#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[D.o.s.]

Hey now, careful with those facts and things.


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sm5lnq

An NFL owner said in an interview with Bleacher Report that he supports the decision by Roger Goodell to hit quarterback Tom Brady and the Patriots hard over Deflategate.
"The main thing (Troy Vincent) said is true," explained the owner, who asked not to be identified, "we need to make sure everyone is following the rules. All of us. I think Roger made the right decision and my guess is the rest of the owners agree."
That part isn't surprising. This other part might not be surprising, either. Yet it was still interesting to hear. The owner said he believes (but made it clear it's just his opinion) that the relationship between Goodell and Kraft is "pretty much dead."
"I can't say for certain but it sure seems that way to me," the owner, who knows both men well, explained.
The owner added: "Some of us (owners) are waiting a little nervously to see what Robert does next."
Kraft released a statement saying: “Despite our conviction that there was no tampering with footballs, it was our intention to accept any discipline levied by the league. Today’s punishment, however, far exceeded any reasonable expectation. It was based completely on circumstantial rather than hard or conclusive evidence.
“We are humbled by the support the New England Patriots have received from our fans throughout the world. We recognize our fans’ concerns regarding the NFL’s penalties and share in their disappointment in how this one-sided investigation was handled, as well as the dismissal of the scientific evidence supported by the Ideal Gas Law in the final report. Tom Brady has our unconditional support. Our belief in him has not wavered.”
The owner did say that while he supported the harsh punishment of the Patriots--including the loss of a first round pick, Brady suspended for four games, and the team fined $1 million--he felt this signaled a new day in the NFL. Some of that is good and some of that is bad, the owner said.
"It's positive that we sent a message that cheating will not be tolerated," the owner explained. "I do think teams are looking around and saying, 'What does this all mean?' Teams are figuring it all out. But I think the bottom line is, don't cheat, and you don't have to worry about getting punished."

[knuckleballer]

"FYI...Dave will be picking your brain later about it. He?s not accusing me, or anyone...trying to get to bottom of it. He knows it?s unrealistic you did it yourself..."
In Belichick's press conference, he explained how they tried to get to the bottom of how the balls were below pressure as all the ball were.  They examined weather, gas laws, and how ball preparation could contribute.  So, wouldn't it make sense to pick the brain of the guy who is in charge of ball preparation? So much of Wells report takes single text messages and heavily analyzes them while leaving out the greater context of the conversation.

I understand that. But there are some reads of this text that don't come out exactly flattering to Brady:

One read is: We know what/how happen, Schoenfeld just thinks it's unrealistic you PERSONALLY did it.

An alternative read: We're not sure what/how happened, but whatever it was it is Schoenfeld thinks it is unrealistic that YOU did it.

I leaned towards the former, but now I can easily see how it could be the latter. Humbug.

Another interpretation is:  The balls are under pressure and we have no idea how this happened.  We are now investigating.  Schoenfeld is going to ask you some questions since you are the one in charge of the footballs.  But don't be nervous, no one is accusing you of doing anything wrong.  We are just trying to figure it out. 

Personally, I think that is exactly the logical communication and steps to take when trying to solve such a mystery.

Maybe, but it's still a curious choice of language.

Not that I agree with that, but doesn't this text message contradict that interpretation?  "You didn?t do anything wrong bud."

[mahonedog88]

Hey now, careful with those facts and things.


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sm5lnq

An NFL owner said in an interview with Bleacher Report that he supports the decision by Roger Goodell to hit quarterback Tom Brady and the Patriots hard over Deflategate.
"The main thing (Troy Vincent) said is true," explained the owner, who asked not to be identified, "we need to make sure everyone is following the rules. All of us. I think Roger made the right decision and my guess is the rest of the owners agree."
That part isn't surprising. This other part might not be surprising, either. Yet it was still interesting to hear. The owner said he believes (but made it clear it's just his opinion) that the relationship between Goodell and Kraft is "pretty much dead."
"I can't say for certain but it sure seems that way to me," the owner, who knows both men well, explained.
The owner added: "Some of us (owners) are waiting a little nervously to see what Robert does next."[/b]
Kraft released a statement saying: “Despite our conviction that there was no tampering with footballs, it was our intention to accept any discipline levied by the league. Today’s punishment, however, far exceeded any reasonable expectation. It was based completely on circumstantial rather than hard or conclusive evidence.
“We are humbled by the support the New England Patriots have received from our fans throughout the world. We recognize our fans’ concerns regarding the NFL’s penalties and share in their disappointment in how this one-sided investigation was handled, as well as the dismissal of the scientific evidence supported by the Ideal Gas Law in the final report. Tom Brady has our unconditional support. Our belief in him has not wavered.”
The owner did say that while he supported the harsh punishment of the Patriots--including the loss of a first round pick, Brady suspended for four games, and the team fined $1 million--he felt this signaled a new day in the NFL. Some of that is good and some of that is bad, the owner said.
"It's positive that we sent a message that cheating will not be tolerated," the owner explained. "I do think teams are looking around and saying, 'What does this all mean?' Teams are figuring it all out. But I think the bottom line is, don't cheat, and you don't have to worry about getting punished."

This looks like this is going to get ugly.  Clearly the team and Brady are gonna fight this to the death.  And considering how they're going about this, either they're reaching Roger Clemens status where Brady is just straight-up delusional and is unwilling to admit to himself or anyone else that he did cheat...or he's innocent, and it's a case of circumstantial evidence being spun very well by a good lawyer to make him look guilty.

[kozlodoev]

Not that I agree with that, but doesn't this text message contradict that interpretation?  "You didn?t do anything wrong bud."

Why would it? Jastremski didn't tamper with any footballs, so he technically did nothing wrong.

[kozlodoev]

This looks like this is going to get ugly.  Clearly the team and Brady are gonna fight this to the death.  And considering how they're going about this, either they're reaching Roger Clemens status where Brady is just straight-up delusional and is unwilling to admit to himself or anyone else that he did cheat...or he's innocent.

The message clearly isn't, "Don't cheat and you won't get punished". The message is "Don't be the Patriots, and you won't pay an arm and a leg for equipment violations that are otherwise routinely treated with a slap on the wrist".

There's an interesting middle ground in this, though. What if Brady told his equipment guys to just make sure that his footballs are never overinflated to unplayability again. That puts him in a place where he had no intention to submit or play with noncompliant balls, but probably knew what was going on.

[mahonedog88]

This looks like this is going to get ugly.  Clearly the team and Brady are gonna fight this to the death.  And considering how they're going about this, either they're reaching Roger Clemens status where Brady is just straight-up delusional and is unwilling to admit to himself or anyone else that he did cheat...or he's innocent.

The message clearly isn't "Don't cheat and you won't get punished". The message is "Don't be the Patriots, and you won't pay an arm and a leg for equipment violations that are otherwise routinely treated with a slap on the wrist".

I honestly don't think the majority of this punishment is for the actual equipment violations.  It seems to me like they decided to really come down hard because Brady or the team "didn't full cooperate with the investigation", plus it seems as though both Brady and McNally were caught in lies during the investigation...Brady saying he has no idea who McNally is, McNally saying he never stopped in the bathroom.  It's not a good look.  It still doesn't mean he's not innocent, but I really think this where the massive punishment comes from

[knuckleballer]

Not that I agree with that, but doesn't this text message contradict that interpretation?  "You didn?t do anything wrong bud."

Why would it? Jastremski didn't tamper with any footballs, so he technically did nothing wrong.

If he was a part of the scheme as Wells has determined, then he did do something wrong even if he was not technically deflating footballs himself.  The stament that he did nothing wrong, implies he was not part of a scheme and therefore inncoent.  And now where back to the interpretation that Shoenfeld talking to him was just about fact finding. 

Doesn't our back and forth over the interpetation of a single text message show how ridiculous it is to assign guilt and deliver punishment solely over such ambiguous interpretations?

[knuckleballer]

This looks like this is going to get ugly.  Clearly the team and Brady are gonna fight this to the death.  And considering how they're going about this, either they're reaching Roger Clemens status where Brady is just straight-up delusional and is unwilling to admit to himself or anyone else that he did cheat...or he's innocent.

The message clearly isn't "Don't cheat and you won't get punished". The message is "Don't be the Patriots, and you won't pay an arm and a leg for equipment violations that are otherwise routinely treated with a slap on the wrist".

I honestly don't think the majority of this punishment is for the actual equipment violations.  It seems to me like they decided to really come down hard because Brady or the team "didn't full cooperate with the investigation", plus it seems as though both Brady and McNally were caught in lies during the investigation...Brady saying he has no idea who McNally is, McNally saying he never stopped in the bathroom.  It's not a good look.  It still doesn't mean he's not innocent, but I really think this where the massive punishment comes from

From what I understand, Brady did not deny knowing McNally.  He just only knew him by his nickname "Bird" and wasn't fully aware of all his reponsibilities.  The guy only works home game days afterall.  Does that really constitute as a lie?

[mahonedog88]

While it will never be proven, I still say John Harbaugh was the one who initiated all of this.  He whined about the Pats creative use of the eligible/ineligible receiver rule, so Brady responded with his "study the rulebook" comment.

I know Ryan Grigson and the Colts were the ones to initially email the league about their concerns, but both Grigson and Chuck Pagano originally came from Baltimore and worked with Harbaugh.  They're buddies and both hold a common disliking for the Patriots.  As soon as Harbaugh heard the "study the rulebook" comment, I think that got the ball rolling on all of this.

Even the email sent by the Colts to the league specifically said "We, along with many other teams, widely believe they've been doing this for awhile."  Well if it was going on for awhile, why wait so long to mention something?...That rulebook comment I really think has started all of this.

[mahonedog88]

This looks like this is going to get ugly.  Clearly the team and Brady are gonna fight this to the death.  And considering how they're going about this, either they're reaching Roger Clemens status where Brady is just straight-up delusional and is unwilling to admit to himself or anyone else that he did cheat...or he's innocent.

The message clearly isn't "Don't cheat and you won't get punished". The message is "Don't be the Patriots, and you won't pay an arm and a leg for equipment violations that are otherwise routinely treated with a slap on the wrist".

I honestly don't think the majority of this punishment is for the actual equipment violations.  It seems to me like they decided to really come down hard because Brady or the team "didn't full cooperate with the investigation", plus it seems as though both Brady and McNally were caught in lies during the investigation...Brady saying he has no idea who McNally is, McNally saying he never stopped in the bathroom.  It's not a good look.  It still doesn't mean he's not innocent, but I really think this where the massive punishment comes from

From what I understand, Brady did not deny knowing McNally.  He just only knew him by his nickname "Bird".  The guy only works home game days afterall.  Does that really constitute as a lie?

I know Tedy Bruschi brought up the whole "Bird" nickname...but I'm pretty sure when Brady was first asked about it in this investigation, he said he had never heard of or seen him ever before in his life...and worded that way, boldfaced lie.

[GratefulCs]

This looks like this is going to get ugly.  Clearly the team and Brady are gonna fight this to the death.  And considering how they're going about this, either they're reaching Roger Clemens status where Brady is just straight-up delusional and is unwilling to admit to himself or anyone else that he did cheat...or he's innocent.

The message clearly isn't, "Don't cheat and you won't get punished". The message is "Don't be the Patriots, and you won't pay an arm and a leg for equipment violations that are otherwise routinely treated with a slap on the wrist".

There's an interesting middle ground in this, though. What if Brady told his equipment guys to just make sure that his footballs are never overinflated to unplayability again. That puts him in a place where he had no intention to submit or play with noncompliant balls, but probably knew what was going on.

TP

[Granath]

This looks like this is going to get ugly.  Clearly the team and Brady are gonna fight this to the death.  And considering how they're going about this, either they're reaching Roger Clemens status where Brady is just straight-up delusional and is unwilling to admit to himself or anyone else that he did cheat...or he's innocent.

The message clearly isn't, "Don't cheat and you won't get punished". The message is "Don't be the Patriots, and you won't pay an arm and a leg for equipment violations that are otherwise routinely treated with a slap on the wrist".

 

Scenario #1 - There is this giant conspiracy against the Patriots in the NFL.

Scenario #2 - Goodell thinks there is proof that Patriots cheated and that it helped them win a Super Bowl. Punishment ensues that is entirely consistent with other high profile cases.

While I'm sure #1 is the preferred way of thinking among certain deluded Patriots fans who refuse to face reality, it's #2 that is the truth.

[kozlodoev]

Not that I agree with that, but doesn't this text message contradict that interpretation?  "You didn?t do anything wrong bud."

Why would it? Jastremski didn't tamper with any footballs, so he technically did nothing wrong.

If he was a part of the scheme as Wells has determined, then he did do something wrong even if he was not technically deflating footballs himself.  The stament that he did nothing wrong, implies he was not part of a scheme and therefore inncoent.  And now where back to the interpretation that Shoenfeld talking to him was just about fact finding. 

Doesn't our back and forth over the interpetation of a single text message show how ridiculous it is to assign guilt and deliver punishment solely over such ambiguous interpretations?

We're not talking about what the NFL determined here, we're talking about what the perception might have been. It doesn't directly imply innocence or guilt, which makes interpreting it one way or the other highly problematic.

For what we know, Brady was just trying to calm his gear guy down so he doesn't have a full-blown meltdown

[Donoghus]

This looks like this is going to get ugly.  Clearly the team and Brady are gonna fight this to the death.  And considering how they're going about this, either they're reaching Roger Clemens status where Brady is just straight-up delusional and is unwilling to admit to himself or anyone else that he did cheat...or he's innocent.

The message clearly isn't, "Don't cheat and you won't get punished". The message is "Don't be the Patriots, and you won't pay an arm and a leg for equipment violations that are otherwise routinely treated with a slap on the wrist".

 

Scenario #1 - There is this giant conspiracy against the Patriots in the NFL.

Scenario #2 - Goodell thinks there is proof that Patriots cheated and that it helped them win a Super Bowl. Punishment ensues that is entirely consistent with other high profile cases.

While I'm sure #1 is the preferred way of thinking among certain deluded Patriots fans who refuse to face reality, it's #2 that is the truth.

That's cute. 

[GratefulCs]

While it will never be proven, I still say John Harbaugh was the one who initiated all of this.  He whined about the Pats creative use of the eligible/ineligible receiver rule, so Brady responded with his "study the rulebook" comment.

I know Ryan Grigson and the Colts were the ones to initially email the league about their concerns, but both Grigson and Chuck Pagano originally came from Baltimore and worked with Harbaugh.  They're buddies and both hold a common disliking for the Patriots.  As soon as Harbaugh heard the "study the rulebook" comment, I think that got the ball rolling on all of this.

Even the email sent by the Colts to the league specifically said "We, along with many other teams, widely believe they've been doing this for awhile."  Well if it was going on for awhile, why wait so long to mention something?...That rulebook comment I really think has started all of this.

ya, harbaugh was embarrassed


The sad thing is that non patriot fans won't ever give them credit for the genius (by the book) ideas they've had