Looks like the Pel's don't have to take back much salary. If it goes down, might look something like this--
NOL gets Young, Jerebko, Bos 2016 1st
CLE gets AB, Anderson, Sully, Dal 2016 1st + the 2017 BKL swap rights
C's get Love
good lord I hope that's not it. too much.
Young (prospect), Sully (starting PF/C), AB (starting SG), Jerebko (backup SF/PF) and 3 firsts including a Brooklyn pick for 2017 for Love? too much. take the Nets swap off the table.
I can actually kinda live with that.
Boston gets Love and keeps the 2016 Nets pick...
Pelicans get the Celtics 2016 pick (which will be a mid-late first), a very raw prosepct (Young) and a 3rd tier role player (Jerebko) for Anderson
Clevleand gets Bradley, Anderson, Sully, Dallas 2016 first (mid to late 1st rounder) and the 2017 BRK pick (which I expect to go 8-12 range) for Love.
I mean I'm not the biggest fan of Love, but I think that's a pretty reasonably deal. Maybe a bit of an overpay to Cleveleand, but not dramatically so.
I don't see trades that way. I look at them as "what's the net exchange for the C's"? from that POV, this trade is a net overpayment for the C's.
I see what you're saying, and that's a valid point.
Basically talking about us giving up a prospect (Young), three rotation players (Sully, Bradley and Jerebko) and three first rounders (one with the potential to be high lottery)...and all we get back is Love.
When you think about it that way it does feel like a massive, massive overpay. I mean realistically, a deal like that is what you'd expect to give up for Westbrook, or maybe Cousins/Griffin.
Crim he's talking about getting a top 25 NBA player for Avery Bradley and an expiring Jared Sullinger, a Brooklyn pick swap and and James bloody Young.
Any scenario where we acquire Love , keep the 16' BRK pick, keep Crowder and Olynyk should be considered a fair underpayment.
There is no team that trades a top 5 player like Westbrook or even Cousins for a package like that.
You just simply under rate/hate Love so much that getting him here even for a bargain is sacrilege to you mate.
You are correct that I do not like Love, but you are very incorrect in assume that I wouldn't support a trade for love IF I thought it was a fair deal.
In fact there were already at least two proposals made earlier that I replied to, saying that they were fair deals and that I would do them.
In fact the proposal above was one of those deals - I actually said I thought it was fair until 'slamtheking' rebutted his thoughts...at which point I thought it through more carefully and agreed with him that it was a significant overpay.
1) Avery Bradley has comparable statistical production to Kevin Love this year outside of rebounding, and he is a former All-Defensive team candidate. The role he plays for this team is extremely important because our success as a team is dependent on our ability to have IT on the court, and our ability to keep IT on the court is dependent on Avery Bradley's ability to both defend the perimeter (e.g. have Thomas' back) and stretch the floor (i.e. give Thomas room to penetrate). Replace Bradley with Smart and that system is not nearly as effective - teams will sag off Smart due to his inconsistent three point shot which makes it harder for Thomas to find openings and get to the basket - where he creates most of his problems. Avery Bradley on his own is not a massively valuable asset, within the team system he is hugely critical and so his value to the team is far greater than his value as an individual.
2) Jerebko is a guy we can afford to lose- he isn't a game changer for us. But he does still have some impact on the team, so he's not completely without value to us. Losing him isn't a huge deal, but it still impacts us.
3) Sully is a restricted free agent, which means Boston has full rights to match any offer and keep him here IF Danny decides he wants to do that. That's not the same as being an unrestricted free agent, in which case the home team has no control of the situation at all. Sully offers somewhere around 80% of the talent/production that Love (at least the current version of Love) and there's every chance that Danny can get him signed for significantly less than Love. In this case Danny might consider retaining Sully rather than trading for Love, since he could do so without the risk of breaking up the core of this team and messing with chemistry. For example, if Danny could get Sully for something like $12m/year, then he could still potentially have the cap space to go after a couple of big free agents AND 2-3 quality prospects the next three years (via the Brooklyn picks) to add to that.
Danny can re-sign if nothing better comes along, he can sign-and-trade him for a guy that fits our needs more (or to move up in the draft), he can let him walk if he needs the cap space or roster space...Sully, expiring or not, gives Danny flexibility. Flexibility that he wouldn't have if he gives up a bunch of assets in return for Love's large guaranteed contract. Past history shows that Danny places a lot of value into flexibility, so don't be too shocked if Sully has more value to Danny right now than you think he does.
4) The Boston and Dallas first round picks aren't a huge deal, but they are still first round picks and those have value around the league.
5) The 2017 first round pick is a big deal, because it's almost certainly going to be lottery (top 12 most likely) and a pick in that range gives some opportunity of landing a really good player on a rookie scale contract. It's certainly not a deal breaker since it probably won't fall top 5 and probably won't get you a transcendent player, but it's quite valuable regardless.
6) James Young is irrelevant to us - he has pretty much no value to us, so I really don't care what we do with him.
Now taking all of that into account, I brake the assets we are offering into three categories:
Highly Valuable assets (assets that could significantly impact our current / future core):
Bradley
2017 Nets pick
Fairly valuable assets (assets that could have some impact on our current/future flexibility)
Sully
2016 Boston pick
2016 Dallas pick
Minimally valuable assets (assets that are of some value to us, but are disposable)
Jerebko
Invaluable assets (assets that have little or no value to us)
Young
Now, as I have said a couple of times already, if you are evaluating what Love is really worth, then you really need to start by going back to the trade that got Love to Cleveland to begin with.
In that trade Cleveland only gave up two assets - Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett. Minnesota also got Theddeus Young but that is another argument altogether since the Cavs weren's the ones who had to give him up.
So ultimately the Cavs gave up a #1 pick and a really garbage prospect (Bennett - who is about equivalent in value to Young at that point)...and Love's trade value was MUCH higher at that time since he was coming off a career year.
Now we are giving up:
* Two starting caliber core players
* Two mid-to-late firsts
* One unprotected first that is almost certain to be lottery
* Some scraps that aren't worth mentioning
That's a pretty big haul to be completely honest.
When the Knicks traded for Carmelo (easily a top 10 player at the time) they traded:
- Galinari (about on par with AB at the time)
- Wilson Chandler (on par with Sully at best)
- Timofey Mozgov (very little value at the time)
- Knicks 2014 First round pick
- Two second round picks
That is really not significantly more than what we would be sending out to Cleveland in this proposed deal for Love.
Now factor in how much Love's value has faded around the league with (his less impressive performance in Cleveland) and I think I am pretty fair in concluding that this is a quite an overpay on our part.
If you consider Love to be a top 10 or maybe top 15 player, then I would say fair enough value. If you consider Love to be a top 25 player, then I would say that's probably an overpay.
Personally I don't consider Love to be a top 25 player at all, so to me it's a significant overpay.
To be honest, I'd probably be more likely to make the deal if it was Smart (rather than Bradley) being included. Most people will hate me for saying that, but under those circumstances I might (MIGHT) consider it. But Bradley's current role is IMHO too important to our success, and I feel like trading him away for (what I consider to be) and moderate upgrade at PF would set us one step forward and two steps back...especially when you include that Brooklyn pick too.
Topic: C's , Cavs, Pelican 3 team deal in works?(Rumor) UPDATES on pg 1 (Read 43019 times)