Rumor: Celtics, among others, in contact with Sixers about Noel/Okafor

[Tr1boy]

I dont think a trade will happen

Noel has baggage .  His off court conduct (trashing rental home), injury can re occur, cant shoot, still ways away physically


I like okafor but the more i think about it the more he wont play in the 4th. Just not quick enough to guard multiple positions.  He needs to slim down to 250 .  But then will he lose his ability to bully his way around the ,post?  Another player that cant shoot

Danny tells 76ers we will offer the 16, 23, rozier, young and maybe a future 1st. I dont really care if you want Dunn.

Deal wont happen imo

[Boris Badenov]

If they're desperate I wonder whether we can get them to throw in Saric. Maybe if we send them another middling pick back (35 or 23).

Then perhaps Noel and Bradley plus picks for Butler.

We end up with Butler and Saric.

A pipe dream maybe.

[celticinorlando]

Noel is not worth the 16 pick let alone the third. He adds zero offensively. Bad knees and a very limited player.

[Granath]

Everyone who relies on advanced stats - in addition to that mistake - to hate on Okafor, makes another mistake. He's going to improve. He's 19.

Sorry to break it to you.

I would not be p---ed to hear Okafor going to the Celtics for this very reason. This time last year people felt it was him or Towns that would go #1. All of a sudden after one year he's an NBA washout to people on this board. Celtics fans don't like him because he got into a fight after the game and is perceived as soft on this board. He's a star caliber guy. Which is why he's hated here. If this was a role player on the team like Mickey that got into that fight we would have all been behind him calling him tough etc...come on

No, people have reservations about him (this has nothing to do with like/dislike) because he posted some of the most empty statistics in NBA history last year. On the court he was bad by almost every measure. Really bad. He's supposed to be an offensive wiz and yet his team was 6 points better with him off the floor. Every advanced metric was so negative that it consistently put him in the bottom of the league. There's no way to look at his performance last year and take much of anything positive from it. 

His knuckle-headed incidents are expected of a kid. I have no problem with those. But there are quite a few rumors about his conditioning being sub-par, there are rumors about his lack of dedication to his game and finally there are questions about how he fits into the modern-day NBA game and particularly into Brad's system. Those are all pretty big red flags.

With all that said - and I've been critical of Okafor's game - my biggest issue hasn't been with Okafor so much as a few (ahem) fine upstanding members of this forum thinking they should give away the farm to get him. Go back and read threads from a month ago and you'll find certain simpletons willing to give up multiple 1sts, Smart and Bradley to get him. A month later and the discussion about the cost of acquisition is entirely different.

If we get Okafor for a reasonable price I'm ok with a deal like that. After all he has enough potential to see if Brad can turn around his game to make him more productive on both ends of the floor and work within a team concept. God knows the Cs need some big men on this roster. But he's not a guy you give up the farm to get because his on-the-court play last year raised some serious questions about his long-term potential.

In short, don't overpay like Bo and LarBrd consistently want to do. You don't often win in this league by overpaying for questionable assets.

People may be surprised, but I'd rather acquire Okafor more than Butler. First, he'd be cheaper. Secondly, Okafor - if it all works out - could be a bigger upgrade over Sullinger than Butler would be over Bradley.

[dreamgreen]

Danny has all the leverage here so I doubt he rushes into a deal. I would be shocked if it were a trade straight up #3 for either Noel or Okafor. Both teams have a lot of picks now and in the future and both have a few assets in players to move. More interesting to me is could you force Phillies hand and see if they would pick Dunn #1 if you have a deal on the table with another team that will take and keep Dunn at #3? Basically Danny has little motivation to do a trade now unless Philly sweetens the deal and we all know Danny is a pig and will ask for a lot. 

[celticinorlando]

Only deal you make at 3 is if it gets you Jimmy Butler. He is the guy to get there. Not sure the bulls are interested in okafor or Noel in a three way deal. But if Boston comes out of this draft with only Noel and future picks for the three...really a bad deal

[BDeCosta26]

Everyone who relies on advanced stats - in addition to that mistake - to hate on Okafor, makes another mistake. He's going to improve. He's 19.

Sorry to break it to you.

Advanced stats are one of a vast array of resources people use to judge a player. Just cause you don't like them doesn't mean they're wrong. Most NBA franchises use them heavily.

Okafor will improve. I don't think anyone is saying he won't. But the truth about his skillset is that he HAS to be featured in the offense. You have to design the offense around him, because he's almost useless without the ball in his hands in the post. Then you have to try to hide his terrible defense on the other end.

He will improve. He's gonna be a good player. Al Jefferson was a good player. With some luck, he MAY turn out to be a slightly more improved version of big Al. Without it, he may never even get that good. Regardless, you don't win anything with Al Jefferson as one of your best players.

No ones "hating" on him, we just think he's not worth the 3rd pick. I'd probably give up the 16th pick for him.

[MetroGlobe]

. . . but I'd rather acquire Okafor more than Butler. First, he'd be cheaper. Secondly, Okafor - if it all works out - could be a bigger upgrade over Sullinger than Butler would be over Bradley.

This is the key point right here.  We have the opportunity for a massive upgrade at a key position - center.  Sully is gone, and Amir only has another year left.  But Okafor will be under contract for a couple more years.  Assuming Ainge thinks his mentality is solid enough, then don't we trust CBS to teach him the fundamentals to become at least a decent defensive presence?  Who knows, maybe he can even develop a 3pt shot with enough practice.

[Bobshot]

A reminder that Okafor's numbers were much better early in the season when he was the starting center, and Noel was not playing. His rebounding dropped sharply when Noel started at the 5 and he moved to the 4--which he couldn't play. Noel "vultured" a lot of those rebounds.

Okafor really had two seasons. His true numbers are probably the early ones--the ones you should go by. He was neck and neck with Townes for ROY for the first 2 months. Nice player around the basket.

[BDeCosta26]

A reminder that Okafor's numbers were much better early in the season when he was the starting center, and Noel was not playing. His rebounding dropped sharply when Noel started at the 5 and he moved to the 4--which he couldn't play. Noel "vultured" a lot of those rebounds.

Okafor really had two seasons. His true numbers are probably the early ones--the ones you should go by. He was neck and neck with Townes for ROY for the first 2 months. Nice player around the basket.

He's elite around the basket, I'm not sure there's a player in the NBA more gifted on the post. He's still a p--- poor defender who can't switch anything, a mediocre rebounder for a big 7 footer who is always next to the basket, hasn't shown a consistent jump shot, or an ability to pass out of the double team consistently. Certainly won't be a Monroe or Gasol level passer. Because of this, you have to design your offense around ISO post-ups when he's in the game. And he's not good enough to justify doing that if your team is any good.

Fine player, just not worth #3

[Ilikesports17]

A reminder that Okafor's numbers were much better early in the season when he was the starting center, and Noel was not playing. His rebounding dropped sharply when Noel started at the 5 and he moved to the 4--which he couldn't play. Noel "vultured" a lot of those rebounds.

Okafor really had two seasons. His true numbers are probably the early ones--the ones you should go by. He was neck and neck with Townes for ROY for the first 2 months. Nice player around the basket.

Okafor started just 3 games at PF this entire season according to ESPN.

[MetroGlobe]

hasn't shown a consistent jump shot, or an ability to pass out of the double team consistently. Certainly won't be a Monroe or Gasol level passer.

First of all, he has a very nice mid-range jumper.  Many of his points came at the elbow.  He was 7 percentage points above the league average inside of 15 feet: http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=1626143.

Secondly passing is an innate skill, sure.  But it is absolutely something that can be developed.  Players like Shaq, Motumbo, and Mourning were terrible at passing out of double teams in college.  After some coaching and development, each became quite good.  Much of that comes down to the offensive scheme being played, and whether teammates get to the right spots.  Don't we trust CBS to design ways to get players open when Okafor gets doubled?

[Casperian]

. . . but I'd rather acquire Okafor more than Butler. First, he'd be cheaper. Secondly, Okafor - if it all works out - could be a bigger upgrade over Sullinger than Butler would be over Bradley.

This is the key point right here.  We have the opportunity for a massive upgrade at a key position - center.  Sully is gone, and Amir only has another year left.  But Okafor will be under contract for a couple more years.  Assuming Ainge thinks his mentality is solid enough, then don't we trust CBS to teach him the fundamentals to become at least a decent defensive presence?  Who knows, maybe he can even develop a 3pt shot with enough practice.

What does it matter how big of an upgrade the new player x is to the old player y? We're not in a position where we just have to finetune the team a bit and compete for a championship, we should neither draft nor trade for need. Avery Bradley, a fine player, is a career role-player.

Jimmy Butler is an all-star, Okafor is a disappointment, that's all that should matter.

[BDeCosta26]

hasn't shown a consistent jump shot, or an ability to pass out of the double team consistently. Certainly won't be a Monroe or Gasol level passer.

First of all, he has a very nice mid-range jumper.  Many of his points came at the elbow.  He was 7 percentage points above the league average inside of 15 feet: http://nbasavant.com/player.php?player_id=1626143.

Secondly passing is an innate skill, sure.  But it is absolutely something that can be developed.  Players like Shaq, Motumbo, and Mourning were terrible at passing out of double teams in college.  After some coaching and development, each became quite good.  Much of that comes down to the offensive scheme being played, and whether teammates get to the right spots.  Don't we trust CBS to design ways to get players open when Okafor gets doubled?

Okay, but that's hardly a solid jump shooter. One of The reasons Philly was so bad on offense last year was because none of their bigs could shoot solidly from the 18+FT. He may improve that. He may improve his passing. He may improve his defense. Brad would put him in position to take advantage of double teams.

But even if he does, he's Al Jefferson. And a 20 year old Al Jefferson isn't worth out best asset

[Eddie20]

Everyone who relies on advanced stats - in addition to that mistake - to hate on Okafor, makes another mistake. He's going to improve. He's 19.

Sorry to break it to you.

Sorry to break it to you, but he's actually 20 and will be 21 later this year.

It's ironic that you think Okafor will improve, but don't think an 18 year old Bender will. Interesting.