Poll

Would you rather have the entire career of dirk or kg?

Dirk Nowitzki
8 (18.2%)
Kevin Garnett
36 (81.8%)

Total Members Voted: 43

Author Topic: Dirk or KG  (Read 18947 times)

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Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2014, 07:51:09 AM »

Offline BballTim

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What top defense did kg anchor before Tom thibodeau?
I'm seeing this as the main reason he's better when Dirk has hands down had the better career...it's easy for for us to say what an amazing defensive player he is when he came here and won defensive player of the year under thibs...don't recall him anchoring much in minny other then non playoff teams, and a gm who thought he quit

  His last year in Minny the team's defense was 15 ppp worse when he was on the bench. In case you're wondering, that's a lot. You won't find any realistic conversations about the best defensive pf ever that don't include him.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2014, 08:02:51 AM »

Offline Celtics17

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I have to agree with BballTim here. KG's defense is so good that he easily deserves the nod over Dirk. The rebounding edge goes to KG as well. There numbers for a career may be close but if you have to get one rebound to seal a series who of the two do you want going for it?

I will go a little further. I think KG is he best defensive big I have ever seen! Olajuwon was great but I am not sure he was as good of a team defender as KG is and he lacked the attitude.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #62 on: November 13, 2014, 09:00:54 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.


KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What? ???

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.
Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.


His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

Has everyone forgotten just how dominant the Cavs were that year?  I don't think that we could have beaten them without homecourt, and even then, it would have been a toss-up at best.  They embarrassed us twice in Cleveland, once without KG, but to suggest that it would have been a walk in the park for us to get to the finals is quite ridiculous, imo.  The Cavs wanted us, we no longer had Posey, and Leon went down (which may or may not have happened depending on if Garnett didn't get hurt).  Even if Rondo played the way he did when KG was hurt in the playoffs with a healthy Garnett (sorry, I know that I've written this rather poorly), I don't think that we would have gotten out of the east, and even if we'd had, the Lakers would've beaten us, because, again, WE HAD NO DEPTH.  Thanks Danny (sarcasm)!

  The Cavs finished a few games ahead of us because KG missed about 1/3 of the season with a knee injury. The Cavs were easily beaten by a Magic team that was close to even with the KG-less Celts. The Cavs wouldn't have posed that much of a problem in the playoffs.

That's because Orlando presented so many mathup problems for Cleveland, especially between Howard, who was so much faster, stronger, and quicker than Big Z, Varejao, or Joe Smith (Ben Wallace wasn't playing the role that he had early in the season due to a significant injury), and Rashard Lewis.  None of the said Cavs big guys were quick enough to stay with him off the dribble or recover in a pick and roll, and, to make matters worse (not that I feel sorry for Cleveland lol), none of those guys could attack him because the major contributors in Z and Floppy were never post players.  I really think that you guys should go back and look over that series.  Something tells me you're viewing such a time with much more of a positive outlook than was felt at the time lol.

  I don't think they'd have fared tremendously better against KG than they did against the Magic's bigs. We didn't have Posey, but Rondo was significantly better in the 2009 playoffs than the 2008 playoffs, Baby was better, and we had the all-important playoff/championship experience. You're selling the team short by a lot.

It wasn't about their offensive production, though.  It had everything to do with their complete and utter inability to guard Rashard Lewis and Howard.  They were practically nonexistent, offensively, and the 3 point shooting of the Magic gave guys like Dwight and Rafer Alston so much more space than we could have ever presented Cleveland with in terms of matchup problems.  It also doesn't help our cause that Ray Allen never developed a post up game aside from a lame fallaway that would have allowed us to take advantage of the small size of Cleveland's guards.  The bottom line, though, is that we simply didn't have enough that year.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2014, 09:11:05 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I'm with Tim, I don't think you're giving the 09 team enough credit, and the evidence is there during each postseason matchup we had with LeBron 1.0
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Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2014, 09:29:42 PM »

Offline BballTim

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KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.


KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What? ???

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.
Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.


His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

Has everyone forgotten just how dominant the Cavs were that year?  I don't think that we could have beaten them without homecourt, and even then, it would have been a toss-up at best.  They embarrassed us twice in Cleveland, once without KG, but to suggest that it would have been a walk in the park for us to get to the finals is quite ridiculous, imo.  The Cavs wanted us, we no longer had Posey, and Leon went down (which may or may not have happened depending on if Garnett didn't get hurt).  Even if Rondo played the way he did when KG was hurt in the playoffs with a healthy Garnett (sorry, I know that I've written this rather poorly), I don't think that we would have gotten out of the east, and even if we'd had, the Lakers would've beaten us, because, again, WE HAD NO DEPTH.  Thanks Danny (sarcasm)!

  The Cavs finished a few games ahead of us because KG missed about 1/3 of the season with a knee injury. The Cavs were easily beaten by a Magic team that was close to even with the KG-less Celts. The Cavs wouldn't have posed that much of a problem in the playoffs.

That's because Orlando presented so many mathup problems for Cleveland, especially between Howard, who was so much faster, stronger, and quicker than Big Z, Varejao, or Joe Smith (Ben Wallace wasn't playing the role that he had early in the season due to a significant injury), and Rashard Lewis.  None of the said Cavs big guys were quick enough to stay with him off the dribble or recover in a pick and roll, and, to make matters worse (not that I feel sorry for Cleveland lol), none of those guys could attack him because the major contributors in Z and Floppy were never post players.  I really think that you guys should go back and look over that series.  Something tells me you're viewing such a time with much more of a positive outlook than was felt at the time lol.

  I don't think they'd have fared tremendously better against KG than they did against the Magic's bigs. We didn't have Posey, but Rondo was significantly better in the 2009 playoffs than the 2008 playoffs, Baby was better, and we had the all-important playoff/championship experience. You're selling the team short by a lot.

It wasn't about their offensive production, though.  It had everything to do with their complete and utter inability to guard Rashard Lewis and Howard.  They were practically nonexistent, offensively, and the 3 point shooting of the Magic gave guys like Dwight and Rafer Alston so much more space than we could have ever presented Cleveland with in terms of matchup problems.  It also doesn't help our cause that Ray Allen never developed a post up game aside from a lame fallaway that would have allowed us to take advantage of the small size of Cleveland's guards.  The bottom line, though, is that we simply didn't have enough that year.

  We were the best 3 point shooting team in the league that year. Our backcourt of Ray and Rondo would have been a big advantage for us as opposed to a weakness for the Magic. KG would have been the best big in the series by quite a bit. You're really underrating the Celts. They were the class of the league before KG went down.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2014, 10:06:56 PM »

Offline puskas54_10

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KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.


KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What? ???

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.
Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.


His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

Has everyone forgotten just how dominant the Cavs were that year?  I don't think that we could have beaten them without homecourt, and even then, it would have been a toss-up at best.  They embarrassed us twice in Cleveland, once without KG, but to suggest that it would have been a walk in the park for us to get to the finals is quite ridiculous, imo.  The Cavs wanted us, we no longer had Posey, and Leon went down (which may or may not have happened depending on if Garnett didn't get hurt).  Even if Rondo played the way he did when KG was hurt in the playoffs with a healthy Garnett (sorry, I know that I've written this rather poorly), I don't think that we would have gotten out of the east, and even if we'd had, the Lakers would've beaten us, because, again, WE HAD NO DEPTH.  Thanks Danny (sarcasm)!

  The Cavs finished a few games ahead of us because KG missed about 1/3 of the season with a knee injury. The Cavs were easily beaten by a Magic team that was close to even with the KG-less Celts. The Cavs wouldn't have posed that much of a problem in the playoffs.

That's because Orlando presented so many mathup problems for Cleveland, especially between Howard, who was so much faster, stronger, and quicker than Big Z, Varejao, or Joe Smith (Ben Wallace wasn't playing the role that he had early in the season due to a significant injury), and Rashard Lewis.  None of the said Cavs big guys were quick enough to stay with him off the dribble or recover in a pick and roll, and, to make matters worse (not that I feel sorry for Cleveland lol), none of those guys could attack him because the major contributors in Z and Floppy were never post players.  I really think that you guys should go back and look over that series.  Something tells me you're viewing such a time with much more of a positive outlook than was felt at the time lol.

  I don't think they'd have fared tremendously better against KG than they did against the Magic's bigs. We didn't have Posey, but Rondo was significantly better in the 2009 playoffs than the 2008 playoffs, Baby was better, and we had the all-important playoff/championship experience. You're selling the team short by a lot.

It wasn't about their offensive production, though.  It had everything to do with their complete and utter inability to guard Rashard Lewis and Howard.  They were practically nonexistent, offensively, and the 3 point shooting of the Magic gave guys like Dwight and Rafer Alston so much more space than we could have ever presented Cleveland with in terms of matchup problems.  It also doesn't help our cause that Ray Allen never developed a post up game aside from a lame fallaway that would have allowed us to take advantage of the small size of Cleveland's guards.  The bottom line, though, is that we simply didn't have enough that year.

Why are you hate Ray Allen? It's sad that you clamor for Joe I don't give... Johnson. Just for your information Ray was more recognized than Pierce around the NBA before he was traded to the celtics, he sacrificed the most of the big 3. Just in case if you are a celtics homer nba fan.

BTW With healthy KG the path is clear to the NBA finals in 2009.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2014, 10:34:53 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.


KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What? ???

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.
Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.


His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

Has everyone forgotten just how dominant the Cavs were that year?  I don't think that we could have beaten them without homecourt, and even then, it would have been a toss-up at best.  They embarrassed us twice in Cleveland, once without KG, but to suggest that it would have been a walk in the park for us to get to the finals is quite ridiculous, imo.  The Cavs wanted us, we no longer had Posey, and Leon went down (which may or may not have happened depending on if Garnett didn't get hurt).  Even if Rondo played the way he did when KG was hurt in the playoffs with a healthy Garnett (sorry, I know that I've written this rather poorly), I don't think that we would have gotten out of the east, and even if we'd had, the Lakers would've beaten us, because, again, WE HAD NO DEPTH.  Thanks Danny (sarcasm)!

  The Cavs finished a few games ahead of us because KG missed about 1/3 of the season with a knee injury. The Cavs were easily beaten by a Magic team that was close to even with the KG-less Celts. The Cavs wouldn't have posed that much of a problem in the playoffs.

That's because Orlando presented so many mathup problems for Cleveland, especially between Howard, who was so much faster, stronger, and quicker than Big Z, Varejao, or Joe Smith (Ben Wallace wasn't playing the role that he had early in the season due to a significant injury), and Rashard Lewis.  None of the said Cavs big guys were quick enough to stay with him off the dribble or recover in a pick and roll, and, to make matters worse (not that I feel sorry for Cleveland lol), none of those guys could attack him because the major contributors in Z and Floppy were never post players.  I really think that you guys should go back and look over that series.  Something tells me you're viewing such a time with much more of a positive outlook than was felt at the time lol.

  I don't think they'd have fared tremendously better against KG than they did against the Magic's bigs. We didn't have Posey, but Rondo was significantly better in the 2009 playoffs than the 2008 playoffs, Baby was better, and we had the all-important playoff/championship experience. You're selling the team short by a lot.

It wasn't about their offensive production, though.  It had everything to do with their complete and utter inability to guard Rashard Lewis and Howard.  They were practically nonexistent, offensively, and the 3 point shooting of the Magic gave guys like Dwight and Rafer Alston so much more space than we could have ever presented Cleveland with in terms of matchup problems.  It also doesn't help our cause that Ray Allen never developed a post up game aside from a lame fallaway that would have allowed us to take advantage of the small size of Cleveland's guards.  The bottom line, though, is that we simply didn't have enough that year.

Why are you hate Ray Allen? It's sad that you clamor for Joe I don't give... Johnson. Just for your information Ray was more recognized than Pierce around the NBA before he was traded to the celtics, he sacrificed the most of the big 3. Just in case if you are a celtics homer nba fan.

BTW With healthy KG the path is clear to the NBA finals in 2009.

I'm well aware of how much Ray sacrificed, but who cares if he was known more, nationally, than Pierce?  Just because a guy gets a ton of endorsements and other stuff doesn't mean that he's better than a guy like Michael Redd, who had a post game lol, or Pierce, it just means that some companies wanted to affiliate themselves with him.  Guys like Pierce, Redd, and Joe Johnson are/were ignored and grossly underrated for much of their careers, but that doesn't mean that they were automatically inferior to Ray, Kobe, TMac, Vince, etc.

You don't think that Joe Johnson would have been better, on both ends, than Ray, with KG, Pierce, and Rondo?  I'm sure that we could argue about that til the cows come home lol, but purely in terms of size, having another guy as big and strong as Pierce definitely would have made a big difference defensively against guys like Lebron because Pierce was almost always reffed out of the games against James, especially in the postseason.  I guess that I just view Ray differently because of how he left, and so that will always tarnish his time here, unfortunately, for me.  Yes, Danny's an idiot for always trying to trade him, but Pierce and KG stepped in and prevented him from going to somewhere like Detroit, Sacramento, or Memphis, and I just think that, if you're not going to stay for Danny, and if you're not going to stay for Doc, you should at least stay for your teammates, never mind the fans, who adored you here for close to 20 years.

It's fine to disagree with me, but I just don't think that the path back to the Finals would have been nearly as easy as you guys are portraying it.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #67 on: November 13, 2014, 10:44:14 PM »

Offline celts10

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I think that 2008-09 team highlights just how good Doc was. Even with KG down and despite the awful play of Marbury and Moore, he somehow kept that group of tired legs together and believing

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #68 on: November 13, 2014, 10:46:50 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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I'm with Tim, I don't think you're giving the 09 team enough credit, and the evidence is there during each postseason matchup we had with LeBron 1.0

You're probably right, as I am a pessimist and a worry-wart lol, but by the same token, I don't think that you guys are giving Cleveland enough credit, either.  We barely won game 7 against them in 2008 with a much deeper team, and while we lost our Michael Cooper/Bruce Bowen type in Posey that offseason, the Cavs added more firepower in the form of Mo Williams, so we were already at a bit of a disadvantage, imo.  We weren't old that year, but our guys weren't exactly spring chickens, and when that's the case, you have to be deep to win it all, imo, and we just didn't have it. 

I will throw this out there for you guys to mull over, though.  Say that we had the best record in the conference, at least, by the end of that year.  That means that Cleveland would have likely played Orlando in the second round, so my question is, unlike the ecf that year when the Cavs had so much time off between the end of the series against the Hawks and game one against the Magic which may or may not have contributed to losing the first game (even though they had Orlando down by a ton in that one early on), who wins that series?  I honestly don't know the answer to that one.  I want to say the Magic, but you never know.  Plus, to get back to the ecf that year, we would have had to beat the Pistons in the first round, which I don't think would have been easy (although I doubt that it would have taken as much to beat them as it did to beat the Bulls), followed by the Hawks, who always gave us trouble - particularly Joe Johnson.  Yeah, I guess that I can see us beating them, too, but it would not have been a simple task, imo.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #69 on: November 13, 2014, 10:58:42 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I'm with Tim, I don't think you're giving the 09 team enough credit, and the evidence is there during each postseason matchup we had with LeBron 1.0

You're probably right, as I am a pessimist and a worry-wart lol, but by the same token, I don't think that you guys are giving Cleveland enough credit, either.  We barely won game 7 against them in 2008 with a much deeper team, and while we lost our Michael Cooper/Bruce Bowen type in Posey that offseason, the Cavs added more firepower in the form of Mo Williams, so we were already at a bit of a disadvantage, imo.  We weren't old that year, but our guys weren't exactly spring chickens, and when that's the case, you have to be deep to win it all, imo, and we just didn't have it. 


  We lost Posey but Rondo and Davis were significantly better than the year before. More importantly, though, the team had played together for another year and had the experience of the  title run the year before. The 2008 Cavs series didn't go 7 games because they were as good as us, just like the Hawks series didn't go 7 games because they were as good as us. The Celts had to learn to play together and win together in the playoffs. We played better against the Cavs than the Hawks, better against the Pistons than the Cavs and better against the Lakers than the Pistons. If we'd have played the Hawks after the Pistons instead of the Lakers we'd have crushed them, and if we'd played the Cavs in that 4th series they'd have been lucky to see a game 6.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2014, 10:59:38 PM »

Offline EatSleepBreatheGreen

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K.G.

Cause back in his prime he had a more diverse offensive game, and defensively it's not even close.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2014, 11:05:07 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I'm with Tim, I don't think you're giving the 09 team enough credit, and the evidence is there during each postseason matchup we had with LeBron 1.0

You're probably right, as I am a pessimist and a worry-wart lol, but by the same token, I don't think that you guys are giving Cleveland enough credit, either.  We barely won game 7 against them in 2008 with a much deeper team, and while we lost our Michael Cooper/Bruce Bowen type in Posey that offseason, the Cavs added more firepower in the form of Mo Williams, so we were already at a bit of a disadvantage, imo.  We weren't old that year, but our guys weren't exactly spring chickens, and when that's the case, you have to be deep to win it all, imo, and we just didn't have it. 

I will throw this out there for you guys to mull over, though.  Say that we had the best record in the conference, at least, by the end of that year.  That means that Cleveland would have likely played Orlando in the second round, so my question is, unlike the ecf that year when the Cavs had so much time off between the end of the series against the Hawks and game one against the Magic which may or may not have contributed to losing the first game (even though they had Orlando down by a ton in that one early on), who wins that series?  I honestly don't know the answer to that one.  I want to say the Magic, but you never know.  Plus, to get back to the ecf that year, we would have had to beat the Pistons in the first round, which I don't think would have been easy (although I doubt that it would have taken as much to beat them as it did to beat the Bulls), followed by the Hawks, who always gave us trouble - particularly Joe Johnson.  Yeah, I guess that I can see us beating them, too, but it would not have been a simple task, imo.

I still think the Magic Win that series. I'd really need a revamped playoff bracket to mull things over properly, though.
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Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2014, 11:51:29 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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I'm with Tim, I don't think you're giving the 09 team enough credit, and the evidence is there during each postseason matchup we had with LeBron 1.0

You're probably right, as I am a pessimist and a worry-wart lol, but by the same token, I don't think that you guys are giving Cleveland enough credit, either.  We barely won game 7 against them in 2008 with a much deeper team, and while we lost our Michael Cooper/Bruce Bowen type in Posey that offseason, the Cavs added more firepower in the form of Mo Williams, so we were already at a bit of a disadvantage, imo.  We weren't old that year, but our guys weren't exactly spring chickens, and when that's the case, you have to be deep to win it all, imo, and we just didn't have it. 


  We lost Posey but Rondo and Davis were significantly better than the year before. More importantly, though, the team had played together for another year and had the experience of the  title run the year before. The 2008 Cavs series didn't go 7 games because they were as good as us, just like the Hawks series didn't go 7 games because they were as good as us. The Celts had to learn to play together and win together in the playoffs. We played better against the Cavs than the Hawks, better against the Pistons than the Cavs and better against the Lakers than the Pistons. If we'd have played the Hawks after the Pistons instead of the Lakers we'd have crushed them, and if we'd played the Cavs in that 4th series they'd have been lucky to see a game 6.

I understand what you're saying, but wasn't it because of KG's injury that Davis played better and both his and Rondo's roles expanded, respectively?  I know that we had the experience of 2008, but you can't deny that significantly less depth and more minutes for our veterans during the year wouldn't have caught up to us at some point, or maybe you can lol. 

Okay, hypothetical now - let's say that Perk is traded for a pick or something after we win it all, but we draft Deandre Jordan as his replacement.  Without retaining Posey or signing Birdman (ugh), would that team have been better or worse than the one that we had that year?  Obviously, the togetherness would have taken a hit, but at the same time, Perk didn't do much in the playoff run to banner 17, mainly because Leon was playing so well, and PJ Brown was also there.  Btw, I don't know if we win game 7 against the Cavs in 2008 with PJ.  It wasn't just that shot that he made - he was the x factor in that particular contest, playing his best game of the postseason that day.  Didn't he score 10-11 points to go with 6-7 rebounds off the bench?  With Ray doing absolutely nothing that day, we needed all the help we could get.  Cleveland's defense was outstanding, but our offense SUCKED.  How can you not get Ray open looks when he was being guarded by Wally freakin' Szczerbiak, lol? ;D  I know that that's why you have a team defense, but still - that was pathetic.

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2014, 11:29:54 AM »

Offline Kane3387

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KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.


KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What? ???

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.
Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.


His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

Has everyone forgotten just how dominant the Cavs were that year?  I don't think that we could have beaten them without homecourt, and even then, it would have been a toss-up at best.  They embarrassed us twice in Cleveland, once without KG, but to suggest that it would have been a walk in the park for us to get to the finals is quite ridiculous, imo.  The Cavs wanted us, we no longer had Posey, and Leon went down (which may or may not have happened depending on if Garnett didn't get hurt).  Even if Rondo played the way he did when KG was hurt in the playoffs with a healthy Garnett (sorry, I know that I've written this rather poorly), I don't think that we would have gotten out of the east, and even if we'd had, the Lakers would've beaten us, because, again, WE HAD NO DEPTH.  Thanks Danny (sarcasm)!

  The Cavs finished a few games ahead of us because KG missed about 1/3 of the season with a knee injury. The Cavs were easily beaten by a Magic team that was close to even with the KG-less Celts. The Cavs wouldn't have posed that much of a problem in the playoffs.

That's because Orlando presented so many mathup problems for Cleveland, especially between Howard, who was so much faster, stronger, and quicker than Big Z, Varejao, or Joe Smith (Ben Wallace wasn't playing the role that he had early in the season due to a significant injury), and Rashard Lewis.  None of the said Cavs big guys were quick enough to stay with him off the dribble or recover in a pick and roll, and, to make matters worse (not that I feel sorry for Cleveland lol), none of those guys could attack him because the major contributors in Z and Floppy were never post players.  I really think that you guys should go back and look over that series.  Something tells me you're viewing such a time with much more of a positive outlook than was felt at the time lol.

  I don't think they'd have fared tremendously better against KG than they did against the Magic's bigs. We didn't have Posey, but Rondo was significantly better in the 2009 playoffs than the 2008 playoffs, Baby was better, and we had the all-important playoff/championship experience. You're selling the team short by a lot.

It wasn't about their offensive production, though.  It had everything to do with their complete and utter inability to guard Rashard Lewis and Howard.  They were practically nonexistent, offensively, and the 3 point shooting of the Magic gave guys like Dwight and Rafer Alston so much more space than we could have ever presented Cleveland with in terms of matchup problems.  It also doesn't help our cause that Ray Allen never developed a post up game aside from a lame fallaway that would have allowed us to take advantage of the small size of Cleveland's guards.  The bottom line, though, is that we simply didn't have enough that year.

We are off topic. Anyway I disagree and here is why.

Regular season cleveland was always WAY better then playoff version Cleveland. From a non Lebron standpoint.

Also Lebron has ALWAYS been better as an underdog then the favorite. In 2007 against Detroit - underdog. 2008 Boston - underdog. 2012 okc after game 1 - underdog. Game 6 2012 Boston - underdog. From 2009-2011 he was the favorite and always disappointed.

In 2009 even with a healthy KG Lebrons cavs would've been the favorite and his teammates would've choked in that ECF just as they did in 2009 vs Orlando and just as they did in 2010 semifinal vs us.


KG: "Dude.... What is up with yo shorts?!"

CBD_2016 Cavs Remaining Picks - 14.14

Re: Dirk or KG
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2014, 11:48:15 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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KG's career has been cut short by injuries.

Without injuries probably, maybe, perhaps KG.

With injuries Dirk.


KG hasn't aged as well and didn't ever have the offensive repertoire that he could have. That knee injury took away his 2nd and 3rd rings and left him hobbled and 1/2 the player he was before.

Cut short by injuries?  Hasn't aged well?  What? ???

He's in his 20th season, was an All-Star in his 18th season, and All-NBA Defense in his 17th season, and will probably finish this season 3rd all time in minutes and 5th or 6th all time in games played.

KG has actually aged pretty well and his career was not cut short by injuries.  In fact he's had one of the longest careers of anybody ever.

(Not that Dirk also hasn't had a nice long career, but let's see how he's performing in his 19th and 20th seasons).

It's probably safe to say that KG's tenure with the Celtics was certainly undercut by injuries.
Everyone's career ends from and is affected by injuries, usually way before KG's age.  KG has had a remarkably healthy career.


His '08-09 injury probably cost the Celtics a very legit chance at a 3 Peat.   With a healthy KG, that '09 team is cruising to the Finals and with a health KG instead of a limping KG, he's not getting manhandled by Gasol in the '10 Finals.

Has everyone forgotten just how dominant the Cavs were that year?  I don't think that we could have beaten them without homecourt, and even then, it would have been a toss-up at best.  They embarrassed us twice in Cleveland, once without KG, but to suggest that it would have been a walk in the park for us to get to the finals is quite ridiculous, imo.  The Cavs wanted us, we no longer had Posey, and Leon went down (which may or may not have happened depending on if Garnett didn't get hurt).  Even if Rondo played the way he did when KG was hurt in the playoffs with a healthy Garnett (sorry, I know that I've written this rather poorly), I don't think that we would have gotten out of the east, and even if we'd had, the Lakers would've beaten us, because, again, WE HAD NO DEPTH.  Thanks Danny (sarcasm)!

  The Cavs finished a few games ahead of us because KG missed about 1/3 of the season with a knee injury. The Cavs were easily beaten by a Magic team that was close to even with the KG-less Celts. The Cavs wouldn't have posed that much of a problem in the playoffs.

That's because Orlando presented so many mathup problems for Cleveland, especially between Howard, who was so much faster, stronger, and quicker than Big Z, Varejao, or Joe Smith (Ben Wallace wasn't playing the role that he had early in the season due to a significant injury), and Rashard Lewis.  None of the said Cavs big guys were quick enough to stay with him off the dribble or recover in a pick and roll, and, to make matters worse (not that I feel sorry for Cleveland lol), none of those guys could attack him because the major contributors in Z and Floppy were never post players.  I really think that you guys should go back and look over that series.  Something tells me you're viewing such a time with much more of a positive outlook than was felt at the time lol.

  I don't think they'd have fared tremendously better against KG than they did against the Magic's bigs. We didn't have Posey, but Rondo was significantly better in the 2009 playoffs than the 2008 playoffs, Baby was better, and we had the all-important playoff/championship experience. You're selling the team short by a lot.

It wasn't about their offensive production, though.  It had everything to do with their complete and utter inability to guard Rashard Lewis and Howard.  They were practically nonexistent, offensively, and the 3 point shooting of the Magic gave guys like Dwight and Rafer Alston so much more space than we could have ever presented Cleveland with in terms of matchup problems.  It also doesn't help our cause that Ray Allen never developed a post up game aside from a lame fallaway that would have allowed us to take advantage of the small size of Cleveland's guards.  The bottom line, though, is that we simply didn't have enough that year.

We are off topic. Anyway I disagree and here is why.

Regular season cleveland was always WAY better then playoff version Cleveland. From a non Lebron standpoint.

Also Lebron has ALWAYS been better as an underdog then the favorite. In 2007 against Detroit - underdog. 2008 Boston - underdog. 2012 okc after game 1 - underdog. Game 6 2012 Boston - underdog. From 2009-2011 he was the favorite and always disappointed.

In 2009 even with a healthy KG Lebrons cavs would've been the favorite and his teammates would've choked in that ECF just as they did in 2009 vs Orlando and just as they did in 2010 semifinal vs us.

In 2009 that Cavs team swept the Pistons and Hawks and were firing on all cylinders by the time they reached the ECF, but I don't think it's fair to say that his teammates choked in those series.  Joe Smith killed us off the bench, Pavlovic was his usual gritty self and a pain in the butt against us lol, Delonte is clutch and hurt us in both postseason meetings, and Mo Williams wasn't that bad.  Besides, you should never underestimate the enemy.  We really are off topic now, aren't we lol?