Author Topic: Celtics News  (Read 3850738 times)

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Re: Celtics News
« Reply #3420 on: Today at 10:22:02 AM »

Online Silas

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Everything Stevens said about Paul George is true. It does not mean that he is better than Brown.  More complementary is not the same as better.  They have to make up for that with the picks.  And maybe what they get if they trade George.

They suggestion that he is one of the most impactful players when it comes to winning isn't only not true, it's laughable. I don't care what analytics say, guys need to be on the court to impact winning.

I agree with you that guys need to be on the court to impact winning, however, the number of games needed is a subjective point....remember KP missed lots of games but had an impact on winning.  Also, a minor point, Brad did not say George is one of the most impactful players, he said said George is one of the more impactful players.  I believe if George can stay healthy, a big if, the Cs should have a good season and, who knows, maybe make it to the finals again.  I am approaching this season with a positive outlook...
I've lived through some terrible things in my life, some of which actually happened.   -  Mark Twain

Re: Celtics News
« Reply #3421 on: Today at 10:59:47 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Everything Stevens said about Paul George is true. It does not mean that he is better than Brown.  More complementary is not the same as better.  They have to make up for that with the picks.  And maybe what they get if they trade George.

They suggestion that he is one of the most impactful players when it comes to winning isn't only not true, it's laughable. I don't care what analytics say, guys need to be on the court to impact winning.

I agree with you that guys need to be on the court to impact winning, however, the number of games needed is a subjective point....remember KP missed lots of games but had an impact on winning.  Also, a minor point, Brad did not say George is one of the most impactful players, he said said George is one of the more impactful players.  I believe if George can stay healthy, a big if, the Cs should have a good season and, who knows, maybe make it to the finals again.  I am approaching this season with a positive outlook...

What is the definition of "one of the more impactful" players?  What percentile?

The past two seasons George has *combined* for 3.5 win shares total.  That's less than Walsh or Scheierman gave last year alone.

It's just a stupid thing to say, and it's not true.
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Re: Celtics News
« Reply #3422 on: Today at 03:36:12 PM »

Online Silas

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Everything Stevens said about Paul George is true. It does not mean that he is better than Brown.  More complementary is not the same as better.  They have to make up for that with the picks.  And maybe what they get if they trade George.

They suggestion that he is one of the most impactful players when it comes to winning isn't only not true, it's laughable. I don't care what analytics say, guys need to be on the court to impact winning.

I agree with you that guys need to be on the court to impact winning, however, the number of games needed is a subjective point....remember KP missed lots of games but had an impact on winning.  Also, a minor point, Brad did not say George is one of the most impactful players, he said said George is one of the more impactful players.  I believe if George can stay healthy, a big if, the Cs should have a good season and, who knows, maybe make it to the finals again.  I am approaching this season with a positive outlook...

What is the definition of "one of the more impactful" players?  What percentile?

The past two seasons George has *combined* for 3.5 win shares total.  That's less than Walsh or Scheierman gave last year alone.

It's just a stupid thing to say, and it's not true.

Take it easy Roy!  You are trying to have it both ways...
First you said "I don't care what analytics say, guys need to be on the court to impact winning".  Ok, I said I agree with you that guys need to be on the court to impact winning, however, the number of games needed is a subjective point....remember KP missed lots of games but had an impact on winning.

Then you followed with the following..."What is the definition of "one of the more impactful" players?  What percentile?
The past two seasons George has *combined* for 3.5 win shares total."

Let's agree that we want George to play as many games as possible and that we hope his impact on winning will be positive.   His impact on the game will be a subjective assessment, and that is not, as you like to say, "a stupid thing to say and it's not true".  Let's wait till later during the season an assess what has happened before we imply someone has said a stupid thing....
« Last Edit: Today at 03:43:49 PM by Silas »
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Re: Celtics News
« Reply #3423 on: Today at 04:39:45 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Everything Stevens said about Paul George is true. It does not mean that he is better than Brown.  More complementary is not the same as better.  They have to make up for that with the picks.  And maybe what they get if they trade George.

They suggestion that he is one of the most impactful players when it comes to winning isn't only not true, it's laughable. I don't care what analytics say, guys need to be on the court to impact winning.

I agree with you that guys need to be on the court to impact winning, however, the number of games needed is a subjective point....remember KP missed lots of games but had an impact on winning.  Also, a minor point, Brad did not say George is one of the most impactful players, he said said George is one of the more impactful players.  I believe if George can stay healthy, a big if, the Cs should have a good season and, who knows, maybe make it to the finals again.  I am approaching this season with a positive outlook...

What is the definition of "one of the more impactful" players?  What percentile?

The past two seasons George has *combined* for 3.5 win shares total.  That's less than Walsh or Scheierman gave last year alone.

It's just a stupid thing to say, and it's not true.

Take it easy Roy!  You are trying to have it both ways...
First you said "I don't care what analytics say, guys need to be on the court to impact winning".  Ok, I said I agree with you that guys need to be on the court to impact winning, however, the number of games needed is a subjective point....remember KP missed lots of games but had an impact on winning.

Then you followed with the following..."What is the definition of "one of the more impactful" players?  What percentile?
The past two seasons George has *combined* for 3.5 win shares total."

Let's agree that we want George to play as many games as possible and that we hope his impact on winning will be positive.   His impact on the game will be a subjective assessment, and that is not, as you like to say, "a stupid thing to say and it's not true".  Let's wait till later during the season an assess what has happened before we imply someone has said a stupid thing....

How am I having it both ways?  I'm not even sure what the other way is, in that George is both frequently unavailable (and thus, not only not positively impacting games, but presumably negatively impacting them by taking up a roster spot but not playing) *and* he sucks in terms of at least one manner of measuring impact, win shares.  That's not both ways, that's one way stated twice.

And, I'm just saying that part of Brad's pitch is a big steaming pile of malarkey.  But, you seemed to defend Brad's use of the term "one of the more impactful players", so what's that based upon?  Subjective can be fine, but it has to be based on something.  Otherwise, it's just an unfounded opinion.

You say I'm wrong.  What's your criteria?  A hope and a prayer?  Or are you basing it on anything at all?  The onus is on those making or defending the statement "one of the more impactful players in terms of winning" to defend that statement.  Let's hear that defense.

The one Brad Stevens quote I buy into this off-season:  "I might be wrong. I'm not gonna stand here and be defensive about that."

If Brad doesn't even have complete confidence in the trade, why should I?  At this point, he's just spinning things like a politician.

« Last Edit: Today at 04:54:06 PM by Roy H. »
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Re: Celtics News
« Reply #3424 on: Today at 04:59:47 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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If the Cs are going to match last year?s regular season success in terms of wins in a tougher EC, I don?t think it?s going to be because of a rejuvenated and healthy PG. I think it?s going to be because a 100% JT is scoring in the 30s, DW and PP  are playing solid roles consistently, Q takes a step forward offensively, MR is healthy and plays excellent D and boards like a madman, PG is a consistent third or fourth contributor when he plays, and one or two of the random wings makes an unexpected huge leap. 

But I?m not counting on PG to be a JB replacement - just hoping he plays good D and gets an efficient 12-15 ppg when he plays.

Re: Celtics News
« Reply #3425 on: Today at 05:28:08 PM »

Online Silas

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Everything Stevens said about Paul George is true. It does not mean that he is better than Brown.  More complementary is not the same as better.  They have to make up for that with the picks.  And maybe what they get if they trade George.

They suggestion that he is one of the most impactful players when it comes to winning isn't only not true, it's laughable. I don't care what analytics say, guys need to be on the court to impact winning.

I agree with you that guys need to be on the court to impact winning, however, the number of games needed is a subjective point....remember KP missed lots of games but had an impact on winning.  Also, a minor point, Brad did not say George is one of the most impactful players, he said said George is one of the more impactful players.  I believe if George can stay healthy, a big if, the Cs should have a good season and, who knows, maybe make it to the finals again.  I am approaching this season with a positive outlook...

What is the definition of "one of the more impactful" players?  What percentile?

The past two seasons George has *combined* for 3.5 win shares total.  That's less than Walsh or Scheierman gave last year alone.

It's just a stupid thing to say, and it's not true.

Take it easy Roy!  You are trying to have it both ways...
First you said "I don't care what analytics say, guys need to be on the court to impact winning".  Ok, I said I agree with you that guys need to be on the court to impact winning, however, the number of games needed is a subjective point....remember KP missed lots of games but had an impact on winning.

Then you followed with the following..."What is the definition of "one of the more impactful" players?  What percentile?
The past two seasons George has *combined* for 3.5 win shares total."

Let's agree that we want George to play as many games as possible and that we hope his impact on winning will be positive.   His impact on the game will be a subjective assessment, and that is not, as you like to say, "a stupid thing to say and it's not true".  Let's wait till later during the season an assess what has happened before we imply someone has said a stupid thing....

How am I having it both ways?
Quote
you said I don't care what analytics say, then used analytics to defend your point
I'm not even sure what the other way is, in that George is both frequently unavailable (and thus, not only not positively impacting games, but presumably negatively impacting them by taking up a roster spot but not playing) *and* he sucks in terms of at least one manner of measuring impact, win shares.  That's not both ways, that's one way stated twice.

And, I'm just saying that part of Brad's pitch is a big steaming pile of malarkey.  But, you seemed to defend Brad's use of the term "one of the more impactful players", so what's that based upon?
Quote
Check carefully, I did not defend his words at all, I stated that you misquoted his statement using most vs. more
Subjective can be fine, but it has to be based on something.  Otherwise, it's just an unfounded opinion.

You say I'm wrong.
Quote
wrong about what?  I just said you miss-quoted Brad.
  What's your criteria?  A hope and a prayer?  Or are you basing it on anything at all?  The onus is on those making or defending the statement "one of the more impactful players in terms of winning" to defend that statement.  Let's hear that defense.
Quote
Roy this is a sports forum where we all have fun....this is not a court room.

The one Brad Stevens quote I buy into this off-season:  "I might be wrong. I'm not gonna stand here and be defensive about that."

If Brad doesn't even have complete confidence in the trade, why should I?
Quote
Fine, you don't like the trade.
At this point, he's just spinning things like a politician.
I've lived through some terrible things in my life, some of which actually happened.   -  Mark Twain