Dirk or KG

[Kane3387]

I voted for KG.

I will say it was tough tho. Before 2011 it was a no brainer that it was Garnett. Yet watching Dirk carry that 2011 Mavs team in his back to a title was amazing. Rarely in the history of the NBA have you seen one player do what Nowitzki did in that 2011 playoff run. I'm not even sure who the second best player was... Maybe Terry and he was passed his prime. As were marion and Kidd.

I guess you could say Chandler. Though up until that year he had basically accomplished nothing. Made the second round as a third wheel on that 2008 cp3 led NO team. But that was it. And he had Haywood getting a fair amount of his minutes.

[D.o.s.]

Against each other, for their careers:

Dirk: 22.9/8.2/2.9 19 wins
KG: 22.3/11.9/4.4 17 wins



http://bkref.com/tiny/R0gva

[mgent]

Shocker a Celtics blog would take a former Celtics hero.

It's dirk, it may have been closer at one point but really its not anymore...kg was great in his prime but he was also a loser, the highest paid player ever and only made it out of the first round once and had missed it all together 3 years in a row before coming to the Celtics , and honestly besides his first year here his tenure was overrated and he got to much of the credit for everything.
Dirk did more with less and continually got a pretty poor team to the playoffs in the same tough west... The teammate thing is a good joke because it's a fact kg has had better ones in recent years and it was partly his fault he never had good ones in minny, and dirks teammates are entirely overrated, both rosters he got to the finals were garbage and he never played with another star in their prime, he won a finals MVP and a title with close to the worst supporting cast to win a title of all time... Kg could never ever carry that team to a title or any team, in fact kgs team and better roster lost in 5 to the heat that year... Dirks legacy is elevated over kgs because of that year... Sorry

  Dirk's a better scorer. KG's a better... everything else. KG's play since the knee injury brings Dirk into the conversation, nothing much before that did.

When it comes to carrying a team full of average players though, being an unstoppable go-to scorer is arguably more important.

Take a supporting cast like Iverson's, and replace him with say, Kidd.  He's better at everything else, but that doesn't really mean anything if nobody else is helping him carry the load and doing things with his awesome passes/rebounds.

Give Dirk a super-defensive supporting cast like Iverson's and I'd argue that he wins a full hand of rings.  Put KG on that team instead and they probably can't score enough to go anywhere.

  Sure, you can come up with a type of team that would be more successful with KG than Dirk. I could come up with a type of team that would be more successful with KG than Dirk. That doesn't really add a lot to the discussion.

Like who?  It's clearly relevant to the discussion if you say KG, but can't back up why.  I already acknowledged in my previous post that it obviously depends on who specifically makes up the rest of the team, while also acknowledging there is in fact not much to discuss since they're so close and it depends on roster.

My point in response to your post is that KG's not the clear-cut winner like you were insinuating and now contradicting since you agreed that certain teams would be more successful with Dirk than KG.  My other point was that evidence shows players who win the title with not a lot of help are generally dominant scorers (Hakeem, Kareem, Dirk) while elite defenders with awesome all-around games like Duncan and Russell have had lots of help.

[D.o.s.]

It would be very interesting to use something like a list of NBA Finals MVPs and their accompanying supporting casts to extend this discussion, but you'd have to account for situations like, for example, the fact that KG didn't win the Finals MVP despite being the team's best player.

[Boris Badenov]

I'd pick Dirk but only because I think it's easier to build a championship team around him.

To me the most important element of any championship team is having a go-to scorer in the clutch, and Dirk is terrific on that dimension. You can build a championship team with him, some great defenders (a la Chandler), some heady vets (like Kidd) and a few other shooters (like Terry).

KG was by himself a better overall player, but he was not that go-to guy and needed one (Pierce) to win a ring.

And I think it's easier to add the Chandlers of the world than to find a guy like Pierce to match with KG.

So I go with Dirk....even though I like KG much better as an overall player. If that makes any sense.

[moiso]

I'd pick Dirk but only because I think it's easier to build a championship team around him.

To me the most important element of any championship team is having a go-to scorer in the clutch, and Dirk is terrific on that dimension. You can build a championship team with him, some great defenders (a la Chandler), some heady vets (like Kidd) and a few other shooters (like Terry).

KG was by himself a better overall player, but he was not that go-to guy and needed one (Pierce) to win a ring.

And I think it's easier to add the Chandlers of the world than to find a guy like Pierce to match with KG.

So I go with Dirk....even though I like KG much better as an overall player. If that makes any sense.

Nice post, and it makes perfect sense to me.  I agree and now I'd like to change my initial vote!

[bdm860]

KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.

KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What?

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

[pearljammer10]

I voted for KG.

I will say it was tough tho. Before 2011 it was a no brainer that it was Garnett. Yet watching Dirk carry that 2011 Mavs team in his back to a title was amazing. Rarely in the history of the NBA have you seen one player do what Nowitzki did in that 2011 playoff run. I'm not even sure who the second best player was... Maybe Terry and he was passed his prime. As were marion and Kidd.

I guess you could say Chandler. Though up until that year he had basically accomplished nothing. Made the second round as a third wheel on that 2008 cp3 led NO team. But that was it. And he had Haywood getting a fair amount of his minutes.

This might be the way I vote too. But it is darn hard. KG certainly was a stat machine when he was with the wolves and I guess I have to give him the edge for his defense, rebounding, and passing...

But man Nowitzki is just one of the all time scoring greats in the league. And like you said about his 2011 playoff run, that was absurd. You could also argue that Dirk'sMavs got screwed out of a second ring in 2006.

[D.o.s.]

KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.

KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What?

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.

[moiso]

KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.

KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What?

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.

Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.

[Donoghus]

KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.

KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What?

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.

Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.

His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

[LarBrd33]

I still believe KG was a comparable talent to Tim Duncan for about a decade.   While Duncan was winning championships, KG just didn't have a supporting cast.  It was basically proven in 2008 when post-prime KG got a couple sidekicks and won a title on his first attempt. 

But yeah, Dirk has been an elite offensive player for a while.  Dominant defensive bigs seem to be the most important factor to building a champion on this league, though.

If you surrounded Dirk and KG with comparable talent for 15 years, I think KG wins you more titles.  Plus, KG was pretty darn effective for 17 years... Dirk has been pretty darn effective for 15 going on 16...   DIrk's window might end up being bigger, but KG's dominant 15 year run helps him take home more gold.

[slamtheking]

would have to take KG.  great on both sides of the ball.  dirk is a great scorer and ok on D. 

the one thing I do like more about Dirk is if I need one of them to take final shot to win a game, it would  be Dirk and it wouldn't be close.  KG was able to win with the C's because PP (and Ray) was the player to take the shot for the win.

[MSceltic]

I picked Dirk for two reasons.
1) He's never played for the celtics so that adds intrigue to what he could have done for us.
2) Dirk's game is built for more longevity, his smooth shot and fadeaway have sustained throughout the years

[Beat LA]

Tonight Dirk passed Hakeem Olajuwon for 9th All time on the NBA scoring list. So I ask, again, one of the old age questions.

Dirk or KG?

You get to draft only one to start a franchise and you get their entire career. They will always be the most talented player on your team and focal point of the franchise. They will never have another teammate on their tier of player. They can have teammates obviously on lesser tiers and their teammates would be the same. Literally only difference is either KG or Dirk will be your franchise guy.

Both have been to countless all star games.
Both have been MVP once of the league.
Kg has been defensive player of the year while Dirk has been Finals MVP.

Who you taking?

Yeah, except that the year that Dirk won the MVP the Warriors not only beat the Mavericks, but swept them.  In the first round .  It's Garnett for me, hands down.  The only thing that Dirk does better is shoot 3 pointers, and he's way too much of a defensive liability, imo.  KG, on the other hand, is all about We, not Me, both in words and play.  The year he won the MVP, the Timberwolves made it to the WCF for the first time in team history, and they might have beaten the Lakers if Cassell wasn't hurt.  Sigh.  The guy completely changed the trajectory of the Celtics from day one, but I don't think that Dirk is that type of player.  Sorry.

Edit - Again, I forgot something.  KG has never blown a 2-0 series lead and missed one of two free throws with the chance to go up 3-0 over the Heat in the NBA Finals.  Yes, Wade was protected even more than Dirk (which is saying a lot lol), and I was happy for GP and Antoine, but Dirk choked, and not just in a game - in a series, where he lost the title on his home court.  Ouch.  He almost sounds like Lebron haha .

The Mavs didn't get swept in 07 from what I remember it the series was 4-2 in favor of the Warriors.

But nonetheless they lost.

No, you're right.  TP .  I looked it up afterwards and thought doh!   I must have been confusing that series with another one, but I do remember that it was so stunning because of the fact that that series was one of the few times in NBA history where a #1 seed lost to an 8th one.