Poll

Would you rather have the entire career of dirk or kg?

Dirk Nowitzki
8 (18.2%)
Kevin Garnett
36 (81.8%)

Total Members Voted: 43

Author Topic: Dirk or KG  (Read 19007 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2014, 06:51:07 PM »

Offline Snakehead

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6846
  • Tommy Points: 448
KG is the best PF to ever play.  Case closed for me.

A complete player.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2014, 06:51:27 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
but it seems clear that Dirk has done more with less

That's ridiculous.  KG spent the bulk of his career playing for one of the worst non-Clippers franchises in NBA history and still managed to drag them to the playoffs year after year.

Mike

Yeah, Dirk got to play with two other all stars in Michael Finley and Steve Nash very early on in his career, while KG didn't have that opportunity until McHale acquired two guys who were near the end of their respective primes in Sprewell and Cassell in 2003.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2014, 06:59:39 PM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.


KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What? ???

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.
Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.


His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

Has everyone forgotten just how dominant the Cavs were that year?  I don't think that we could have beaten them without homecourt, and even then, it would have been a toss-up at best.  They embarrassed us twice in Cleveland, once without KG, but to suggest that it would have been a walk in the park for us to get to the finals is quite ridiculous, imo.  The Cavs wanted us, we no longer had Posey, and Leon went down (which may or may not have happened depending on if Garnett didn't get hurt).  Even if Rondo played the way he did when KG was hurt in the playoffs with a healthy Garnett (sorry, I know that I've written this rather poorly), I don't think that we would have gotten out of the east, and even if we'd had, the Lakers would've beaten us, because, again, WE HAD NO DEPTH.  Thanks Danny (sarcasm)!

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2014, 07:19:08 PM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • Walter Brown
  • ********************************
  • Posts: 32765
  • Tommy Points: 1732
  • What a Pub Should Be
KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.


KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What? ???

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.
Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.


His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

Has everyone forgotten just how dominant the Cavs were that year?  I don't think that we could have beaten them without homecourt, and even then, it would have been a toss-up at best.  They embarrassed us twice in Cleveland, once without KG, but to suggest that it would have been a walk in the park for us to get to the finals is quite ridiculous, imo.  The Cavs wanted us, we no longer had Posey, and Leon went down (which may or may not have happened depending on if Garnett didn't get hurt).  Even if Rondo played the way he did when KG was hurt in the playoffs with a healthy Garnett (sorry, I know that I've written this rather poorly), I don't think that we would have gotten out of the east, and even if we'd had, the Lakers would've beaten us, because, again, WE HAD NO DEPTH.  Thanks Danny (sarcasm)!

I didn't forget squat.  That Celtics team was cruising until KG went down that night in Utah.  They were something like 44-11.  Have you forgotten how dominant that Celtics team was up until that point?   Sure, CLE ended up with the better record but by only 4 games and that's with roughly 2 months of basketball after KG went down.

Sure, they weren't as deep as the '08 team but, with a healthy KG, they were doing just fine.  Come playoff time,  with extended minutes and shorter rotations, they would've been well off, IMO.  Hell, they still came within a win of the conference finals w/o KG/Powe and they're not going 7 the series before with Chicago if KG is out there.  A conference finals with KG/Powe against CLE? I'm still liking their chances home court or not.

That injury crippled their title hopes but they were a very solid contender for repeating before KG went down.  Now the Powe thing? Who knows whether or not that happens in a healthy KG scenario.

Now if you wanna battle word usage or semantics about "cruise"' have fun with that but it's something I'm going to waste my time with. 


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2014, 08:26:43 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.


KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What? ???

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.
Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.


His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

Has everyone forgotten just how dominant the Cavs were that year?  I don't think that we could have beaten them without homecourt, and even then, it would have been a toss-up at best.  They embarrassed us twice in Cleveland, once without KG, but to suggest that it would have been a walk in the park for us to get to the finals is quite ridiculous, imo.  The Cavs wanted us, we no longer had Posey, and Leon went down (which may or may not have happened depending on if Garnett didn't get hurt).  Even if Rondo played the way he did when KG was hurt in the playoffs with a healthy Garnett (sorry, I know that I've written this rather poorly), I don't think that we would have gotten out of the east, and even if we'd had, the Lakers would've beaten us, because, again, WE HAD NO DEPTH.  Thanks Danny (sarcasm)!

  The Cavs finished a few games ahead of us because KG missed about 1/3 of the season with a knee injury. The Cavs were easily beaten by a Magic team that was close to even with the KG-less Celts. The Cavs wouldn't have posed that much of a problem in the playoffs.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #50 on: November 12, 2014, 08:59:07 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9143
  • Tommy Points: 923
Dirk had Steve Nash for 6 years. Michael Finley for 8 years. Both of whom were all-stars while in Dallas. He had Antoine Walker for a year and Jamison who won 6th man of the year. He had more help than KG did in Minnesota.

Oh and a team of Nash, Dirk, Finley, Walker and Jamison? It lost in the 1st round.

KG won 50 games in the West and yes lost in the first round but with Terell Brandon or Wally Szczerbiak as his second banana.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #51 on: November 12, 2014, 09:17:37 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
I think saying that Dirk 'had Steve Nash' implies something fairly different from the reality of the situation that was Steve Nash in Dallas. To me, that's kind of like saying 'he had Chris Paul' when, in fact, 'he had Mike Conley.'

That's not a knock on Mike Conley.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2014, 09:34:07 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9143
  • Tommy Points: 923
I think saying that Dirk 'had Steve Nash' implies something fairly different from the reality of the situation that was Steve Nash in Dallas. To me, that's kind of like saying 'he had Chris Paul' when, in fact, 'he had Mike Conley.'

That's not a knock on Mike Conley.

Nash was a 2 time all-star in Dallas. Yes, not at his peak then but better than Mike Conley. Finley also was a two time all-star and a steady 18-20 ppg scorer.

KG's best teammate and even that is just one season was a 33 year old Sam Cassell.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2014, 01:12:25 AM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.


KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What? ???

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.
Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.


His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

Has everyone forgotten just how dominant the Cavs were that year?  I don't think that we could have beaten them without homecourt, and even then, it would have been a toss-up at best.  They embarrassed us twice in Cleveland, once without KG, but to suggest that it would have been a walk in the park for us to get to the finals is quite ridiculous, imo.  The Cavs wanted us, we no longer had Posey, and Leon went down (which may or may not have happened depending on if Garnett didn't get hurt).  Even if Rondo played the way he did when KG was hurt in the playoffs with a healthy Garnett (sorry, I know that I've written this rather poorly), I don't think that we would have gotten out of the east, and even if we'd had, the Lakers would've beaten us, because, again, WE HAD NO DEPTH.  Thanks Danny (sarcasm)!

  The Cavs finished a few games ahead of us because KG missed about 1/3 of the season with a knee injury. The Cavs were easily beaten by a Magic team that was close to even with the KG-less Celts. The Cavs wouldn't have posed that much of a problem in the playoffs.

That's because Orlando presented so many mathup problems for Cleveland, especially between Howard, who was so much faster, stronger, and quicker than Big Z, Varejao, or Joe Smith (Ben Wallace wasn't playing the role that he had early in the season due to a significant injury), and Rashard Lewis.  None of the said Cavs big guys were quick enough to stay with him off the dribble or recover in a pick and roll, and, to make matters worse (not that I feel sorry for Cleveland lol), none of those guys could attack him because the major contributors in Z and Floppy were never post players.  I really think that you guys should go back and look over that series.  Something tells me you're viewing such a time with much more of a positive outlook than was felt at the time lol.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2014, 01:40:42 AM »

Offline Beat LA

  • NCE
  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8338
  • Tommy Points: 896
  • Mr. Emoji
KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.


KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What? ???

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.
Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.


His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

Has everyone forgotten just how dominant the Cavs were that year?  I don't think that we could have beaten them without homecourt, and even then, it would have been a toss-up at best.  They embarrassed us twice in Cleveland, once without KG, but to suggest that it would have been a walk in the park for us to get to the finals is quite ridiculous, imo.  The Cavs wanted us, we no longer had Posey, and Leon went down (which may or may not have happened depending on if Garnett didn't get hurt).  Even if Rondo played the way he did when KG was hurt in the playoffs with a healthy Garnett (sorry, I know that I've written this rather poorly), I don't think that we would have gotten out of the east, and even if we'd had, the Lakers would've beaten us, because, again, WE HAD NO DEPTH.  Thanks Danny (sarcasm)!

I didn't forget squat.  That Celtics team was cruising until KG went down that night in Utah.  They were something like 44-11.  Have you forgotten how dominant that Celtics team was up until that point?   Sure, CLE ended up with the better record but by only 4 games and that's with roughly 2 months of basketball after KG went down.

Sure, they weren't as deep as the '08 team but, with a healthy KG, they were doing just fine.  Come playoff time,  with extended minutes and shorter rotations, they would've been well off, IMO.  Hell, they still came within a win of the conference finals w/o KG/Powe and they're not going 7 the series before with Chicago if KG is out there.  A conference finals with KG/Powe against CLE? I'm still liking their chances home court or not.

That injury crippled their title hopes but they were a very solid contender for repeating before KG went down.  Now the Powe thing? Who knows whether or not that happens in a healthy KG scenario.

Now if you wanna battle word usage or semantics about "cruise"' have fun with that but it's something I'm going to waste my time with.

No, I remember how hungry they were to repeat.  Didn't they start the season at 20-1, 20-2 or something?  Still, we were often having to dig down real deep to win a large portion of those games because everyone was gunning for us, and having no depth made things even worse.  Yes, they were on a definite roll - until they lost to the Lakers on Christmas, when Bynum showed how impactnfluential he could be against us, and the absence of Posey, again, was very evident - especially against Kobe, defensively.  After we lost that game we seemed to go into a bit of a downward spiral, iirc, and then KG got hurt, and then he tried to come back against LA (again, iirc), and we lost to them in overtime and Garnett fouled out on a typical flop by Fisher when he tripped himself over KG's leg.  I think we had a chance to tie and Ray probably got fouled, but, shockingly (sarcasm), there was no call. 

Even when we were injury-free, the Cavs smacked us in Cleveland, and Lebron made Pierce look very old.  I think he outscored our captain 38 to 13-15, and was completely unstoppable.  There was a lot of concern among fans on here.  They were deeper with Mo Williams, we had lost Posey hadn't signed the Birdman (again, thanks Danny (sarcasm)!), and Tony Allen was our primary backup for Allen and Pierce, which sucked because TA can't shoot.  This is what happens when you try to do things on the cheap, and once we lost Posey, I honestly didn't think that we were going to be able to win another title, at least, not that year. 

I should also like to point out that, had they not rested on the final day of the regular season, that Cavs team would have matched the 86 Celtics home court of 40-1, but lost to the 76ers.  The only team to win at the Q that year - the Lakers, on the same trip where they beat us.  That's when I knew that they were going to win it all.  No one could win in Cleveland - not with all of the ridiculous calls, let alone the team.  The Cavs were built to beat us - not Orlando, which is why they lost.  It was just a bad matchup for them, and the Magic's 3 point shooting and their forcing of Lebron to do everything while simultaneously shutting down his teammates proved to be too much for them.  Again, this is all from memory, so feel free to show me clips or whatever to disprove my assertions here, but I just think that we should give that Cavs team their due.

Also, we're wildly off topic lol ;D.  In looking at Dirk's stats, I never knew that he actually rebounded, haha.  I'll add one more point for KG over Dirk - Garnett is such a complete basketball player that when Sam Cassell went down in the 2004 playoffs, KG played POINT GUARD against the Lakers, and performed very well.  Dirk can barely dribble, let alone hit step-back jumpers over Shaq or Bosh like Garnett has in his career.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2014, 01:41:03 AM »

Offline inverselock

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 437
  • Tommy Points: 44
KG.   Offence & defence.

Dirk will always be one of my favourites.   Plays Pf like no other.   His shot chart from last year is bad ass.

http://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/dirk_1152.jpg

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #56 on: November 13, 2014, 02:13:30 AM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3997
  • Tommy Points: 395
Larry Bird was better than both...by a lot.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2014, 05:03:50 AM »

fitzhickey

  • Guest
Larry Bird was better than both...by a lot.
Which isn't relevant to the topic.... At all lol.

Not disagreeing though

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #58 on: November 13, 2014, 07:01:16 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3836
  • Tommy Points: 232
What top defense did kg anchor before Tom thibodeau?
I'm seeing this as the main reason he's better when Dirk has hands down had the better career...it's easy for for us to say what an amazing defensive player he is when he came here and won defensive player of the year under thibs...don't recall him anchoring much in minny other then non playoff teams, and a gm who thought he quit

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2014, 07:38:41 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.


KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What? ???

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.
Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.


His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

Has everyone forgotten just how dominant the Cavs were that year?  I don't think that we could have beaten them without homecourt, and even then, it would have been a toss-up at best.  They embarrassed us twice in Cleveland, once without KG, but to suggest that it would have been a walk in the park for us to get to the finals is quite ridiculous, imo.  The Cavs wanted us, we no longer had Posey, and Leon went down (which may or may not have happened depending on if Garnett didn't get hurt).  Even if Rondo played the way he did when KG was hurt in the playoffs with a healthy Garnett (sorry, I know that I've written this rather poorly), I don't think that we would have gotten out of the east, and even if we'd had, the Lakers would've beaten us, because, again, WE HAD NO DEPTH.  Thanks Danny (sarcasm)!

  The Cavs finished a few games ahead of us because KG missed about 1/3 of the season with a knee injury. The Cavs were easily beaten by a Magic team that was close to even with the KG-less Celts. The Cavs wouldn't have posed that much of a problem in the playoffs.

That's because Orlando presented so many mathup problems for Cleveland, especially between Howard, who was so much faster, stronger, and quicker than Big Z, Varejao, or Joe Smith (Ben Wallace wasn't playing the role that he had early in the season due to a significant injury), and Rashard Lewis.  None of the said Cavs big guys were quick enough to stay with him off the dribble or recover in a pick and roll, and, to make matters worse (not that I feel sorry for Cleveland lol), none of those guys could attack him because the major contributors in Z and Floppy were never post players.  I really think that you guys should go back and look over that series.  Something tells me you're viewing such a time with much more of a positive outlook than was felt at the time lol.

  I don't think they'd have fared tremendously better against KG than they did against the Magic's bigs. We didn't have Posey, but Rondo was significantly better in the 2009 playoffs than the 2008 playoffs, Baby was better, and we had the all-important playoff/championship experience. You're selling the team short by a lot.