Sources: 76ers center Joel Embiid suffers setback with right foot

[greece66]

Ehmmm, interesting piece of news, TP to the OP, but how is this Celtics talk?

This really belongs to "Around the NBA"

[Future Celtics Owner]

Perhaps they are in denial, but the consensus amongst Philly fans seems to be that this is old/minor news.  There's no pain.  There is no reinjury.  There's no announcement yet of any surgery.  Just that it hasn't healed the way they want.  The timing of it is peculiar. 

They seem to think this has to do with DeAngelo Russell.  He cancelled his workout with Philly and it lead to wild speculation.   Russell has been widely believed to be Philly's target... but the Knicks are basically in "Russell or bust" mode since Mudiay is a poor fit for the triangle.  The speculation is that perhaps the Knicks have worked out a deal with the Lakers where the Lakers will take Russell ahead of Philly and send him to the Knicks... and since Philly has two franchise bigs already, they expect that Philly will be forced to take Mudiay and let Okafor fall.   They seem to be speculating that this news about Embiid is coming out to give the illusion that Philly is comfortable taking a big... and perhaps dissuade the Lakers from taking Russell for The Knicks.

Sounds cray... we'll see what happens.

They're definitely in denial. It's not good, particularly if it indicates he's a slow healer long term. I'd say this is a major red flag, whereas I think Embiid's weight and the walking boot incident from earlier were much ado about nothing.

But until we see what the outcome is the chicken littles are overreacting as well.

He didn't get hurt or experience any pain from what I understand. It was just something they noticed in a regular check up on it. Hard to say how serious it is without the particulars.

They certainly are in denial. If it's not healing properly then that could lead to yet another surgery where yet another screw is put in.

I don't even think the Sixers or most their fans are in denial, it's just LB33 and a few unreasonable Sixers fans.

Overall it's a terrible sign for a guy who hasn't played in over a year and still is not healthy and may not be able to play in summer league and training camp either. He hasn't played nearly as much basketball as most guys his age and his body is already breaking down. I don't see him holding up over 82 game seasons for very long imo.

There's nothing to be in denial over.  Everything in the report is specifically unspecific. 

No pain.  No re-injury.  Just that they are looking at the results and it's not as healed as they hope.  So what does that even mean?   It doesn't mean that there is something new wrong.  Whatever showed up in that CT Scan probably showed up in all the other CT Scans.  This likely just means they need to pull back on some of Embiid's activity and take a cautious approach so not to risk reinjuring it. 

And the timing of this in conjunction with all the other draft-related reports coming out about Philly, LA and New york is fairly interesting.  I still say Russell is the PHilly target. 

They had a report like this in March and they stuck Embiid in a walking boot for a week.   I understand that people see Embiid and can't shake the vision of Greg Oden, but until we see something about surgery or a timetable, It seems too early to jump to conclusions here.   Even in Woj's report:

After weeks of rigorous workouts, Embiid had not felt pain in the foot, but a recent CT scan revealed an issue in the healing process, sources said. Philadelphia is consulting with doctors on how to best proceed, and it's still premature to speculate on the possibility of another surgical procedure

We'll see what happens.  Still several months until the season starts.   

FWIW, even with "report", I'd still give up Marcus Smart, #16 and #26 for Embiid.   I think Embiid has the potential to be a franchise player.

That's not "giving up" that's called getting robbed. I wouldn't trade Smart for him straight up, much less including the picks. Only in nba2k if I can set injuries to "off".

Do you really think Embiid could be counted on year after year, 82 games and playoffs? His body isn't right. These are warning signs that you are refusing to listen to.

I wouldnt give up that much, but the fact remains that Embiid has superstar potential. No one on our roster has that, no one we could draft possesses that, and no free agent can quite match it even if they wanted to come here.

He has huge question marks, but when a player with this kind of potential becomes available you have to consider moving assets to get him.

I honestly would rather have Myles Turner and Upshaw. But after this year or next year both will/should be gems and we could always use to trade.

[LarBrd33]

Perhaps they are in denial, but the consensus amongst Philly fans seems to be that this is old/minor news.  There's no pain.  There is no reinjury.  There's no announcement yet of any surgery.  Just that it hasn't healed the way they want.  The timing of it is peculiar. 

They seem to think this has to do with DeAngelo Russell.  He cancelled his workout with Philly and it lead to wild speculation.   Russell has been widely believed to be Philly's target... but the Knicks are basically in "Russell or bust" mode since Mudiay is a poor fit for the triangle.  The speculation is that perhaps the Knicks have worked out a deal with the Lakers where the Lakers will take Russell ahead of Philly and send him to the Knicks... and since Philly has two franchise bigs already, they expect that Philly will be forced to take Mudiay and let Okafor fall.   They seem to be speculating that this news about Embiid is coming out to give the illusion that Philly is comfortable taking a big... and perhaps dissuade the Lakers from taking Russell for The Knicks.

Sounds cray... we'll see what happens.

They're definitely in denial. It's not good, particularly if it indicates he's a slow healer long term. I'd say this is a major red flag, whereas I think Embiid's weight and the walking boot incident from earlier were much ado about nothing.

But until we see what the outcome is the chicken littles are overreacting as well.

He didn't get hurt or experience any pain from what I understand. It was just something they noticed in a regular check up on it. Hard to say how serious it is without the particulars.

They certainly are in denial. If it's not healing properly then that could lead to yet another surgery where yet another screw is put in.

I don't even think the Sixers or most their fans are in denial, it's just LB33 and a few unreasonable Sixers fans.

Overall it's a terrible sign for a guy who hasn't played in over a year and still is not healthy and may not be able to play in summer league and training camp either. He hasn't played nearly as much basketball as most guys his age and his body is already breaking down. I don't see him holding up over 82 game seasons for very long imo.

There's nothing to be in denial over.  Everything in the report is specifically unspecific. 

No pain.  No re-injury.  Just that they are looking at the results and it's not as healed as they hope.  So what does that even mean?   It doesn't mean that there is something new wrong.  Whatever showed up in that CT Scan probably showed up in all the other CT Scans.  This likely just means they need to pull back on some of Embiid's activity and take a cautious approach so not to risk reinjuring it. 

And the timing of this in conjunction with all the other draft-related reports coming out about Philly, LA and New york is fairly interesting.  I still say Russell is the PHilly target. 

They had a report like this in March and they stuck Embiid in a walking boot for a week.   I understand that people see Embiid and can't shake the vision of Greg Oden, but until we see something about surgery or a timetable, It seems too early to jump to conclusions here.   Even in Woj's report:

After weeks of rigorous workouts, Embiid had not felt pain in the foot, but a recent CT scan revealed an issue in the healing process, sources said. Philadelphia is consulting with doctors on how to best proceed, and it's still premature to speculate on the possibility of another surgical procedure

We'll see what happens.  Still several months until the season starts.   

FWIW, even with "report", I'd still give up Marcus Smart, #16 and #26 for Embiid.   I think Embiid has the potential to be a franchise player.

That's not "giving up" that's called getting robbed. I wouldn't trade Smart for him straight up, much less including the picks. Only in nba2k if I can set injuries to "off".

Do you really think Embiid could be counted on year after year, 82 games and playoffs? His body isn't right. These are warning signs that you are refusing to listen to.

I wouldnt give up that much, but the fact remains that Embiid has superstar potential. No one on our roster has that, no one we could draft possesses that, and no free agent can quite match it even if they wanted to come here.

He has huge question marks, but when a player with this kind of potential becomes available you have to consider moving assets to get him.

I honestly would rather have Myles Turner and Upshaw. But after this year or next year both will/should be gems and we could always use to trade.

obviously if he's out another year with a second surgery, that's problematic, but as of right now, I don't see any reason to believe this situation has changed from the draft a year ago.  The injury takes a year to heal fully... it's been a year and they are saying it's not fully healed yet.  So will it be healed in 5 months by the time the season starts?  I will assume, for now, yes. 

We already knew about this injury before the draft last year... hence why the overwhelming top prospect fell to 3rd in the first place.  Boston would have gladly traded #6 + other assets to take Embiid last season in spite of the fact that Smart was expected to be an NBA-ready player who could average 15+ 5+ out of the gate... and Embiid was out a full season.  Smart had an underwhelming rookie season.  I'm operating under the assumption that Embiid will suit up at the start of this season.   I'd still trade #6 (Smart) + #16 + #28 to get Embiid.    Unless there is a big conspiracy to hide the fact that Embiid has re-fractured his foot, Philly says no to such an offer.

I enjoyed this relevant exchange between distraught Philly fans this afternoon:

Fan 1:

We didn't pass up anyone in the draft though. Gordon/Exum/Smart could be nice players, but are hardly franchise changers.

Fan 2:

Maybe, maybe not, but neither is a guy who can't get on the court. I'd take Marcus Smart on this team over Embiid who may never be healthy.

I'm in!... Make it happen, Danny!

[Ilikesports17]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20150615_Could_Embiid_sit_out_another_season__It_s_possible.html

pretty gloom and doom for Philly in this article. However there doesnt seem to be much more than specualation behind it all.

[celticsclay]

That is a really dooom and gloom and article. I don't know anything about their sports coverage, but (unless I am getting sites confused) that site generally has done a good article covering health issues. So I hold the story with a little more respect than a random person on bleacher report. It is weird the article says he is not expected to take part in summer leagues but gives no sources or quotes or anything for saying that. Wonder what is happening.

[Who]

The CT scan a few days ago showed "something different" in the healing of the bone that sustained the stress fracture almost exactly a year ago. The Sixers, no doubt, will try to find out just what course of action to take: surgery, a short stint of inactivity or a layoff that could include Embiid missing the two summer leagues next month.

Another source, contacted yesterday, said that Embiid is now wearing a protective boot.

Link

They still do not know whether this is precautionary, minor or a serious injury. But clearly there is something wrong with Embiid back in the protective boot.

[celticsclay]

The CT scan a few days ago showed "something different" in the healing of the bone that sustained the stress fracture almost exactly a year ago. The Sixers, no doubt, will try to find out just what course of action to take: surgery, a short stint of inactivity or a layoff that could include Embiid missing the two summer leagues next month.

Another source, contacted yesterday, said that Embiid is now wearing a protective boot.

Link

They still do not know whether this is precautionary, minor or a serious injury. But clearly there is something wrong with Embiid back in the protective boot.

If this is all a smokescreen as some have argued this is really unprecedented. They are forcing him to wear a boot for show?

[Eddie20]

The CT scan a few days ago showed "something different" in the healing of the bone that sustained the stress fracture almost exactly a year ago. The Sixers, no doubt, will try to find out just what course of action to take: surgery, a short stint of inactivity or a layoff that could include Embiid missing the two summer leagues next month.

Another source, contacted yesterday, said that Embiid is now wearing a protective boot.

Link

They still do not know whether this is precautionary, minor or a serious injury. But clearly there is something wrong with Embiid back in the protective boot.

If this is all a smokescreen as some have argued this is really unprecedented. They are forcing him to wear a boot for show?

Embiid is the ultimate team guy.

[Eddie20]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20150615_Could_Embiid_sit_out_another_season__It_s_possible.html

76ers center Joel Embiid may not be available to play at the start of the NBA season after the latest setback in the healing of his right foot, an NBA source said Sunday. There's also a legitimate chance that the 7-footer could miss the entire season.

Another source, an Eastern Conference executive, said Sunday that the 76ers' rebuilding plan is doomed if Embiid is unable to remain healthy or play at a high level.

"He was their guy," said the executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They were hoping he was a franchise player. If he's not a franchise player, their whole plan is gone. . . . If Embiid can't play or if he can't reach a superstar level, their plan is really in trouble."

The team announced Saturday night that Embiid has had a setback in his recuperation. The first-round pick from Kansas missed what would have been his rookie season after undergoing surgery last June to repair a stress fracture in the navicular bone in his right foot.

The Sixers had no public statement on Sunday. General manager Sam Hinkie said in a statement Saturday that a recent CT scan, performed in Los Angeles, revealed less healing than anticipated at this point. His recovery time was expected to be five to eight months. But the Sixers handled his rehabilitation with caution and he was expected to sit out the season.

"Our priority remains providing Joel with every opportunity to ensure he has a long and successful NBA career," Hinkie said Saturday. ". . . We will continue to consult with the experienced team of doctors who have been an integral part of his evaluation, while also engaging in dialogue with a broader set of experts and specialists."

It was unknown Sunday if Embiid, 21, would have to undergo another surgery that could sideline him for part of the next season. The team was still gathering information and nothing had been ruled out.

The Cameroonian big man is not expected to participate in the two NBA summer leagues the Sixers will play in next month. It is not known how long he will be sidelined.

"Whatever it is, I doubt you are going to see him play at the start of the season," the NBA source said, pointing out that he expects the Sixers to use even more caution in dealing with Embiid's latest comeback.

Embiid has yet to participate in five-on-five scrimmages with the team. Hinkie said last June that the time line for the center's return was five to eight months, meaning he was scheduled to be able to play by February.

Some sources have said the delay was the result of the foot's not healing properly and Embiid's lackluster work ethic. Those sources said the Sixers did not fully disclose the severity of the injury. The Sixers had said publicly that Embiid's healing process was on schedule before their news release Saturday.

And as they were last season, the Sixers are prepared to keep Embiid out as long as possible in order to focus on his long-term health. As a result, there's a possibility that he could miss another entire season.

"I don't think anyone [around the league] is surprised at all," the NBA executive said. "Cleveland and Milwaukee [which picked first and second in last summer's draft] would not consider him because of the foot and back injuries."

There's a chance this injury could hinder Embiid's career the way it has for other 7-footers. Like Embiid, Yao Ming suffered a stress fracture in the navicular bone in 2008 and again in 2009. That injury forced Yao to retire in 2011.

A stress fracture in Embiid's lower back kept him out of the Big Twelve and NCAA tournaments during his lone season at Kansas in 2013-14. Embiid initially hurt his back Feb. 8 against West Virginia. After returning to action, he aggravated the injury March 1 at Oklahoma State.

Another league source said Embiid's latest setback would not influence the Sixers' plan in the June 25 draft. He said the team still would use the third overall pick on the best available player regardless of position.

[celticsclay]

There is a new story on grantland about it too, no new details though

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-foot-that-ate-philadelphia-joel-embiids-setback-and-what-it-means-for-the-sixers/

[Eddie20]

So Eddie, sounds like you got your own conspiracy theory going.  As far as I can tell, there are three competing conspiracy theories here.  I'll let Philly fans sum it up in their own words:

Conspiracy Theory #1 - "It is VERY curious this is coming out 11 days before the NBA draft... especially when you consider that they did not have to say anything at all.  This is a Front Office that generally says nothing.   They want the rest of the League to know they will have to deal with them to make sure they get one of the bigs in this draft. "

"If this were a conspiracy, it would mean that Hinkie wants a guard. Saying that Embiid's foot isn't healing as expected plus floating the rumor that the Sixers are interested in drafting Kristaps would mean that Hinkie wants other teams to think that he is going to draft a big. Which means he is enamored with one of the guard prospects and wants him to be available (or to trade for him without the other team knowing how much he wants him). If this were an even bigger conspiracy and the Russell news was also a product of it, it would mean that Hinkie may be interested in Russell, and so had him "fake sick" to suggest to other teams that he is not interested in playing for the Sixers and thus that he would be less valuable to Hinkie."

Conspiracy Theory #2 - "Embiid is physically fine, more or less, but Hinkie will not let him play unless he's 110% healthy. Now that Summer League is creeping up and the reality of him playing is on the immediate horizon, the regular CT scans reveal he's closer to 90% healthy (meaning, he feels fine but the soft tissue isn't full around the healed fracture). Knowing that Summer League isn?t the end-all be-all, Hinkie votes an easy no."

Conspiracy Theory #3 -  "My only "conspiracy theory" is that "less healing" = his foot was Re-fractured. Not a doctor, obviously, but dude was cleared to run and jump and otherwise practice. Can't imagine they would have let him do that unless the initial fracture had at least closed."

Seems like this thread is leaning towards Conspiracy Theory #3?

Not sure if I fall in one, other than the "Embiid can't stay healthy" theory, which actual seems like more logic than theory.

You're fully entrenched into #1. Thinking that the Sixers are playing chess to everyone's checkers.

"Embiid can't stay healthy"... He's been recovering from an injury.  He hasn't been fully cleared as "healthy" yet.  Saying he "can't stay" healthy suggests at some point he was healthy.

This report says he's not as healed as they hoped.   At face value, I take that to mean they expected him to be more healed than he is right now.   Everyone surrounding the 76ers has been saying for the past two months that Embiid was "Definitely" playing in the Summer league.  So If I'm in any of the three conspiracy camps, I'm in camp 2:   They are re-setting expectations around Embiid's involvement in Summer league.  They were cautious with Noel last season too... he only played a few of the games as a precaution.

I assume most people here are in Conspiracy camp #3:  Embiid refractured his foot and for some reason instead of just announcing surgery, they released a cryptic press release downplaying the seriousness of it.

Jared Sullinger "can't stay" healthy.  I'd like to see Joel Embiid get healthy before I declare him incapable of staying healthy.  Seems to me, Philly wants to avoid a Greg Oden situation here.  I don't expect to see Embiid playing until he is truly healthy.  That might not happen in 24 days.

So besides the spinal stress fracture, which you seem to often overlook, he was apparently injury riddled in high school too.

This is what his coach said before he played a single game at Kansas…

“When you are 7-feet tall, there’s a lot more to take care of. You are 7-feet tall. There’s more stuff to be concerned with because your body is bigger,” Harden said, referring to tweaking different areas of the body.

“With some rest, he seemed to have it corrected (entering freshman season at KU). I’m sure with the rest he gets now … they have better doctors and trainers and staff over there (at KU) to rehab him and get him back to normal. I’m sure he’ll be all right soon enough,” Harden added.

[get_banners]

I'd be wary of any speculation right now. I see this as possibly a few things. 1, Sixers are trying to play games before the draft to make sure they get who they want at #3 or force teams to trade with them. 2, Embiid is legitimately hurt, and his season and career are in real jeopardy. 3, Embiid is doing relatively okay, but recovery is a little behind, and they don't want to risk any serious damage in the summer league, so they announce this after they find out the news, but he should be totally fine for the season. I don't see any particular reason right now why any one of these is less likely than the other, so I'm not jumping to conspiracy/sky is falling for Philly conclusions yet.

[Eddie20]

I'd be wary of any speculation right now. I see this as possibly a few things. 1, Sixers are trying to play games before the draft to make sure they get who they want at #3 or force teams to trade with them. 2, Embiid is legitimately hurt, and his season and career are in real jeopardy. 3, Embiid is doing relatively okay, but recovery is a little behind, and they don't want to risk any serious damage in the summer league, so they announce this after they find out the news, but he should be totally fine for the season. I don't see any particular reason right now why any one of these is less likely than the other, so I'm not jumping to conspiracy/sky is falling for Philly conclusions yet.

How do people think this is even remotely plausible? If you were a player or agent would you allow a team to release false information that will only jeopardizes yours/or your clients value?

[celticsclay]

I'd be wary of any speculation right now. I see this as possibly a few things. 1, Sixers are trying to play games before the draft to make sure they get who they want at #3 or force teams to trade with them. 2, Embiid is legitimately hurt, and his season and career are in real jeopardy. 3, Embiid is doing relatively okay, but recovery is a little behind, and they don't want to risk any serious damage in the summer league, so they announce this after they find out the news, but he should be totally fine for the season. I don't see any particular reason right now why any one of these is less likely than the other, so I'm not jumping to conspiracy/sky is falling for Philly conclusions yet.

How do people think this is even remotely plausible? If you were a player or agent would you allow a team to release false information that will only jeopardizes yours/or your clients value?

Yea that is literally illegal

[D.o.s.]

shhh shhh don't let facts get in the way here. shh.