Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries

[pearljammer10]

Another solid move by Washington. Not sure what the return would be, has to be a TPE, no?

[Mr October]

So since I am not the most well-versed in the trade-rules-cap-free-agent stuff.  Why wouldn't Wash just sign Hump directly?  He was a free agent right?  What is the benefit to them?

They should be out of cap space by now. Pierce was the MLE signing i believe.

[BudweiserCeltic]

13.5 Million for 3 years---totally reasonable---we should have just kept him---I guess Wash has a TPE for us though....those things can come in handy.

We should be getting a pick or picks in return if this is the case.

And another TPE I think.

Pretty sure it doesn't work quite like that. But what do I know.

The Wizards have a trade exception of their own large enough to absorb Humphries new contract, so the Celtics would wind up with a trade exception of their own equal to the salary Humprhies would make in the first year, of about $4.5 million.  Because you can't trade a player for nothing, the Celtics will also need to receive either at least one draft pick, or at least $75,000 in cash.  This draft pick can be heavily protected, but it's likely to be a single second rounder.

Yeah, I pretty much understand the CBA completely but how trade exceptions are created are just foreign to me for some reason... can't compute. But I understand in this case now.

[Jailan34]

A trade exception would be so small that it might not be enough. You can't do much with a 3-4 million dollar solo trade exception.

I think they might get a moderately protected 2nd round pick.

Doubt it, there's no reason for the Celtics to do this for such a small return. But we'll see, maybe they're just being nice for Humphries' sake.

Teams make small goodwill trades if it wasn't going to cost them anything anyway every year. I guess the hope is the favor will be returned. And favors to agents/players are good to show how helpful a trade partner you can be.

Kind of like what Ainge did helping Cleveland clear cap space in a hurry.

[Lucky17]

13.5 Million for 3 years---totally reasonable---we should have just kept him---I guess Wash has a TPE for us though....those things can come in handy.

We should be getting a pick or picks in return if this is the case.

And another TPE I think.

Pretty sure it doesn't work quite like that. But what do I know.

The Wizards have a trade exception of their own large enough to absorb Humphries new contract, so the Celtics would wind up with a trade exception of their own equal to the salary Humprhies would make in the first year, of about $4.5 million.  Because you can't trade a player for nothing, the Celtics will also need to receive either at least one draft pick, or at least $75,000 in cash.  This draft pick can be heavily protected, but it's likely to be a single second rounder.

Yep.

And people need to pump the brakes on expecting a 1st rounder coming back. It's likely to be something nominal in value.

A TPE of $4.5 million in and of itself is a nice return.

[blink]

So since I am not the most well-versed in the trade-rules-cap-free-agent stuff.  Why wouldn't Wash just sign Hump directly?  He was a free agent right?  What is the benefit to them?

They should be out of cap space by now. Pierce was the MLE signing i believe.

Ok thanks, so the TPE is used by a team who is so close to the cap that they can't absorb the incoming player's salary. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

A trade exception would be so small that it might not be enough. You can't do much with a 3-4 million dollar solo trade exception.

I think they might get a moderately protected 2nd round pick.

Doubt it, there's no reason for the Celtics to do this for such a small return. But we'll see, maybe they're just being nice for Humphries' sake.

Teams make small goodwill trades if it wasn't going to cost them anything anyway every year. I guess the hope is the favor will be returned. And favors to agents/players are good to show how helpful a trade partner you can be.

Kind of like what Ainge did helping Cleveland clear cap space in a hurry.

Not quite the same, Ainge had an asset that was expiring and got great value out of it.

In this case it would be purely out of goodwill to help an ex-Celtic and good-faith with an opposing team which you really shouldn't be helping out in any shape or fashion unless you're getting something in return.

The proposed TPE creation for us is not bad to have though, so that might be enough. Not convinced it is really, but we'll see.

[blink]

A trade exception would be so small that it might not be enough. You can't do much with a 3-4 million dollar solo trade exception.

I think they might get a moderately protected 2nd round pick.

Doubt it, there's no reason for the Celtics to do this for such a small return. But we'll see, maybe they're just being nice for Humphries' sake.

Teams make small goodwill trades if it wasn't going to cost them anything anyway every year. I guess the hope is the favor will be returned. And favors to agents/players are good to show how helpful a trade partner you can be.

Kind of like what Ainge did helping Cleveland clear cap space in a hurry.

Not quite the same, Ainge had an asset that was expiring and got great value out of it.

In this case it would be purely out of goodwill to help an ex-Celtic and good-faith with an opposing team which you really shouldn't be helping out in any shape or fashion unless you're getting something in return.

The proposed TPE creation for us is not bad to have though, so that might be enough. Not convinced it is really, but we'll see.

TP for all the explanation.  Thanks.

So the TPE that we will receive, will it only be able to be used next summer, like the one from the Nets last summer could only be used this summer?  Or was there some other factor with the Nets trade?

[Jailan34]

A trade exception would be so small that it might not be enough. You can't do much with a 3-4 million dollar solo trade exception.

I think they might get a moderately protected 2nd round pick.

Doubt it, there's no reason for the Celtics to do this for such a small return. But we'll see, maybe they're just being nice for Humphries' sake.

Teams make small goodwill trades if it wasn't going to cost them anything anyway every year. I guess the hope is the favor will be returned. And favors to agents/players are good to show how helpful a trade partner you can be.

Kind of like what Ainge did helping Cleveland clear cap space in a hurry.

Not quite the same, Ainge had an asset that was expiring and got great value out of it.

In this case it would be purely out of goodwill to help an ex-Celtic and good-faith with an opposing team which you really shouldn't be helping out in any shape or fashion unless you're getting something in return.

The proposed TPE creation for us is not bad to have though, so that might be enough. Not convinced it is really, but we'll see.

Right it was "kind of" the same because we got such great value in return, however Cleveland clearly made out the best because Ainge helping them clear cap space lead to them signing the best player in the NBA.

[Mr October]

A thought on a whim: could the celtics be looking to get a guy like Kevin Seraphin back in a double sign and trade?

I dont know anything about this player or what his market value is.

[SparzWizard]

Now if they can somehow unload Gerald Wallace's contract....I'll consider that as big fireworks. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

So since I am not the most well-versed in the trade-rules-cap-free-agent stuff.  Why wouldn't Wash just sign Hump directly?  He was a free agent right?  What is the benefit to them?

They should be out of cap space by now. Pierce was the MLE signing i believe.

If they're out of cap space, they simply can't sign him (since you don't get exceptions, except room exception) and that would mean that Pierce was signed that way.

If they've been playing above the cap, then yeah Pierce was signed using the MLE.

No matter how you slice it, Humphries couldn't be signed straight up.

[Moranis]

So since I am not the most well-versed in the trade-rules-cap-free-agent stuff.  Why wouldn't Wash just sign Hump directly?  He was a free agent right?  What is the benefit to them?

They should be out of cap space by now. Pierce was the MLE signing i believe.

Ok thanks, so the TPE is used by a team who is so close to the cap that they can't absorb the incoming player's salary.

A trade player exception (TPE) is created when a team trades out more salary than it takes back in a trade.  So for example, TEAM A trades 3 players worth 10 million to TEAM B.  TEAM B trades 4 players worth 7 million to TEAM A.  TEAM A has a TPE of 3 million.  That 3 million TPE will expire one year from the date of the trade and can't be combined with players or other TPE's, but you don't have to use all of it.  So TEAM A at any time during that year can acquire a player worth 2 million without trading anything else, which still leaves 1 million on the TPE (which still expires at the same time).  TEAM A in a later trade can acquire another player worth 1 million into the rest of the TPE.  TPE's do not have to be used and often expire.

[footey]

Great signing for the Wiz.  They are going to be a team to reckon with in the East. Kudos to them.

[saltlover]

So since I am not the most well-versed in the trade-rules-cap-free-agent stuff.  Why wouldn't Wash just sign Hump directly?  He was a free agent right?  What is the benefit to them?

They should be out of cap space by now. Pierce was the MLE signing i believe.

Ok thanks, so the TPE is used by a team who is so close to the cap that they can't absorb the incoming player's salary.

Essentially.  To sign a player, you either need to have the cap room to fit his salary or an exception to fit his salary.  The Wizards were over the cap, and they used the MLE to sign Pierce.  They have the Bi-Annual Exception, but that was too small for Humphries contract ($2 million a year for two years.)  So they need a little help.  They did, however, get a reported $8.5 million trade exception in the Trevor Ariza to Houston sign-and-trade, so they can use a portion of that to sign Humphries with Boston's help in a sign-and-trade.  Boston would get an exception equal to Humphries' salary, expiring one year from the day of the trade (presumably today, but maybe tomorrow or the next depending on Humphries scheduling a physical).  They also will have to get at least a protected second-rounder, although standard compensation is at least 1 second rounder that's unprotected.