Knicks work out Mid 1st rd prospects, could C's be selecting for them?

[cb8883]

Markets like Detroit Boston Minnesota Philly can't compete in free agency with the big boys. This is why the Lakers are regarded as the crown jewel franchise by people in pop culture because weather and the allure of tinsletown is much greater than a 1 title difference. I hate that franchise with a passion but it's correct. They'll always be able to sign better talent. Just like the Knicks will or the Texas teams or even Brooklyn whenever they get out of cap hell, most likely in 2017.  Danny truth be told has done an okay job drafting despite drafting Banks 2.0 who looks to be a bust as a lottery pick but a good back end of the rotation guy in his prime. The drawing power hierarchy is the following.

-Money including endorsements
-Location
-Winning
-Nightlife
-Future Projection
-Other stuff like family friendly situation etc...

Boston has Money and Future Projection and the extra stuff but that doesn't outweigh the money + endorsements offered by MY or LA. Or the nightlife offered by Texas or Miami. We are a second class citizen in the NBA embrace it and focus on a hometown team through the draft. Please stop creating threads about top free agents coming here it's pretty embarrassing

[Irish Stew]

Being able to sign 2 Max players by clearing salary would be Danny's main motive--and he also would be able to draft a top talent---it would be brilliant....If we could add LMA and K.Love + one of Russell/Winslow/WCS....Who cares about giving up Sullinger and Bradley--?

Yes, we could have a roster of

PG: Smart                       / IT
SG: Winslow                   /Young
SF: Crowder                   / Turner
PF: Aldridge or Love       / KO
 C: Monroe                     / Zeller

That is easily a 50+ win team/ top 3 in east , with plenty of room to grow. We would still have all our picks and Brooklyn's picks coming in the next 3 years, and with cap rising could sign another max in 2016 with cap room to spare

  I don't think that I could come up with a worse defensive tandem at the 4-5 than Monroe and Love. Aldridge and Monroe is not great but I could live with it. It might be better to pair either Love or Aldridge with one of WCS/Asik/Koufos/Biyombo/Jordan.

[mef730]

If we get #4... and Okafor or Russell drop... I will eat my leg off and post tumblr pictures for proof. And I do not own or know what a tumblr account is. But I'd eat it, real good.

TP for making me laugh on a Monday morning. I had the exact same conversation yesterday. I mean, not about eating my (or your, for that matter) leg, but about having no idea what a tumblr is.

Mike

[GC003332]

Markets like Detroit Boston Minnesota Philly can't compete in free agency with the big boys. This is why the Lakers are regarded as the crown jewel franchise by people in pop culture because weather and the allure of tinsletown is much greater than a 1 title difference. I hate that franchise with a passion but it's correct. They'll always be able to sign better talent. Just like the Knicks will or the Texas teams or even Brooklyn whenever they get out of cap hell, most likely in 2017.  Danny truth be told has done an okay job drafting despite drafting Banks 2.0 who looks to be a bust as a lottery pick but a good back end of the rotation guy in his prime. The drawing power hierarchy is the following.

-Money including endorsements
-Location
-Winning
-Nightlife
-Future Projection
-Other stuff like family friendly situation etc...

Boston has Money and Future Projection and the extra stuff but that doesn't outweigh the money + endorsements offered by MY or LA. Or the nightlife offered by Texas or Miami. We are a second class citizen in the NBA embrace it and focus on a hometown team through the draft. Please stop creating threads about top free agents coming here it's pretty embarrassing

Well Pau Gasol turned down more money and a better location to leave LA last year so there goes that theory.
Where is current roster makeup, Management stability and Coaching?
If a player doesn't want to sign with Celtics due to nightlife who really wants them anyway

If the Celtics managed to snag a big time free agent or two the whole tanking train of thought would become irrelevant wouldn't it.

[Evantime34]

Markets like Detroit Boston Minnesota Philly can't compete in free agency with the big boys. This is why the Lakers are regarded as the crown jewel franchise by people in pop culture because weather and the allure of tinsletown is much greater than a 1 title difference. I hate that franchise with a passion but it's correct. They'll always be able to sign better talent. Just like the Knicks will or the Texas teams or even Brooklyn whenever they get out of cap hell, most likely in 2017.  Danny truth be told has done an okay job drafting despite drafting Banks 2.0 who looks to be a bust as a lottery pick but a good back end of the rotation guy in his prime. The drawing power hierarchy is the following.

-Money including endorsements
-Location
-Winning
-Nightlife
-Future Projection
-Other stuff like family friendly situation etc...

Boston has Money and Future Projection and the extra stuff but that doesn't outweigh the money + endorsements offered by MY or LA. Or the nightlife offered by Texas or Miami. We are a second class citizen in the NBA embrace it and focus on a hometown team through the draft. Please stop creating threads about top free agents coming here it's pretty embarrassing

Are those in order? If so I disagree. I would order it like
-Money including endorsements
-Fit (ability to meet potential)
-Winning
- Everything else

Although this is my general opinion, since every player has a different hierarchy.

[sawick48]

can someone name the best FA we've ever signed in the lottery era?  a 36 year old Dominique Wilkins that not even the Hawks wanted anymore? The answer is probably the All Star Dana Barros who couldn't even beat out David Wesley for playing time, and if that's a guy you want to cite as your argument for us being able to sign guys, then I think you just proved my argument. it's not a "myth" that we don't sign FAs, it's more a "fact."  Sure we've made use of our exceptions when we already had a title contender that veterans looking for a ring were happy to join, but impact FAs, no.  and, unfortunately, this offseason will be no different.  and as far as what my point is, it's to look other places for help.  free agency may hold 1 or 2 role players for us just because we have some cap space, but again, expect us to probably overpay them to spend their winters in the northeast. 

There's so many armchair GMs on these boards that just fill holes by throwing the premiere FAs of the day into our lineup as if it's such an easy fix, and then some even act bewildered as to why we never actually get those guys.  I realize it's petty on my end but, like i said in my first post, i got tired of reading it without feeling like i needed to respond.  the only people that care about team history and tradition are the front office, the fans, and players that are already under contract.  sad, but true.

[DarkAzcura]

can someone name the best FA we've ever signed in the lottery era?  a 36 year old Dominique Wilkins that not even the Hawks wanted anymore? The answer is probably the All Star Dana Barros who couldn't even beat out David Wesley for playing time, and if that's a guy you want to cite as your argument for us being able to sign guys, then I think you just proved my argument. it's not a "myth" that we don't sign FAs, it's more a "fact."  Sure we've made use of our exceptions when we already had a title contender that veterans looking for a ring were happy to join, but impact FAs, no.  and, unfortunately, this offseason will be no different.  and as far as what my point is, it's to look other places for help.  free agency may hold 1 or 2 role players for us just because we have some cap space, but again, expect us to probably overpay them to spend their winters in the northeast. 

There's so many armchair GMs on these boards that just fill holes by throwing the premiere FAs of the day into our lineup as if it's such an easy fix, and then some even act bewildered as to why we never actually get those guys.  I realize it's petty on my end but, like i said in my first post, i got tired of reading it without feeling like i needed to respond.  the only people that care about team history and tradition are the front office, the fans, and players that are already under contract.  sad, but true.

Can you name me the last time the Celtics had cap space to spend in the last 25 years to go along with an appealing front office, coaching staff, and growing young team? I'm going to say that hasn't happened once in the modern era for the Celtics. You are armchair GMing just as badly. The whole "when have the Celtics ever signed a big FA" argument is such an odd one. It's ignoring so many factors that held the Celtics back from pursuing big free agents.

During the recent Big 3 era, the Celtics essentially had their pick of the litter of mid level free agents. Shaq, Posey, Rasheed, Jermaine, Cassell (after release), rumors of Reggie Miller coming back, etc. The Celtics were commonly attracting and pulling in the top free agents that they were actually capable of signing. All of these guys could have went to the Lakers or some other contender, but the Celtics were right there snatching them away from everyone.

The 90s were a complete dead zone for the Celtics. Management was a joke. Coaching was a joke and a turnstile. There was no culture. No atmosphere. There was no appeal in playing for the Celtics back then after the original Big 3 left because there was no direction or continuity at all. Wyc and Ainge have done a good job attempting to rebuild the aura of the Celtics. The coaching staff is also very stable unlike the 90s.

[sawick48]

can someone name the best FA we've ever signed in the lottery era?  a 36 year old Dominique Wilkins that not even the Hawks wanted anymore? The answer is probably the All Star Dana Barros who couldn't even beat out David Wesley for playing time, and if that's a guy you want to cite as your argument for us being able to sign guys, then I think you just proved my argument. it's not a "myth" that we don't sign FAs, it's more a "fact."  Sure we've made use of our exceptions when we already had a title contender that veterans looking for a ring were happy to join, but impact FAs, no.  and, unfortunately, this offseason will be no different.  and as far as what my point is, it's to look other places for help.  free agency may hold 1 or 2 role players for us just because we have some cap space, but again, expect us to probably overpay them to spend their winters in the northeast. 

There's so many armchair GMs on these boards that just fill holes by throwing the premiere FAs of the day into our lineup as if it's such an easy fix, and then some even act bewildered as to why we never actually get those guys.  I realize it's petty on my end but, like i said in my first post, i got tired of reading it without feeling like i needed to respond.  the only people that care about team history and tradition are the front office, the fans, and players that are already under contract.  sad, but true.

Can you name me the last time the Celtics had cap space to spend in the last 25 years to go along with an appealing front office, coaching staff, and growing young team? I'm going to say that hasn't happened once in the modern era for the Celtics. You are armchair GMing just as badly. The whole "when have the Celtics ever signed a big FA" argument is such an odd one. It's ignoring so many factors that held the Celtics back from pursuing big free agents.

During the recent Big 3 era, the Celtics essentially had their pick of the litter of mid level free agents. Shaq, Posey, Rasheed, Jermaine, Cassell (after release), rumors of Reggie Miller coming back, etc. The Celtics were commonly attracting and pulling in the top free agents that they were actually capable of signing. All of these guys could have went to the Lakers or some other contender, but the Celtics were right there snatching them away from everyone.

The 90s were a complete dead zone for the Celtics. Management was a joke. Coaching was a joke and a turnstile. There was no culture. No atmosphere. There was no appeal in playing for the Celtics back then after the original Big 3 left because there was no direction or continuity at all. Wyc and Ainge have done a good job attempting to rebuild the aura of the Celtics. The coaching staff is also very stable unlike the 90s.

If your argument is that we'll see then sure, I guess we will.  But I'm telling you that professional ballers, in their prime, at the tops of their classes, want to go to established teams or teams that aren't all that far away from contending, and the tie breaker of those scenarios goes to the teams with the better weather and more appealing night life. A rebuilding team, no matter the coach, atmosphere, tradition, whatever other intangible you want to throw out there, is NOT appealing to a superstar, and that goes double for when that team resides in a city such as Boston.

Again, no use going back and forth because to an extent you are right, we will see soon enough, my 2 cents is just that i would be SHOCKED if we landed a big time FA (much less 2) such as Love, Aldridge, DeAndre, Gasol, etc rather than settling and overpaying for a couple middle tier ones.

[DarkAzcura]

can someone name the best FA we've ever signed in the lottery era?  a 36 year old Dominique Wilkins that not even the Hawks wanted anymore? The answer is probably the All Star Dana Barros who couldn't even beat out David Wesley for playing time, and if that's a guy you want to cite as your argument for us being able to sign guys, then I think you just proved my argument. it's not a "myth" that we don't sign FAs, it's more a "fact."  Sure we've made use of our exceptions when we already had a title contender that veterans looking for a ring were happy to join, but impact FAs, no.  and, unfortunately, this offseason will be no different.  and as far as what my point is, it's to look other places for help.  free agency may hold 1 or 2 role players for us just because we have some cap space, but again, expect us to probably overpay them to spend their winters in the northeast. 

There's so many armchair GMs on these boards that just fill holes by throwing the premiere FAs of the day into our lineup as if it's such an easy fix, and then some even act bewildered as to why we never actually get those guys.  I realize it's petty on my end but, like i said in my first post, i got tired of reading it without feeling like i needed to respond.  the only people that care about team history and tradition are the front office, the fans, and players that are already under contract.  sad, but true.

Can you name me the last time the Celtics had cap space to spend in the last 25 years to go along with an appealing front office, coaching staff, and growing young team? I'm going to say that hasn't happened once in the modern era for the Celtics. You are armchair GMing just as badly. The whole "when have the Celtics ever signed a big FA" argument is such an odd one. It's ignoring so many factors that held the Celtics back from pursuing big free agents.

During the recent Big 3 era, the Celtics essentially had their pick of the litter of mid level free agents. Shaq, Posey, Rasheed, Jermaine, Cassell (after release), rumors of Reggie Miller coming back, etc. The Celtics were commonly attracting and pulling in the top free agents that they were actually capable of signing. All of these guys could have went to the Lakers or some other contender, but the Celtics were right there snatching them away from everyone.

The 90s were a complete dead zone for the Celtics. Management was a joke. Coaching was a joke and a turnstile. There was no culture. No atmosphere. There was no appeal in playing for the Celtics back then after the original Big 3 left because there was no direction or continuity at all. Wyc and Ainge have done a good job attempting to rebuild the aura of the Celtics. The coaching staff is also very stable unlike the 90s.

If your argument is that we'll see then sure, I guess we will.  But I'm telling you that professional ballers, in their prime, at the tops of their classes, want to go to established teams or teams that aren't all that far away from contending, and the tie breaker of those scenarios goes to the teams with the better weather and more appealing night life. A rebuilding team, no matter the coach, atmosphere, tradition, whatever other intangible you want to throw out there, is NOT appealing to a superstar, and that goes double for when that team resides in a city such as Boston.

Again, no use going back and forth because to an extent you are right, we will see soon enough, my 2 cents is just that i would be SHOCKED if we landed a big time FA (much less 2) such as Love, Aldridge, DeAndre, Gasol, etc rather than settling and overpaying for a couple middle tier ones.

We will see, indeeeed. I won't pretend to know what will happen, but I think free agents will hear the Celtics' pitch out, which is something I probably couldn't have said a decade or more ago.

[fairweatherfan]

can someone name the best FA we've ever signed in the lottery era? 

Kevin Garnett.  We signed all of the Big 3 to contracts when they were UFAs.  Free agents that played here are still free agents after all.

[JHTruth]

I think that trading away Bradley or Sully for a draft pick would be a huge mistake for this team and possibly a momentum killer for the progress they made this season. I'm not completely devoted to either player being in our future but the reality is that they are two of our best players and giving them up would just create gaping holes. Outside of Towns is anybody in this draft really worth giving up that much for?

If giving up Sully and Bradley leaves your team with "massive holes", your team sucks plain and simple.

Bradley is redundant with Smart. They are basically the same player, only Smart is slightly bigger and more talented. If you're committed to making Bradley a full-time bench player when we get a real SG, then you might be able to make it work, but then you're watching Avery leave the first chance he gets as some team will make him a starter.

Sully is never in shape, injury-prone, and is always going to be competing with KO for playing time. While I'm no KO fan, I think he's a better fit for the team going forward.

If we can sign two max free agents AND draft WCS, I think this is a no-brainer. I'd shoot the moon and try to sign LMA AND Butler then go all out for Durant next year.

I know it's a long shot but that's the only way we're going to get back in contention. Drafting mid-first rounders trying to beat out Cleveland and Atlanta is silly nonsense..

[sawick48]

can someone name the best FA we've ever signed in the lottery era? 

Kevin Garnett.  We signed all of the Big 3 to contracts when they were UFAs.  Free agents that played here are still free agents after all.

you win points on a technicality, fell good? good.  while true this goes with what I said previously, we are GREAT at keeping our elite talent, we are even good at acquiring elite talent through drafts or trades.  but we are not great at signing elite talent in the form of FAs to our franchise.

[DarkAzcura]

can someone name the best FA we've ever signed in the lottery era? 

Kevin Garnett.  We signed all of the Big 3 to contracts when they were UFAs.  Free agents that played here are still free agents after all.

you win points on a technicality, fell good? good.  while true this goes with what I said previously, we are GREAT at keeping our elite talent, we are even good at acquiring elite talent through drafts or trades.  but we are not great at signing elite talent in the form of FAs to our franchise.

Well, technically the stronger point he could have made is that we convinced KG to sign a max extension upon being traded to the Celtics. The Celtics originally backed off the trade because he didn't agree to an extension, which is a credit to both your point and mine I suppose. No one is right, here.

[tarheelsxxiii]

If we get #4... and Okafor or Russell drop... I will eat my leg off and post tumblr pictures for proof. And I do not own or know what a tumblr account is. But I'd eat it, real good.

TP for making me laugh on a Monday morning. I had the exact same conversation yesterday. I mean, not about eating my (or your, for that matter) leg, but about having no idea what a tumblr is.

Mike

Hhaha, TP back at ya. Sounds... loosely related? Lol. Im glad to be on the same page as someone re: tumblr though.

[hwangjini_1]

can someone name the best FA we've ever signed in the lottery era?  a 36 year old Dominique Wilkins that not even the Hawks wanted anymore? The answer is probably the All Star Dana Barros who couldn't even beat out David Wesley for playing time, and if that's a guy you want to cite as your argument for us being able to sign guys, then I think you just proved my argument. it's not a "myth" that we don't sign FAs, it's more a "fact."  Sure we've made use of our exceptions when we already had a title contender that veterans looking for a ring were happy to join, but impact FAs, no.  and, unfortunately, this offseason will be no different.  and as far as what my point is, it's to look other places for help.  free agency may hold 1 or 2 role players for us just because we have some cap space, but again, expect us to probably overpay them to spend their winters in the northeast. 

There's so many armchair GMs on these boards that just fill holes by throwing the premiere FAs of the day into our lineup as if it's such an easy fix, and then some even act bewildered as to why we never actually get those guys.  I realize it's petty on my end but, like i said in my first post, i got tired of reading it without feeling like i needed to respond.  the only people that care about team history and tradition are the front office, the fans, and players that are already under contract.  sad, but true.

you are joining this on going conversation at cb a bit late. let me raise a few of the points other posters have raised in other threads on this topic.

the question about your premise that has been challenged before at cb is - when during the lottery era has boston ever had the money to sign a big free agent? the answer is "never" and that should be part of your calculations above. since they celtics have not had large dump truck loads of money to unload onto the front lawns of free agents, it is hard to say it is the weather that keeps them away from boston.

next, LA has failed to land free agents - weather and tinsel be [dang]ed. (howard being a recent one) chicago has landed free agents and they have god awful weather.

in other sports, (boston, chicago, toronto, and others) bad-weather cities have landed free agents, so unless only basketball players hate bad weather, this premise has holes in it as well.