sign howard

[Big333223]

The Lakers went from 45 wins in 2012-2013 with Howard to 27 wins the next year without him. 

The Lakers went from 41 wins in a 66 game season (62.1% winning percentage) without Howard to 45 wins in a 82 game season (54.9%) with him.  He didn't improve their team.

That directly contradicts your opinion that "He's made every team he played for better".  It's simply a false statement.

It is as you put it, "simply a false statement" only if you ignore that the Lakers: A. Won more games after acquiring Dwight   B.  Were 18 games worse after he left, and C.  Still haven't been able to replace his production three years later.  Other than those facts that contradict your premise I agree it's quite black and white.

Since it's, "simple" we also don't need to consider that that the Lakers went through two head coaches, three offenses, and a season ending achilles injury to Kobe Bryant that year...

Haters gonna hate, but objectively Dwight has only made teams he's played for better.

You seem to be confused about this.

[SHAQATTACK]

Sign Bozo

[MBunge]

No doubt in my mind you can find cheaper alternatives out there. They won't give you his production but could go a long ways.  Stopgaps if necessary. 

I also don't think you'll see him only getting 3 years. I'm operating under the assumption he won't.

I hear you. 

First, I want to know what you think those cheaper alternatives are.  Because I'm hungry for the Celts to have some real, productive big men.

So give me some names.  If not Dwight, who?  And how much will it cost?


Second, if you think Dwight can only be had on a four year deal -- you may be right, I'm not so sure -- then I'm with you.  Dwight for four years is too big a risk.

For starters, you can bring back Amir.  I think Mozgov is someone I'd kick the tires on.  Biyombo if he opts out.  Speights is another serviceable alternative.  If they want to toss an offer at one of the restricted guys, I could be down with that.  (Ezeli, Powell).  I'm sure there are other guys that I'm not even considering here. 

I realize none of these guys move the needle for most people in regards to the splash factor but I think are decent alternatives that would help while not crippling the team, either.

None of those guys are significant improvements on what we already have on this first round exit roster.

Mosgov is a role player.  Biyombo is a role player.  Ezeli and powell are role players.  Ezeli probably the best out of those,  but hes not going to make this team a force in the East.

Maybe Monroe of he's available, but In still not sure if he will fit the team or not.

I get the question marks with Howard, i just dont think tgere id's anybody else available right now who has a better chance at pushing us to contender status.

All weve had lately (bar Thomas) has been role players coming and going, making a minimal impact along the way.  We need more then that.

I think the guy that really moves the bar for this franchise going forward is going to be a swing/wing & not a big, whether its acquired via FA, draft, or trade.  I don't think it's going to be in the form of a big man & certainly not a soon to be 31 year old.

At some point, however, you have to do something.  What's that saying about a crisis?  Doing the wrong thing is often better than doing nothing?

Bring back Amir and pair him with Howard and Boston, even if Ainge did nothing else, would be significantly better next year.  A better team is more attractive to free agents and more attractive to stars looking to force their way out of a bad situation.

Waiting for the perfect move can leave you waiting forever.

Mike

[hagar55voa]

You've got to be kidding...Just look at his track record...

[LooseCannon]

If Ainge talked to McHale before deciding on whether to offer a contract to Howard, would you trust McHale's assessment of how much Howard is worth?

[Roy H.]

If Ainge talked to McHale before deciding on whether to offer a contract to Howard, would you trust McHale's assessment of how much Howard is worth?

I'd consider McHale's assessment of Howard as a player, unless "worth" means contract value, which goes beyond McHale's expertise.

[IDreamCeltics]

The Lakers went from 45 wins in 2012-2013 with Howard to 27 wins the next year without him. 

The Lakers went from 41 wins in a 66 game season (62.1% winning percentage) without Howard to 45 wins in a 82 game season (54.9%) with him.  He didn't improve their team.

That directly contradicts your opinion that "He's made every team he played for better".  It's simply a false statement.

It is as you put it, "simply a false statement" only if you ignore that the Lakers: A. Won more games after acquiring Dwight   B.  Were 18 games worse after he left, and C.  Still haven't been able to replace his production three years later.  Other than those facts that contradict your premise I agree it's quite black and white.

Since it's, "simple" we also don't need to consider that that the Lakers went through two head coaches, three offenses, and a season ending achilles injury to Kobe Bryant that year...

Haters gonna hate, but objectively Dwight has only made teams he's played for better.

You seem to be confused about this.

I'm not confused, I'm very familiar with people cherry picking stats to suit their argument.  I just don't think a marginal difference in win percentage based on different sample sizes is the smoking gun you seem to think it is.

It's like if I pointed out that the 2012-2013 Lakers went 30-16 to end the season for a winning percentage of 66%. 

I could easily argue that sample is more indicative of the overall quality of the team than their overall win loss record because they went through a series of mid-season coaching changes from Mike Brown to Bernie Bickerstaff to Mike D'Antoni and needed time to adjust to a new philosophy.

But I really don't know why I have to since anyone who watched those teams recognizes that Dwight Howard made the Lakers better.   

I'm pretty surprised anyone would have a hard time accepting that fact considering he lead the league in rebounding while averaging 17 points a game and anchoring the defense.  The team was built for the playoffs but caught some bad luck when Kobe tore his Achilles late in the season.

[meangreenmachine]

Howard would dramatically improve our defense (a HUGE improvement in defensive rebounds and blocking, not to mention making things a whole lot more crowded in the paint). He would also have a significant impact on offense, particularly with regards to offensive rebounds and put-backs. We have shooting troubles, so getting those second shot opportunities and fixing missed opportunities with put-backs would make a difference. I think Brad Stevens can find a way to get Howard limited-but-key shooting opportunities where the probability of him being fouled AND getting the basket is high. I am fine with Howard being fouled all of the time so long as most of those fouls result in three-point opportunities. There has got to be an analytics-driven way to put Howard in that position...

Given his decline in scoring, along with injury concerns, I do not expect he will get the blockbuster long-term contract he wants unless he is willing to go to a small market, so I think he may bite on a shorter contract in a big market with a championship-caliber coach and front office.

Howard can clearly be the number two guy on a championship team. IT can clearly be that number three guy. Alas, who will be our number one guy? Simmons or Ingram? Perhaps, but one would expect that to happen at the earliest in their third or fourth year in the league, by which time it may be too late for Howard...

That said, bringing in Howard and another rebounding/defensive center (a must since we need to avoid a huge drop-off whenever Howard sits) to replace Sullinger and Zeller would almost certainly make us the top contender in the East this side of Cleveland. With luck in the injury-department and key injuries to Cleveland and the winner of the Western Conference, we could even have a shot at the championship...

Getting back to options A, B, C, ..., Z: Obviously option A would be to sign Durant since he is arguably the second or third best player in the league. However, our top need is clearly at center, so I suspect that getting a quality center is a part of option A, B, C, ... Lo and behold, Howard appears to be headed towards free agency, so he will be the second best UFA center available (the edge goes to Whiteside given his relative youth, but the dude is definitely getting a max contract, may not be worth it, and does anybody really see him leaving South Beach? Drummond is even better, but he is a RFA and it would be VERY surprising to see the Pistons pass on him).

[meangreenmachine]

The "exact type" of player the Celtics need isn't a whiny quitter with no leadership qualities who has now burned bridges with three franchises. Spending 35% of your cap on a breaking down prima donna non-star is a good way to kill a rebuild.

I'd rather have Mahimi, Ezeli, Pachulia, Horford, or even Big Al.  All should be much cheaper (even Horford won't approach $31 million), and none have the baggage.

I think I understand your perspective on this.  I just don't agree.  Different situation.  I think the Celts need to overpay and gamble on a guy who maybe has had some issues elsewhere.

Sure, you'd prefer for it to be somebody younger, or more cost-efficient.

But I think Howard has a few good playoff runs left in him, if he's in the right situation.  I believe the Celts could be that situation.  And while mentally / personality wise I'd much prefer Horford, I think Dwight might improve the Celts much more on the court.

I don't think the Celts need to worry about Dwight's leadership abilities because IT, Smart, Bradley, Crowder are already the leaders of this team.


Ultimately, I think this will probably be a non-issue because Dwight will sign with a team that has lower expectations and less media scrutiny, i.e. Charlotte, Milwaukee, Orlando, Portland.  Perhaps Atlanta.

You think Dwight will not have a problem with these guys being leaders? Have I been seeing a totally different person over the years then others have? Getting Dwight at this point seems the same as when we got Dominique back in the 90's.

My impression is that Dwight has an issue with guys who don't share the ball and think they don't need to try on defense.

This is a very salient point. I do not recall anyone bringing up any issues with Howard during his time in Orlando. It was only after his time with notorious ball-hogs-who-take-time-off-on-defense Kobe Bryant and James Harden that we heard about these issues. In the case of Kobe, clearly Howard was not in the wrong. In the case of Harden, it may also be the case that Howard is not in the wrong. Perhaps Howard just wants to play with team players who give 100% on both ends of the court, something Howard always seems to strive for...

[meangreenmachine]

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/kevin-mchale-on-dwight-howard-after-he-loses-five-minutes-later-hes-over-it-when-i-lost-i-was-miserable/

When your "superstar" teammate plays defense like this, no wonder you find a way to get over losses in five minutes (particularly after you endured time playing with a delusional-on-the-decline Kobe Bryant):

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/james-harden-worlds-laziest-defender/

[meangreenmachine]

I have never liked Dwight Howard as a person.  I think he's goofy, immature, bratty, unpredictable and volatile.  But the man has incredible talent, and he can straight up play.

Very, very well put. I would add that I sense Howard may mature in a new location without a ballhog that refuses to play defense. Goofy, immature types tend to mature a bit in their 30s, particularly after experiencing a couple of rough years where they were knocked down a peg or two...

[meangreenmachine]

Bismack Biyombo. The guy place with a ton of energy and hustle. Is only getting better and will be cheaper than DH.

Biyombo is still raw and known mostly for his blocking, but my hope is that we can land him for similar dollar figures to what we gave Amir. I would feel like we improved hugely if we add Howard, Biyombo and a lottery pick or two while only losing Sullinger and Zeller.

[Irish Stew]

Vlade Divac has apparently nixed any Cousins trade and Durant looks likely to stay put for at least one more year. Signing Howard and trading for Butler will start to look more attractive as the available talent pool shrinks. As long as we keep Crowder and Thomas out of the Butler deal, I wouldn't be upset by those two moves.

[RebusRankin]

Howard is past his prime, pass.

[crimson_stallion]

Howard is past his prime, pass.

Yeah, dude is totally done...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rck7l7peKBo