Post Game: Crowder says Stevens needs to hold players more accountable

[LarBrd33]

Well this it too bad. The team doesn't have the talent to compete.  Ainge hired Stevens with the expectation that this team will be terrible for 3-5 years... Hence the 6 year deal.  Stevens job is to develop players for the future. He isn't here to win right now.  Problem is, it's really hard for a coach to keep the Locker room healthy when they are losing consistently.

What needs to happen is for us to eliminate the veterans from the roster. These guys will not respect brad.  Ainge is trying to dump them as quickly as possible but it can't happen soon enough.  The kids like young, Oly and smart should be fine here.  They are still trying to make a name for themselves so they can get paid. Winning doesn't really matter to them. 

I understand that because these comments are coming from an unproven player like crowder it kind of goes against what I'm saying, but it seems to me that the sooner we get rid of guys like bass, green, Wallace and jameer, the sooner the kids can lose in peace and everyone will just be happy to get NBA minutes.

[tazzmaniac]

Stevens postgame:

This quote makes no sense to me.  How does Stevens expect the players to play good basketball without defined rotations?  Right now each game is just an experiment in swapping players in and out and hoping to hit on some combination that works for that particular game. 

[LarBrd33]

Stevens postgame:

This quote makes no sense to me.  How does Stevens expect the players to play good basketball without defined rotations?  Right now each game is just an experiment in swapping players in and out and hoping to hit on some combination that works for that particular game.

Very true. His style of random rotations doesn't work in the NBA. I've seen it tried before. Players need defined roles.  It may work on the college level, but never the pro game.  Pros perform best when they know specifically when they are getting their minutes.   It will be easier to set the lineup after we dump the vets.  Let's just make it to mid feb without killing each other.  It's been a problem since day one.  We have too many redundant mediocre players. They all deserve playing time, but none of them are great.   Adding several more redundant mediocre players just magnifies the problem. Some people go,  "oh great we added more talent!" but when you have a roster of assets, it requires showcasing and lots of even minutes. It results in bad basketball.

[tazzmaniac]

Stevens postgame:

This quote makes no sense to me.  How does Stevens expect the players to play good basketball without defined rotations?  Right now each game is just an experiment in swapping players in and out and hoping to hit on some combination that works for that particular game.

Very true. His style of random rotations doesn't work in the NBA. I've seen it tried before. Players need defined roles.  It may work on the college level, but never the pro game.  Pros perform best when they know specifically when they are getting their minutes.   It will be easier to set the lineup after we dump the vets.  Let's just make it to mid feb without killing each other.  It's been a problem since day one.  We have too many redundant mediocre players. They all deserve playing time, but none of them are great.   Adding several more redundant mediocre players just magnifies the problem. Some people go,  "oh great we added more talent!" but when you have a roster of assets, it requires showcasing and lots of even minutes. It results in bad basketball.

Besides rebuilding Turner's reputation, I see no need to showcase any of the other vets.  Green, Bass, Wright, etc are known entities.  Showcasing them isn't going to make them any more tradable.  Besides if you were trying to showcase players, random rotations is a horrible way to go about it.  Defined rotations would work much better or you could allocate playing time based on favorable individual matchups. 

If Ainge can make some reasonably good trades, he should do it.  However I don't see dumping all the vets as a good idea.  Vets are who teach the young players learn how to be professional athletes.  Stevens certainly can't do that.  He's having enough troubles trying to figure out how to coach at the NBA level.     

[dwoumn]

Who is their to blame? There is no particular party that should shoulder the blame. Brad Stevens is a smart coach with an impressive background at the college level but he is definitely a people pleaser and a player's coach. I want to see more fire out of him. As for the rotations, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes and how much control he really has but at some point he will have a team where he has more control of his rotation. Brad Stevens is still the right man for the job.

Anyone who knows or played basketball knows that a coach can only preach hard work and effort but he can't teach it. That is something the players have to fine on their own. Crowder has a right to say what he says but it's time for the team to step up to the plate and accept the challenge. Glad Crowder said what he said because Coach Stevens has to make players accountable buy the players themselves have to be accountable for themselves. It's hard playing for a team when you don't know if you're going to be on the team tomorrow but if you're on the team at tip-off you have to play hard for 48 mins. It's a hard thing to do but that's what happened when this players signed up to be in the NBA.

Danny Ainge has not helped the team recently. Trading away our lead has  eft the C's w/ no leadership on the team. Must be hard for Bass and Green as veterans to be leaders knowing that their time in Boston is running out of time and Bradley, the next veteran up, doesn't seem like a guy that speaks up. Ainge has the Celtics with a bunch of misfits trying to play together. He has no made a clear direction for this team and who knows when that direction will be made.

At the end of the day, this is what we have and for us to be better it starts with the players just playing basketball, Coach Stevens putting the team in a situation to excute both offensively and defensively and for Ainge to put together what he believes to be the best version of the Celtics out on the floor. Until all these factors come together we will continue to be what we were after tonight's loss.

[blink]

Jae Crowder was my favorite celtic the minute he got here.

he is my fav. right now.  I mean we can't trade everyone anyways right? haha

[blink]

Well this it too bad. The team doesn't have the talent to compete.  Ainge hired Stevens with the expectation that this team will be terrible for 3-5 years... Hence the 6 year deal.  Stevens job is to develop players for the future. He isn't here to win right now.  Problem is, it's really hard for a coach to keep the Locker room healthy when they are losing consistently.

What needs to happen is for us to eliminate the veterans from the roster. These guys will not respect brad.  Ainge is trying to dump them as quickly as possible but it can't happen soon enough.  The kids like young, Oly and smart should be fine here.  They are still trying to make a name for themselves so they can get paid. Winning doesn't really matter to them. 

I understand that because these comments are coming from an unproven player like crowder it kind of goes against what I'm saying, but it seems to me that the sooner we get rid of guys like bass, green, Wallace and jameer, the sooner the kids can lose in peace and everyone will just be happy to get NBA minutes.

I agree with this 100%.  All of it.  Unfortunately so do the rest of the GMs in the nba and that is going to make it nearly impossible to get any value from green and bass.  Oh well, it is what it is at this point.  Hopefully some team will give us something for them and the vets can get to teams where the can compete.  Just a super difficult time for everyone.

[goCeltics]

keep green and bass so long as we keep losing, c's are doing great since the trade headed for the early lottery

[LarBrd33]

Stevens postgame:

This quote makes no sense to me.  How does Stevens expect the players to play good basketball without defined rotations?  Right now each game is just an experiment in swapping players in and out and hoping to hit on some combination that works for that particular game.

Very true. His style of random rotations doesn't work in the NBA. I've seen it tried before. Players need defined roles.  It may work on the college level, but never the pro game.  Pros perform best when they know specifically when they are getting their minutes.   It will be easier to set the lineup after we dump the vets.  Let's just make it to mid feb without killing each other.  It's been a problem since day one.  We have too many redundant mediocre players. They all deserve playing time, but none of them are great.   Adding several more redundant mediocre players just magnifies the problem. Some people go,  "oh great we added more talent!" but when you have a roster of assets, it requires showcasing and lots of even minutes. It results in bad basketball.

Besides rebuilding Turner's reputation, I see no need to showcase any of the other vets.  Green, Bass, Wright, etc are known entities.  Showcasing them isn't going to make them any more tradable.  Besides if you were trying to showcase players, random rotations is a horrible way to go about it.  Defined rotations would work much better or you could allocate playing time based on favorable individual matchups. 

If Ainge can make some reasonably good trades, he should do it.  However I don't see dumping all the vets as a good idea.  Vets are who teach the young players learn how to be professional athletes.  Stevens certainly can't do that.  He's having enough troubles trying to figure out how to coach at the NBA level.   

Agree with you to an extent Tazz, but as soon as the Celtics bench those guys they will effectively be killing whatever bargaining power they have.  Once they start benching their best veterans, it's clear they are desperate to move them.  Ainge has to at least continue the facade that he's willing to keep those guys on the roster.  We'll continue to see those guys get minutes until we inevitably take the best available offer at the deadline.

We'll see them traded or bought out.

[Who]

KO is soft as a grape.  He needs a coach who will get in his face and force him to compete on the defensive end - but in the end, he is what he is and they knew this when they drafted him.  Green has had a good year - till recently - offensively.  Defensively he hasn't hustled all season and when his shot's not falling he's just in a fog.  And his shot hasn't been falling for a couple of weeks.

I think someone like Paul Silas would be great for Olynyk.

Someone who will challenge him and will teach him how to play with physicality.

[Sixth Man]

This is the most Gerald Wallace-like Jae Crowder has ever been, so points to whoever made that comparison in advance a week or two ago.

Maybe he's channeling Gerald.  Might not be that difficult from just a few feet away.    Whatever the reality, I just hope that Wallace isn't Crowder's ventriloquist or that there is some kind of short-range soul transference thingy going on.

[GreenWarrior]

Well this it too bad. The team doesn't have the talent to compete.  Ainge hired Stevens with the expectation that this team will be terrible for 3-5 years... Hence the 6 year deal.  Stevens job is to develop players for the future. He isn't here to win right now.  Problem is, it's really hard for a coach to keep the Locker room healthy when they are losing consistently.

What needs to happen is for us to eliminate the veterans from the roster. These guys will not respect brad.  Ainge is trying to dump them as quickly as possible but it can't happen soon enough.  The kids like young, Oly and smart should be fine here.  They are still trying to make a name for themselves so they can get paid. Winning doesn't really matter to them. 

I understand that because these comments are coming from an unproven player like crowder it kind of goes against what I'm saying, but it seems to me that the sooner we get rid of guys like bass, green, Wallace and jameer, the sooner the kids can lose in peace and everyone will just be happy to get NBA minutes.

the team was built poorly before Rondo left and it's only gotten worse. I think it's kind of by design by Ainge. just a collection of players, most of which whose talents would be better suited getting some mins. on a playoff team...and then a bunch of young guys running around like the chicken with no head.

and while I don't think Stevens is tanking I actually believe he's trying to win. but I think Stevens is in on danny's plan to tank.

if they don't get what it is they're holding out for in return for green/bass and end up settling for a rondo deal. we can look at this as another mistake.

[clover]

Love the comments.  From the start, Stevens has not had the control of the team you have to have in the NBA.

Mike

Agreed. Part of that has been his nature, part the obsequious kowtowing to Rondo, part the losing with a bad team, and part his limited performance trying to learn to coach in the NBA.

[clover]

A few thoughts I have on this...

- Brad is a players coach...to a fault.  He seems to be a bit of a people pleaser.  That might work in the living room of a high school senior, but not the world of millionaire nba players.  I get that he's cool and calm, but my goodness, the guy just seems to be so stoic it's frustrating.

- Danny has done Brad NO FAVORS.  I remember Danny saying last year that the roster lacked balance.  Well, Danny boy, you've done it again...  You've assembled a roster of 15 players in which ALL OF THEM need to play.  They are all basically role players, and they ALL could play 25-30 minutes per night.  Oh, and once Thornton comes back what will yet again happen to Brad's rotations??  It's a mess, and Danny needs to start shipping some pieces out.

- Which leads me to this point: Brad needs to show some stones and JUST PLAY a rotation of TEN GUYS!!  So 5 guys aren't happy??  Who cares...  Be a man and put your foot down.  If it means that Bass, Jameer, Thornton, Wallace and Avery sit - so be it.  Let's be honest: how many of these guys are coming back?  How many of them will even be here come late February?  Yet Brad seems like he wants to be the likeable guy and not offend anyone...  But it's not working.

- Which leads me to this point: He can't find a combination that works well.  But I THINK maybe tonight will be the eye opener...  That last group of guys hustled their tails off.  I want to see what Crowder is made of.  I already like him.  Young may have had his coming out party tonight.  Marcus needs to learn how to play, warts and all.  But Brad keeps mixing and matching these guys like a fire drill, and I find it sickening.  There is no cohesion to how they play.  Um Brad...that is TOTALLY on YOU as coach.

- Lastly, I don't know if Brad will stick around.  I really don't.  I remember how Pitino started to sound before he walked away and let Jim O'Brien take over.  Pitino was a defeated man.  His comments were self-defeating.  Brad sounded the same tonight.  Let's be honest: we hit ROCK BOTTOM tonight.  We were getting killed by a lowly basketball team that didn't even have their best (or 2nd best) player (Jefferson).  It was embarrassing...  Is Stevens in over his head?  I don't know, but this college mindset he displays, and his continual comments of how he's learning all the time...  If I were an NBA player, I'm not sure how well I would receive that.  He just sounds lost at times, and that quote he gave tonight is the quote of all quotes of a coach groping in the dark.

But this team is a mess right now.  I keep hearing about the "process" - but I must be honest, I don't really know what that means.  I think I'd feel better about being a fan of the 76ers right now, as it's as clear as could be what their "process" is.  I don't know if we're wanting to lose... play veterans...make the playoffs...lose and bottom out.  I'm confused.  And the more Danny opens his mouth the more confused I get...

I agree about Crowder. I wouldn't mind Crowder and Smart starting over Green and Bradley--even if Danny is desperately shopping Green right now.

I just hope his post-game comments haven't made it harder for Brad to give him more time right now.

And I agree about Stevens maybe not sticking around. I had figured he'd tough it out through next year before he and Danny found him a graceful return to the college ranks. But he did sound halfway ready to fire himself tonight.

Update: Just listened to Stevens again, and that was actually his Bill Belichick impersonation. You could hear and see his expressions, tone and phrasing change when he came to talking about needing to coach better. He was channeling Bill in pretty much a pure imitation.

[clover]

Which is why I believe that the rotations are more Danny than Brad. Showcasing talent to have their trade values increase. He never went 11 deep in Butler playing 10 minutes or more. But in Boston he's playing 12 guys. That's two different rotation philosophies. Either he still hasnt figured out his rotation or someone from above is telling him to play the other guys.

You really think that playing someone 5 minutes "showcases" them for anything? Most of our veterans are what they are, and as such are a pretty well known commodity around the league.

This is from ESPN.com

Brandon Bass: 17 mpg
Avery Bradley: 30 mpg
Jae Crowder: 15 mpg
Jeff Green: 33 mpg
Jameer Nelson: 20 mpg
Kelly Olynyk: 25 mpg
Marcus Smart: 19 mpg
Jared Sullinger: 28 mpg
Marcus Thornton (pre injury): 15 mpg
Evan Turner: 24 mpg
Brandan Wright: 11 mpg
Tyler Zeller: 20 mpg

Only 3 players are averaging single digit minutes in our lineup (Pressey, Young, Wallace). Everybody else has ENOUGH time to showcase what they can do.

Where's this 5 minutes that you're talking about?

I don't think Wright's playing time has been helping his value at all. Better to have left the impression he had from his very effective 20 minutes-a-game contribution to Dallas than to see him as a 10-minute-a-game afterthought on a poorly performing team. Likewise Nelson, who was last seen as he starting PG on a team that was very high-powered offensively, but defensively mediocre. Nothing he can do here is going to improve an that accurate showcasing.

Crowder looks good right off, but I don't want to see him traded.

And, I presume the OP's 5-minute reference is to those nights when Brad has stuck Bass or Wright in for only that long.