 16, 23, 24, 26, 31 and 35, it would be possible (maybe along with players) to target a couple of guys Danny loves and trade up.  Or, get a pick or 2 in the 2017 draft.

Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #172 on: June 23, 2016, 05:09:26 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Completely disagree with everything you say about Okafor.
It's weird how much everyone has overreacted to Draymond Green.  It's still a big man's game.

Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #173 on: June 23, 2016, 05:13:31 PM »

Offline Chief Macho

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Tom Moore: #NBA source on Jahlil Okafor/Nerlens Noel: ‘I think everybody’s overvaluing those two guys. Jeff Teague is about the level you’re going to get for Nerlens Noel.’

Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #174 on: June 23, 2016, 05:17:50 PM »

Offline crimcartel

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The wild overvaluing of the third pick in a two person draft - and pretty much every other Celtic asset no one wants - is one of my favorite laughs from this board.

Ought to rename it Comedy Central.
That comment would have been received better a few days ago.

About a week ago, Noel was rumored to be going WITH pieces to Atlanta for Teauge, who last night was traded for a late lottery pick. In the past 24 hours weve seen it reported that we have standing offers of Noel and Okafor for 3, and just now, a solid but unspectacular player on a good contract was just traded for the 20th pick in the draft basically suggesting that draft picks have good value. Now, Givony from DX, who I trust a decent amount has also tweeted that Noels value lies in that of a late lotter pick. Furthermore everyone is talking about how from 3-8 no one knows whatll happen which devalues pick 3 a bit, but it also means that there is a seperate 3-8 tier far more valuable than the 9-whatever tier which Noel seems to be valued in.

Basically, everything weve seen suggests that the 3rd pick in a 2-player draft is in fact pretty valuable.

I refer mostly to the inane comments in these threads suggesting that neither Noel and Okafor are worth a lottery pick. That is jump-the-shark style ridiculous.

And it shocks me not to see questionable sources suddenly trusted - when they tell you what you want to hear.

Either make the Celtics significantly better than they are at the moment, and refusal to trade the 3 for one of them is the kind of neanderthal thinking that will keep this franchise mired in mediocrity forever.

The draft is hardly the be-all and end-all of how the Celtics get better, and statements like the above remind me of the ill-informed tantrums thrown here when Al Jefferson, along with a bag of Ainge's trash, were traded for Kevin Garnett.

No it is not the end all be all, that is true.  Also true is the fact that plenty of people here over value pick #3.

but the thinking that Jahlil Okafor makes us instantly better or significantly better isn't true.  He is the exact opposite of everything needed from a starting big in order to be a championship contender in today's NBA.  He plays no defense, has no range, clogs the lane, and isn't an effective rebounder.  He quite literally is Al Jefferson, but with even less defense, if you can imagine that.  The same Al Jefferson that in his prime this year, was on a team that made it no further than we did.  And that was on a team that had the one quality you NEED in bunches in order to stomach having that sort of player at Center - tons of perimeter shooters; of which the Celtics have very few. 

You say that Okafor is worth the #3 pick.  On paper I think that's a fair argument.  But in reality, when it comes to on court production, I would argue fiercely that trading for Okafor does FAR more in terms of us staying at and competing for mediocrity than either keeping the pick or going a different route would.  And it isn't close.


Guess who this player is based on his NBA.com scouting report and rookie nba stats

Strengths:
 *Stat sheet stuffer
 *Skilled passer
 *Excellent rebounder
 *Can score in the post
 *Good ball handler
 *Can shoot the 3
 *Great understanding of the game

Weaknesses:
 *Who does he defend?
 *Doesn’t have great lateral quickness

NBA projection:
 He has been projected as a late first-round pick. The consensus is that Hewon’t be able to guard either forward position because true small forwards will be quicker and true power forwards taller and able to post him and shoot over him. But he’s got an arsenal of skills, including passing, rebounding and the ability to knock down the 3-pointer that can make him valuable.



Rookie year stats: 2.9 pts per game 3.3 rebs  .7 Assts .3 Blks



who is this player?

Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #175 on: June 23, 2016, 05:19:08 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Completely disagree with everything you say about Okafor.
It's weird how much everyone has overreacted to Draymond Green.  It's still a big man's game.

It's one of the things people do. The Heat win a couple of titles without a true center and everyone thinks that's the way to go. And I'm thinking, "Umm, they had LeBron."
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Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #176 on: June 23, 2016, 05:21:51 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Tom Moore: #NBA source on Jahlil Okafor/Nerlens Noel: ‘I think everybody’s overvaluing those two guys. Jeff Teague is about the level you’re going to get for Nerlens Noel.’
And Teague was got for, basically, pick #12. I just saw this, too:

Quote
Jonathan Givony
‏@DraftExpress

Market for Nerlens Noel seems to be far overstated by some. More likely he fetches a late lottery pick in a trade as opposed to top-5 pick.
If this is true, maybe we can get Noel for 16 and 23 and call it a day.
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Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #177 on: June 23, 2016, 05:22:00 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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The wild overvaluing of the third pick in a two person draft - and pretty much every other Celtic asset no one wants - is one of my favorite laughs from this board.

Ought to rename it Comedy Central.
That comment would have been received better a few days ago.

About a week ago, Noel was rumored to be going WITH pieces to Atlanta for Teauge, who last night was traded for a late lottery pick. In the past 24 hours weve seen it reported that we have standing offers of Noel and Okafor for 3, and just now, a solid but unspectacular player on a good contract was just traded for the 20th pick in the draft basically suggesting that draft picks have good value. Now, Givony from DX, who I trust a decent amount has also tweeted that Noels value lies in that of a late lotter pick. Furthermore everyone is talking about how from 3-8 no one knows whatll happen which devalues pick 3 a bit, but it also means that there is a seperate 3-8 tier far more valuable than the 9-whatever tier which Noel seems to be valued in.

Basically, everything weve seen suggests that the 3rd pick in a 2-player draft is in fact pretty valuable.

I refer mostly to the inane comments in these threads suggesting that neither Noel and Okafor are worth a lottery pick. That is jump-the-shark style ridiculous.

And it shocks me not to see questionable sources suddenly trusted - when they tell you what you want to hear.

Either make the Celtics significantly better than they are at the moment, and refusal to trade the 3 for one of them is the kind of neanderthal thinking that will keep this franchise mired in mediocrity forever.

The draft is hardly the be-all and end-all of how the Celtics get better, and statements like the above remind me of the ill-informed tantrums thrown here when Al Jefferson, along with a bag of Ainge's trash, were traded for Kevin Garnett.

No it is not the end all be all, that is true.  Also true is the fact that plenty of people here over value pick #3.

but the thinking that Jahlil Okafor makes us instantly better or significantly better isn't true.  He is the exact opposite of everything needed from a starting big in order to be a championship contender in today's NBA.  He plays no defense, has no range, clogs the lane, and isn't an effective rebounder.  He quite literally is Al Jefferson, but with even less defense, if you can imagine that.  The same Al Jefferson that in his prime this year, was on a team that made it no further than we did.  And that was on a team that had the one quality you NEED in bunches in order to stomach having that sort of player at Center - tons of perimeter shooters; of which the Celtics have very few. 

You say that Okafor is worth the #3 pick.  On paper I think that's a fair argument.  But in reality, when it comes to on court production, I would argue fiercely that trading for Okafor does FAR more in terms of us staying at and competing for mediocrity than either keeping the pick or going a different route would.  And it isn't close.


Guess who this player is based on his NBA.com scouting report and rookie nba stats

Strengths:
 *Stat sheet stuffer
 *Skilled passer
 *Excellent rebounder
 *Can score in the post
 *Good ball handler
 *Can shoot the 3
 *Great understanding of the game

Weaknesses:
 *Who does he defend?
 *Doesn’t have great lateral quickness

NBA projection:
 He has been projected as a late first-round pick. The consensus is that Hewon’t be able to guard either forward position because true small forwards will be quicker and true power forwards taller and able to post him and shoot over him. But he’s got an arsenal of skills, including passing, rebounding and the ability to knock down the 3-pointer that can make him valuable.



Rookie year stats: 2.9 pts per game 3.3 rebs  .7 Assts .3 Blks



who is this player?

Taking a wild guess....

Draymond Green?
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Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #178 on: June 23, 2016, 05:24:48 PM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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The wild overvaluing of the third pick in a two person draft - and pretty much every other Celtic asset no one wants - is one of my favorite laughs from this board.

Ought to rename it Comedy Central.
That comment would have been received better a few days ago.

About a week ago, Noel was rumored to be going WITH pieces to Atlanta for Teauge, who last night was traded for a late lottery pick. In the past 24 hours weve seen it reported that we have standing offers of Noel and Okafor for 3, and just now, a solid but unspectacular player on a good contract was just traded for the 20th pick in the draft basically suggesting that draft picks have good value. Now, Givony from DX, who I trust a decent amount has also tweeted that Noels value lies in that of a late lotter pick. Furthermore everyone is talking about how from 3-8 no one knows whatll happen which devalues pick 3 a bit, but it also means that there is a seperate 3-8 tier far more valuable than the 9-whatever tier which Noel seems to be valued in.

Basically, everything weve seen suggests that the 3rd pick in a 2-player draft is in fact pretty valuable.

I refer mostly to the inane comments in these threads suggesting that neither Noel and Okafor are worth a lottery pick. That is jump-the-shark style ridiculous.

And it shocks me not to see questionable sources suddenly trusted - when they tell you what you want to hear.

Either make the Celtics significantly better than they are at the moment, and refusal to trade the 3 for one of them is the kind of neanderthal thinking that will keep this franchise mired in mediocrity forever.

The draft is hardly the be-all and end-all of how the Celtics get better, and statements like the above remind me of the ill-informed tantrums thrown here when Al Jefferson, along with a bag of Ainge's trash, were traded for Kevin Garnett.

No it is not the end all be all, that is true.  Also true is the fact that plenty of people here over value pick #3.

but the thinking that Jahlil Okafor makes us instantly better or significantly better isn't true.  He is the exact opposite of everything needed from a starting big in order to be a championship contender in today's NBA.  He plays no defense, has no range, clogs the lane, and isn't an effective rebounder.  He quite literally is Al Jefferson, but with even less defense, if you can imagine that.  The same Al Jefferson that in his prime this year, was on a team that made it no further than we did.  And that was on a team that had the one quality you NEED in bunches in order to stomach having that sort of player at Center - tons of perimeter shooters; of which the Celtics have very few. 

You say that Okafor is worth the #3 pick.  On paper I think that's a fair argument.  But in reality, when it comes to on court production, I would argue fiercely that trading for Okafor does FAR more in terms of us staying at and competing for mediocrity than either keeping the pick or going a different route would.  And it isn't close.


Guess who this player is based on his NBA.com scouting report and rookie nba stats

Strengths:
 *Stat sheet stuffer
 *Skilled passer
 *Excellent rebounder
 *Can score in the post
 *Good ball handler
 *Can shoot the 3
 *Great understanding of the game

Weaknesses:
 *Who does he defend?
 *Doesn’t have great lateral quickness

NBA projection:
 He has been projected as a late first-round pick. The consensus is that Hewon’t be able to guard either forward position because true small forwards will be quicker and true power forwards taller and able to post him and shoot over him. But he’s got an arsenal of skills, including passing, rebounding and the ability to knock down the 3-pointer that can make him valuable.



Rookie year stats: 2.9 pts per game 3.3 rebs  .7 Assts .3 Blks



who is this player?

I know I know!!!! It's Draymond Green!


Re: Stein- Philly ramping up efforts for #3
« Reply #179 on: June 23, 2016, 05:30:48 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Tom Moore: #NBA source on Jahlil Okafor/Nerlens Noel: ‘I think everybody’s overvaluing those two guys. Jeff Teague is about the level you’re going to get for Nerlens Noel.’
And Teague was got for, basically, pick #12. I just saw this, too:

Quote
Jonathan Givony
‏@DraftExpress

Market for Nerlens Noel seems to be far overstated by some. More likely he fetches a late lottery pick in a trade as opposed to top-5 pick.
If this is true, maybe we can get Noel for 16 and 23 and call it a day.

But...Noel is supposed to be this super Bill Russell/Dennis Rodman/Ben Wallace defender who is absolutely the sort of building block any team would want.  You're not telling me that playing two years for one of the worst NBA teams anyone has ever seen and demonstrating that he can't shoot a lick has possibly harmed his value as an asset, are you?

Mike