Stein:whispers getting louder c's could trade smart to move up to high lottery

[PhoSita]

We have the worst fans in the league. I'm disgusted to call some of you my fellow fans.

I think you're seriously overestimating the fandom of other teams.

Heck, the fact that people care enough to create and post on a forum like this is evidence enough that the Celts have a much, much more engaged fanbase than three quarters of the other teams, at least.

[tarheelsxxiii]

We have the worst fans in the league. I'm disgusted to call some of you my fellow fans.

Why does objectivity mean we are poor fans? Smart is my favorite player on the team... and I hated Ainge for dangling our guys every year. But it seems the only plausible way for us to land a cornerstone piece is through the draft, trade, or a combination of the two. We finally have a good asset to jumpstart the process, so wouldn't it be a mistake to not?

[Monkhouse]

I like Smart, and I love his fire. But Smart isn't the difference maker in my opinion... I actually think if Young got it together, that he has a far higher ceiling.

I would love to see what Smart, and Young could be like as a back court.

I think its fair to say that people see Smart as the Dennis Johnson of a winning team. Of course you would trade him for a bonafied superstar, but will that be there at pick #3? Okafor is a risky trade due to his defense or lack there of. We have been screaming all year for a rim protector to help our exciting backcourt. We have won with these guys.

True, but I would still trade everyone on the roster for any budding young superstar.

[MBunge]

Boston desperately need a franchise prospect ... That's not smart. I like smart though

So we should just hurriedly deal guys who aren't going to be franchise guys but could very well make an All-Star team for a guy that might have the potential to be a franchise guy?

Edit: ... but probably won't ever be, like Smart?

I had smart 8th on my board last year and he ended up worse than I thought he'd be. I like him a lot, but I give him up if we can get a franchise prospect.

You're the only one in the world who thinks any of that. And tell me this, if you had him 8th on your board (ha!) and he ended up 6th in All-Rookie voting, how in the hell did he end worse than you thought he'd be? Ridiculousness.

Heh... If you wouldn't trade smart for embiid or Jabari Parker right now, you're cray.  So spare me his "6th in rookie voting" thing.  I had him 8th on my board.  I sAw him as an NBA ready guy who would average 15, 5 and 5 out of the gate, be a top 4 rookie, but long term others would surpass him.  I was disappointed with his rookie campaign.  Great defensive player though.  I'd move him for someone with star potential.

You're so wrong, it's funny. Yes, he finished 6th in voting. Yes, Embiid and Parker were injured. However, Mirotic and Noel, two players that were not part of the 2014 draft, finished ahead of him!

TP. I've given up. He's never really given me a legit answer.

It's all good Larry Legend. You can like some Celtics now and again.

I like Smart.  I hope we keep him.  I think it's safe to say he'll develop into a Tony Allen type at worse.  Maybe he'll be better.  But if you're asking me if I'd move Tony Allen for the next Steph Curry or LaMarcus Aldridge, my answer is a resounding yes.

And what if you picked up the next Jonny Flynn or Tyrus Thomas?

Not all that keen on moving Smart for a guy his age unless we were to package him with a James Young or Kelly Olynyk for a stud like Jabari.

Look, I get that people here disagree with me, because Smart's our boy. 

They don't disagree with you because Smart's "our boy."  It's because your disappointment in him is incoherent and irrational.

You throw out 15,5 and 5 for Smart like anybody should be able to do that as a rookie EVEN AFTER IT IS POINTED OUT TO YOU HOW DUMB THAT IS.

And you enthusiastically post about the virtues of Anthony Bennett to a degree I'm not sure I've ever seen to talk about anyone on this current team, even though most of them are demonstrably a whole lot better than Bennett.

Mike

[SCeltic34]

We have the worst fans in the league. I'm disgusted to call some of you my fellow fans.

Please come closer so I can kiss your feet.

But in seriousness, unreasonable fans are prevalent among the fanbase of any sports franchise.  Don't let the outspoken few miscolor your perception of a fanbase as a whole.  They're certainly not exclusive to the Celtics, like your post seems to suggest.

[aingeforthree]

I'm not seeing why this is surprising. I said in another thread that Smart is our only true asset. No one is coveting our other "assets," with the exception of picks that are necessary sweeteners with Smart.

Understand even less peoples' dismay with trading Smart, especially for the potential at Okafor. Smart has given us a good indication of who he will become. He will flirt with all NBA-teams his career, and he lacks offensive abilities at this level. He passes well, may be a better shooter than we thought, but will never shoot it well and can't get to the rack like he did in college.

I like Smart a lot. The thought of the trade makes my stomach drop. But Okafor's skill set is as sure as any in this draft - he's Tim Duncan super lite without defense. Bigger picture, he may give us a legitimate opportunity to continue chasing Boogie, and worse case we have a very solid scoring C. People will argue he doesn't fit into Stevens' "system," and I'll ask if that "system" was him employing a common scheme at this level that fit the personnel he was given.

Regardless, I doubt this happens. LAL seems to covet Russell, and they aren't nearly as desperate as we are to chase Boogie. They won't strike out in FA, and FA doesn't exist in Boston.

Only true asset ?  That's discrediting a lot of talent on the current roster, especially guys like IT4 and James Young.  BTW, had Young stayed in school, he's right up there with the Winslow's of the world in this draft.

How do you know who covets who ?

[BlackCeltic]

I like Smart, and I love his fire. But Smart isn't the difference maker in my opinion... I actually think if Young got it together, that he has a far higher ceiling.

I would love to see what Smart, and Young could be like as a back court.

I think its fair to say that people see Smart as the Dennis Johnson of a winning team. Of course you would trade him for a bonafied superstar, but will that be there at pick #3? Okafor is a risky trade due to his defense or lack there of. We have been screaming all year for a rim protector to help our exciting backcourt. We have won with these guys.

True, but I would still trade everyone on the roster for any budding young superstar.

I would too, but who is a budding young superstar outside of Cousins, Russell, or Towns?

[SHAQATTACK]

If they trade smart for pick 11,  Danny should get canned.

I m the worlds worse talent picker ....I picked White and Mello both ..... . ...ugh

Not even I could make that deal though .......lol


Smart is worth a BIG Haul .....he is better than his #6 we took him.   ......

I'd want One of the best two centers in this draft. .

Very few guards with his size have the IQ and motor ....DESIRE  to Win

[D.o.s.]

We have the worst fans in the league. I'm disgusted to call some of you my fellow fans.

Please come closer so I can kiss your feet.

But in seriousness, unreasonable fans are prevalent among the fanbase of any sports franchise.  Don't let the outspoken few miscolor your perception of a fanbase as a whole.  They're certainly not exclusive to the Celtics, like your post seems to suggest.

I think he might be talking about our willingness to trade Smart away.

I'm not seeing why this is surprising. I said in another thread that Smart is our only true asset. No one is coveting our other "assets," with the exception of picks that are necessary sweeteners with Smart.

Understand even less peoples' dismay with trading Smart, especially for the potential at Okafor. Smart has given us a good indication of who he will become. He will flirt with all NBA-teams his career, and he lacks offensive abilities at this level. He passes well, may be a better shooter than we thought, but will never shoot it well and can't get to the rack like he did in college.

I like Smart a lot. The thought of the trade makes my stomach drop. But Okafor's skill set is as sure as any in this draft - he's Tim Duncan super lite without defense. Bigger picture, he may give us a legitimate opportunity to continue chasing Boogie, and worse case we have a very solid scoring C. People will argue he doesn't fit into Stevens' "system," and I'll ask if that "system" was him employing a common scheme at this level that fit the personnel he was given.

Regardless, I doubt this happens. LAL seems to covet Russell, and they aren't nearly as desperate as we are to chase Boogie. They won't strike out in FA, and FA doesn't exist in Boston.

Only true asset ?  That's discrediting a lot of talent on the current roster, especially guys like IT4 and James Young.  BTW, had Young stayed in school, he's right up there with the Winslow's of the world in this draft.

How do you know who covets who ?

It's not terribly difficult to discern the relative value of players around the league using some deductive reasoning.

[PhoSita]

I, for one, was disappointed.   

I have to say, I'm with LarBrd on this one, at least enough to agree that Smart disappointed me in many respects.

The draft reports on Smart that I read compared him to Harden, and Tyreke, and other guys with great size, handles, and feel for the game despite less than ideal athleticism, guys who could score fluidly the minute they entered the league.

Smart's offensive game was really nothing like it was advertised to be, other than the fact that he had a happy trigger finger from outside.  Turns out that he was not nearly as poor an outside shooter as advertised, but he also had very little offensive game to speak of inside the arc, and rarely got to the free throw line.


I enjoyed watching Smart this year, and I think his intangibles and defensive ability are really nice assets to have on the floor with pretty much any kind of lineup.  But his lack of obvious talent offensively makes him a let down considering we used the #6 pick on him.

The only thing that makes me feel better about it is that there were not any obviously superior prospects taken after him.  Nobody who blew up this year, or flashed great potential, to make me feel bad about the selection.  This isn't a Kelly Olynyk -- Giannis situation.

[Timdawgg]

Boston desperately need a franchise prospect ... That's not smart. I like smart though

So we should just hurriedly deal guys who aren't going to be franchise guys but could very well make an All-Star team for a guy that might have the potential to be a franchise guy?

Edit: ... but probably won't ever be, like Smart?

I had smart 8th on my board last year and he ended up worse than I thought he'd be. I like him a lot, but I give him up if we can get a franchise prospect.

You're the only one in the world who thinks any of that. And tell me this, if you had him 8th on your board (ha!) and he ended up 6th in All-Rookie voting, how in the hell did he end worse than you thought he'd be? Ridiculousness.

Heh... If you wouldn't trade smart for embiid or Jabari Parker right now, you're cray.  So spare me his "6th in rookie voting" thing.  I had him 8th on my board.  I sAw him as an NBA ready guy who would average 15, 5 and 5 out of the gate, be a top 4 rookie, but long term others would surpass him.  I was disappointed with his rookie campaign.  Great defensive player though.  I'd move him for someone with star potential.

You're so wrong, it's funny. Yes, he finished 6th in voting. Yes, Embiid and Parker were injured. However, Mirotic and Noel, two players that were not part of the 2014 draft, finished ahead of him!

TP. I've given up. He's never really given me a legit answer.

It's all good Larry Legend. You can like some Celtics now and again.

I like Smart.  I hope we keep him.  I think it's safe to say he'll develop into a Tony Allen type at worse.  Maybe he'll be better.  But if you're asking me if I'd move Tony Allen for the next Steph Curry or LaMarcus Aldridge, my answer is a resounding yes.

And what if you picked up the next Jonny Flynn or Tyrus Thomas?

Not all that keen on moving Smart for a guy his age unless we were to package him with a James Young or Kelly Olynyk for a stud like Jabari.

Look, I get that people here disagree with me, because Smart's our boy. 

They don't disagree with you because Smart's "our boy."  It's because your disappointment in him is incoherent and irrational.

You throw out 15,5 and 5 for Smart like anybody should be able to do that as a rookie EVEN AFTER IT IS POINTED OUT TO YOU HOW DUMB THAT IS.

And you enthusiastically post about the virtues of Anthony Bennett to a degree I'm not sure I've ever seen to talk about anyone on this current team, even though most of them are demonstrably a whole lot better than Bennett.

Mike

This exactly....those are crazy expectations knowing you had Rondo playing the same position going into the season.

[aingeforthree]

We have the worst fans in the league. I'm disgusted to call some of you my fellow fans.

Please come closer so I can kiss your feet.

But in seriousness, unreasonable fans are prevalent among the fanbase of any sports franchise.  Don't let the outspoken few miscolor your perception of a fanbase as a whole.  They're certainly not exclusive to the Celtics, like your post seems to suggest.

I think he might be talking about our willingness to trade Smart away.

I'm not seeing why this is surprising. I said in another thread that Smart is our only true asset. No one is coveting our other "assets," with the exception of picks that are necessary sweeteners with Smart.

Understand even less peoples' dismay with trading Smart, especially for the potential at Okafor. Smart has given us a good indication of who he will become. He will flirt with all NBA-teams his career, and he lacks offensive abilities at this level. He passes well, may be a better shooter than we thought, but will never shoot it well and can't get to the rack like he did in college.

I like Smart a lot. The thought of the trade makes my stomach drop. But Okafor's skill set is as sure as any in this draft - he's Tim Duncan super lite without defense. Bigger picture, he may give us a legitimate opportunity to continue chasing Boogie, and worse case we have a very solid scoring C. People will argue he doesn't fit into Stevens' "system," and I'll ask if that "system" was him employing a common scheme at this level that fit the personnel he was given.

Regardless, I doubt this happens. LAL seems to covet Russell, and they aren't nearly as desperate as we are to chase Boogie. They won't strike out in FA, and FA doesn't exist in Boston.

Only true asset ?  That's discrediting a lot of talent on the current roster, especially guys like IT4 and James Young.  BTW, had Young stayed in school, he's right up there with the Winslow's of the world in this draft.

How do you know who covets who ?

It's not terribly difficult to discern the relative value of players around the league using some deductive reasoning.

Is that the same reasoning you used when you debunked the Garnett to the Celtics rumors back in the day ?

"No way, the Celtics don't have enough to land Garnett.  No real assets to get there"

[konkmv]

I like smart... trade him only for towns or okafor

[D.o.s.]

We have the worst fans in the league. I'm disgusted to call some of you my fellow fans.

Please come closer so I can kiss your feet.

But in seriousness, unreasonable fans are prevalent among the fanbase of any sports franchise.  Don't let the outspoken few miscolor your perception of a fanbase as a whole.  They're certainly not exclusive to the Celtics, like your post seems to suggest.

I think he might be talking about our willingness to trade Smart away.

I'm not seeing why this is surprising. I said in another thread that Smart is our only true asset. No one is coveting our other "assets," with the exception of picks that are necessary sweeteners with Smart.

Understand even less peoples' dismay with trading Smart, especially for the potential at Okafor. Smart has given us a good indication of who he will become. He will flirt with all NBA-teams his career, and he lacks offensive abilities at this level. He passes well, may be a better shooter than we thought, but will never shoot it well and can't get to the rack like he did in college.

I like Smart a lot. The thought of the trade makes my stomach drop. But Okafor's skill set is as sure as any in this draft - he's Tim Duncan super lite without defense. Bigger picture, he may give us a legitimate opportunity to continue chasing Boogie, and worse case we have a very solid scoring C. People will argue he doesn't fit into Stevens' "system," and I'll ask if that "system" was him employing a common scheme at this level that fit the personnel he was given.

Regardless, I doubt this happens. LAL seems to covet Russell, and they aren't nearly as desperate as we are to chase Boogie. They won't strike out in FA, and FA doesn't exist in Boston.

Only true asset ?  That's discrediting a lot of talent on the current roster, especially guys like IT4 and James Young.  BTW, had Young stayed in school, he's right up there with the Winslow's of the world in this draft.

How do you know who covets who ?

It's not terribly difficult to discern the relative value of players around the league using some deductive reasoning.

Is that the same reasoning you used when you debunked the Garnett to the Celtics rumors back in the day ?

"No way, the Celtics don't have enough to land Garnett.  No real assets to get there"

No, because I didn't debunk any of those rumors, nor am I debunking any rumors here. In fact I actively discourage people from debunking rumors off of knee-jerk reactions. I am much more in favor of taking everything with a grain of salt, as I think my posting history would suggest.

Your post is revisionist history, by the way -- Al Jefferson was definitely considered a "real asset" in 2007, particularly since draft picks were not nearly as valued as they are today. Something which is easily understood, and lends credence to my initial point.

QED. Nice stab at using a straw man, by the way, it's always good to see people trying to expound their intellectual faculties.

[MBunge]

Boston desperately need a franchise prospect ... That's not smart. I like smart though

So we should just hurriedly deal guys who aren't going to be franchise guys but could very well make an All-Star team for a guy that might have the potential to be a franchise guy?

Edit: ... but probably won't ever be, like Smart?

I had smart 8th on my board last year and he ended up worse than I thought he'd be. I like him a lot, but I give him up if we can get a franchise prospect.

You're the only one in the world who thinks any of that. And tell me this, if you had him 8th on your board (ha!) and he ended up 6th in All-Rookie voting, how in the hell did he end worse than you thought he'd be? Ridiculousness.

Heh... If you wouldn't trade smart for embiid or Jabari Parker right now, you're cray.  So spare me his "6th in rookie voting" thing.  I had him 8th on my board.  I sAw him as an NBA ready guy who would average 15, 5 and 5 out of the gate, be a top 4 rookie, but long term others would surpass him.  I was disappointed with his rookie campaign.  Great defensive player though.  I'd move him for someone with star potential.

You're so wrong, it's funny. Yes, he finished 6th in voting. Yes, Embiid and Parker were injured. However, Mirotic and Noel, two players that were not part of the 2014 draft, finished ahead of him!

TP. I've given up. He's never really given me a legit answer.

It's all good Larry Legend. You can like some Celtics now and again.

I like Smart.  I hope we keep him.  I think it's safe to say he'll develop into a Tony Allen type at worse.  Maybe he'll be better.  But if you're asking me if I'd move Tony Allen for the next Steph Curry or LaMarcus Aldridge, my answer is a resounding yes.

And what if you picked up the next Jonny Flynn or Tyrus Thomas?

Not all that keen on moving Smart for a guy his age unless we were to package him with a James Young or Kelly Olynyk for a stud like Jabari.

Look, I get that people here disagree with me, because Smart's our boy.  But he averaged 7 points on 36% shooting and all the pre-draft hype was that the kid was one of the 3 most "NBA ready prospects" in the draft.   All the stat projections I read about Smart suggested he'd be able to average at least 15 points on a depleated roster like Boston.   He lacks explosiveness and speed.  He's not a good shooter.  He's not great with the ball.  He's not much of a distributor.   For a guy who most expected to be a NBA-ready leader, he proved to be an excepitonal defender, a mediocre 3-point shooter... and not much else.   Who knows what he'll develop into, but it's not very encouraging.  And with Thomas on board, it might make sense to move Smart if you're getting a better prospect... preferably a shooting guard with size who can shoot (I'd trade Smart for Russell) or, obviously... an elite big man prospect.

There were guys in the draft last year that were far more raw, but with potentially a higher ceiling (Gordon, Exum, Vonleh).   All I've read about the Celtics was that they tried very hard to trade up to get Embiid... And that Smart vs Randle was a debate they agonized over.  They saw Randle as having more skill.  They liked Smart's attitude in spite of his lack of skill.  They took Smart, because they thought he'd put in a lot of work and because he's a tough guy.   He could get a lot better over time.  But to say I wasn't disappointed in his lack of ability as a supposedly "NBA-Ready" player would be lying.   He was exceptional on one end of the court and the other end was concerning. 

Where the heck are you getting those projections from. O.o

15 points a game? Depleted (we were always deep at the guard rotations)

His NBA readiness had all to do with defense, nothing to do with offense... which he delivered on.

So, I think you might just have had a tad bit of the unrealistic expectations dosage.

I love that people around here like to pretend like I pull my "LarBrdisms" out of my butt.  Like I just fabricate it for drama.   If only I had a time machine, I could point out the people around here who thought Smart was going to be an impact offensive player immediately.

Luckily, Google is helpful in these situations.   Google "Marcus Smart statistic projections", and you'll see several people who said that if Smart got the minutes (which he did after Rondo was traded), he had the capacity to be "the man" from day 1. 

One such article:  http://www.rotowire.com/blog/marcus-smart-2014-rookie-projection/

Not surprisingly, it brings up the Tyreke Evans thing I thought.

Evans and Smart are similar in size, build, and athleticism. Their statistical production in college was also very similar. According to Hickory High Similarity Scores, Evans was the second most similar player to Smart in their database.

It suggests Smart's best-case scenario would him averaging similar stats to Evans in year 1:  20.1 points, 5.8 assists, 5.3 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 46%/26%/75%

Worst-case scenario, it brings up Dion Waiters.  Waiters averaged 15 points, 3 assists, 2.4 rebounds and 1 steal on 41%/31%/75% shooting

This isn't a "LarBrdism"... 

It is a LarBrdism because Tyreke averaged 37 minutes a game for a Kings team that won 25 games and Waiters put up his numbers on a Cavs team that won 24 games.

Going deeper, Waiters as a rookie put up a PER of 13.7, an offensive rating of 99 pts per 100 possession and a defensive rating of 111 pts per 100 possessions.  Tyreke Evans as a rookie put up a PER of 18.2, an offensive rating of 107 pts per 100 possessions and a defensive rating of 110 pts per 100 possessions.

Marcus Smart as a rookie put up a PER of 11 with an offensive rating of 101 points per 100 possessions and a defensive rating of 104 pts per 100 possessions.  Certainly nothing to set the world on fire but a lot more comparable to Evans and Waiters than you're making out.

And I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.  You just choose to ignore it.

Mike