Ainge's Offer for the 9th Pick

[Forza Juventus]

Charlotte always draft players that had a good tournament. They are stupid at drafting. But I'd need to know what those 4 picks were before I praise Ainge for trying to trade up. What if it was our 2 in this draft and like that fake Minnesotta first round pick and a philly second. That's not like some amazing offer. I guess we will wait and see if there is more info

it is posted elsewhere, but the consensus is that the offer from the celtics was very credible. this year's 16 & 28, next year's dallas first rounder, and a second rounder.

i think charlotte made a mistake.

I think Charlotte made a mistake by drafting Kaminsky but I don't think 16, 28, and the Dallas pick and s 2nd round pick is like some godfather offer for the number 9 pick

[KG Living Legend]

 According to sources, the Celtics' final offer to the Hornets was a package that could have featured as many as six draft picks, including four potential first-round selections (a combination of picks from this draft and in the future). But the Hornets could not be swayed and turned down multiple offers to select Wisconsin center Frank Kaminsky.

 Long after the draft concluded, in the early hours of Friday morning, Celtics front office staffers paced the halls of the hotel still awash in exasperation. Boston had opened wide its war chest of picks, to the point where many in the room were slightly uncomfortable with the amount the team would potentially part with, in its quest to elevate.

 I would understand if they took Winslow, But Frank! What a joke! Kudos to Danny for not doing the deal. Charlotte should have took that deal laughing. I'm so glad we didn't trade 6 picks to them. Good luck with frank the tank.

[LooseCannon]

I think people might be underestimating just how locked in on Kaminsky Charlotte actually was.

According to Woj:

Every team in pursuit of Frank Kaminsky understands: It has to leap over Charlotte at No. 9.

[Endless Paradise]

I think people might be underestimating just how locked in on Kaminsky Charlotte actually was.

According to Woj:

Every team in pursuit of Frank Kaminsky understands: It has to leap over Charlotte at No. 9.

Exactly, which is why the notion that Kaminsky would've been there at 12 is flawed. The only real shocker was Winslow at 10. There's a very real chance that Kaminsky wouldn't have dropped past 10, if not just for Miami to try to force Charlotte to trade for him (much like the Sixers did with Elfrid Payton in last year's draft).

[Endless Paradise]

That said, I don't agree at all that Charlotte made a mistake turning down that deal. I think Kaminsky at 9 was a stretch only because they already have Future Frank Kaminsky on their roster, but the fact that they picked Kaminsky reflects everything we heard about Charlotte going into the draft: they were looking for veteran help and were only interested in trading their pick if they got an established player. They didn't trade the pick and instead, drafted a veteran college player. It makes total sense.

Charlotte didn't want mid-first prospects and fringe NBA players.

[Grindfather]

In my experience, in life and not just sports, having to rely on the competition's ineptitude to benefit you is always less than ideal.

It worked out really well for Red Auerbach for a few decades, but it's a different league now.  There's much less front office incompetence out there than there was even 5-10 years ago.

I don't like the idea of waiting to prey on some other GM to make a blunder.  That's not a plan, it's arrogance.

If you are going to prey on another GM's blunders, Billy King is probably your best bet.

[Quetzalcoatl]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25225934/report-celtics-wanted-to-trade-6-picks-for-hornets-no-9-pick

First they offered four, then they offered 6.  They turned down 6 picks to grab Kaminski!  Come on

[Roy H.]

6 picks?  4 first rounders?

I'm going to guess:  #16 and #28 this year; protected Dallas pick (from the other story); protected Memphis pick (from Danny's comments about an unprotected 2019 pick).  Plus, let's say #33 and #45.

To me, if that is indeed close to what the offer was, that's a package that Charlotte was foolish to turn down. 

There options were:

1)  Take Winslow;
2)  Make the trade; draft Sam Dekker or Bobby Portis + RJ Hunter or Kevon Looney + have two future #1s; or
3) Take Frank The Tank

Of course, Charlotte went with the worst outcome.

[Scintan]

6 picks?  4 first rounders?

I'm going to guess:  #16 and #28 this year; protected Dallas pick (from the other story); protected Memphis pick (from Danny's comments about an unprotected 2019 pick).  Plus, let's say #33 and #45.

To me, if that is indeed close to what the offer was, that's a package that Charlotte was foolish to turn down. 

There options were:

1)  Take Winslow;
2)  Make the trade; draft Sam Dekker or Bobby Portis + RJ Hunter or Kevon Looney + have two future #1s; or
3) Take Frank The Tank

Of course, Charlotte went with the worst outcome.

I think you're overrating those picks, and you're dismissing the player chosen.  The first is a mistake that happens because people overrate non-lottery draft picks.  The second is an opinion which is meaningless (no offense intended) in the end because it runs counter to the opinion of Charlotte.  As Woj had pointed out, Charlotte had locked into Kaminsky some time back.

The entire world except Charlotte might think Kaminsky is a garbage pick, but that doesn't matter when the team you're trying to trade with is that same Charlotte team.

[Quetzalcoatl]

6 picks?  4 first rounders?

I'm going to guess:  #16 and #28 this year; protected Dallas pick (from the other story); protected Memphis pick (from Danny's comments about an unprotected 2019 pick).  Plus, let's say #33 and #45.

To me, if that is indeed close to what the offer was, that's a package that Charlotte was foolish to turn down. 

There options were:

1)  Take Winslow;
2)  Make the trade; draft Sam Dekker or Bobby Portis + RJ Hunter or Kevon Looney + have two future #1s; or
3) Take Frank The Tank

Of course, Charlotte went with the worst outcome.

I think you're overrating those picks, and you're dismissing the player chosen.  The first is a mistake that happens because people overrate non-lottery draft picks.  The second is an opinion which is meaningless (no offense intended) in the end because it runs counter to the opinion of Charlotte.  As Woj had pointed out, Charlotte had locked into Kaminsky some time back.

The entire world except Charlotte might think Kaminsky is a garbage pick, but that doesn't matter when the team you're trying to trade with is that same Charlotte team.

If Portis turns out better than Kaminski, are you going to even be surprised? 

[Rondohara]

Jordan lacks as much talent in team managing as he had in the court (or managing his money, in that he is good). Dude blows pick after pick and makes idiotic trades and signings, declining a good trade like this.

[Scintan]

6 picks?  4 first rounders?

I'm going to guess:  #16 and #28 this year; protected Dallas pick (from the other story); protected Memphis pick (from Danny's comments about an unprotected 2019 pick).  Plus, let's say #33 and #45.

To me, if that is indeed close to what the offer was, that's a package that Charlotte was foolish to turn down. 

There options were:

1)  Take Winslow;
2)  Make the trade; draft Sam Dekker or Bobby Portis + RJ Hunter or Kevon Looney + have two future #1s; or
3) Take Frank The Tank

Of course, Charlotte went with the worst outcome.

I think you're overrating those picks, and you're dismissing the player chosen.  The first is a mistake that happens because people overrate non-lottery draft picks.  The second is an opinion which is meaningless (no offense intended) in the end because it runs counter to the opinion of Charlotte.  As Woj had pointed out, Charlotte had locked into Kaminsky some time back.

The entire world except Charlotte might think Kaminsky is a garbage pick, but that doesn't matter when the team you're trying to trade with is that same Charlotte team.

If Portis turns out better than Kaminski, are you going to even be surprised?

No, but that's a meaningless retort.  Kaminsky could bust out of the league by August, and it won't change anything.

[PhoSita]

To play devil's advocate:

Charlotte went with quality over quantity here.

They already have a bunch of middling players.  They have a clear agenda to get better and compete this year.  They needed a key contributor to bolster Kemba and Big Al, not extra depth.  They have plenty of young guys to develop already.

Instead of adding a handful of scratch tickets, they went with a top 10 pick in a draft with good talent in that range but only mediocre options outside of the top 10-12 picks.  They selected probably the most NBA-ready player in the draft.  The Dallas pick next year, and probably the Brooklyn picks too, are likely to end up in the 13-20 range. 

It's far from certain they would have gotten equivalent value out of a handful of picks to what they got out of that one top 10 pick.

Wouldn't we be happier to have Winslow in hand today as opposed to a handful of potential rotation players?

[Scintan]

To play devil's advocate:

Charlotte went with quality over quantity here.

They already have a bunch of middling players.  They have a clear agenda to get better and compete this year.  They needed a key contributor to bolster Kemba and Big Al, not extra depth.  They have plenty of young guys to develop already.

Instead of adding a handful of scratch tickets, they went with a top 10 pick in a draft with good talent in that range but only mediocre options outside of the top 10-12 picks.  They selected probably the most NBA-ready player in the draft.  The Dallas pick next year, and probably the Brooklyn picks too, are likely to end up in the 13-20 range. 

It's far from certain they would have gotten equivalent value out of a handful of picks to what they got out of that one top 10 pick.

Wouldn't we be happier to have Winslow in hand today as opposed to a handful of potential rotation players?

This is it, pretty much exactly.  If people don't like Kaminsky, just sub Winslow into the spot.

Winslow, or #16, #28, a mid-first round pick in 2016 and a first round pick in 2018.  If that trade had gone down, can most people here honestly claim that they'd be saying something like

"Ainge got screwed and gave away way too much!  He was foolish to make that trade!"?

[Forza Juventus]

A bunch of middle-late first round picks is not worth the 9th pick. Charlotte screwed up as usual by picking Kaminsky but the 9th pick (in this case it would be Winslow) is way better than middle to late picks. It's not like we made some godfather offer