Author Topic: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries  (Read 23782 times)

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Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #105 on: July 15, 2014, 04:32:31 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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If we were to get Turner for $4-4.5 million, it would make more sense to use the MLE.  Mind you, I'm not pro-Turner, but why create a trade when you don't need to?
Because with SnT you're making no stipulations about being over or under the luxury tax apron.
If your receive a player under a sign and trade I believe you commit to staying under the apron as well.
I'm just brutal today with CBA trivia :)
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Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #106 on: July 15, 2014, 04:35:16 PM »

Offline saltlover

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went to the store and left my cell back at home, and come back to another move. The Wiz are getting a grrrrrreat deal. I wish we could get more than the tpe for Hump

Fear not.  I'm sure we'll get a 2nd rounder out of the deal.  Which is fine.

Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #107 on: July 15, 2014, 04:36:58 PM »

Offline JWC95

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Trade for Pierce. (Don't wake me up from this dream.)
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Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #108 on: July 15, 2014, 04:39:58 PM »

Offline j804

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went to the store and left my cell back at home, and come back to another move. The Wiz are getting a grrrrrreat deal. I wish we could get more than the tpe for Hump

Fear not.  I'm sure we'll get a 2nd rounder out of the deal.  Which is fine.
yea 12mil at 3yrs is cheap they will love him
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Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #109 on: July 15, 2014, 04:43:36 PM »

Offline Nerf DPOY

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went to the store and left my cell back at home, and come back to another move. The Wiz are getting a grrrrrreat deal. I wish we could get more than the tpe for Hump

Fear not.  I'm sure we'll get a 2nd rounder out of the deal.  Which is fine.

This thread seems to be going in circles, but are 4.3 million size trade exceptions commonly useful? It just doesn't strike me as much cap relief to offer a team in need of moving salary over the course of this coming year...

Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #110 on: July 15, 2014, 04:45:37 PM »

Offline saltlover

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went to the store and left my cell back at home, and come back to another move. The Wiz are getting a grrrrrreat deal. I wish we could get more than the tpe for Hump

Fear not.  I'm sure we'll get a 2nd rounder out of the deal.  Which is fine.

This thread seems to be going in circles, but are 4.3 million size trade exceptions commonly useful? It just doesn't strike me as much cap relief to offer a team in need of moving salary over the course of this coming year...

They're less useful than $10 million ones, for sure, but the Clippers, for example, have been rumored to want to dump Jared Dudley, who conveniently makes $4.25 million. 

EDIT:  Additionally, such a TPE would last until nexr July 15ish, so it could also be useful to acquire a third-tier free agent next summer.

Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #111 on: July 15, 2014, 04:47:47 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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went to the store and left my cell back at home, and come back to another move. The Wiz are getting a grrrrrreat deal. I wish we could get more than the tpe for Hump

Fear not.  I'm sure we'll get a 2nd rounder out of the deal.  Which is fine.

This thread seems to be going in circles, but are 4.3 million size trade exceptions commonly useful? It just doesn't strike me as much cap relief to offer a team in need of moving salary over the course of this coming year...

Discounting any TPEs created since this list was last updated, it would be second largest active TPE in the league.

http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/exceptions.jsp
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Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #112 on: July 15, 2014, 04:50:01 PM »

Offline Nerf DPOY

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went to the store and left my cell back at home, and come back to another move. The Wiz are getting a grrrrrreat deal. I wish we could get more than the tpe for Hump

Fear not.  I'm sure we'll get a 2nd rounder out of the deal.  Which is fine.

This thread seems to be going in circles, but are 4.3 million size trade exceptions commonly useful? It just doesn't strike me as much cap relief to offer a team in need of moving salary over the course of this coming year...

They're less useful than $10 million ones, for sure, but the Clippers, for example, have been rumored to want to dump Jared Dudley, who conveniently makes $4.25 million.

Yeah, I guess we can't exactly demand a king's ransom for a guy we didn't want to sign anyways...

Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #113 on: July 15, 2014, 05:15:09 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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So since I am not the most well-versed in the trade-rules-cap-free-agent stuff.  Why wouldn't Wash just sign Hump directly?  He was a free agent right?  What is the benefit to them?

They should be out of cap space by now. Pierce was the MLE signing i believe.

Ok thanks, so the TPE is used by a team who is so close to the cap that they can't absorb the incoming player's salary.
A trade player exception (TPE) is created when a team trades out more salary than it takes back in a trade.  So for example, TEAM A trades 3 players worth 10 million to TEAM B.  TEAM B trades 4 players worth 7 million to TEAM A.  TEAM A has a TPE of 3 million.  That 3 million TPE will expire one year from the date of the trade and can't be combined with players or other TPE's, but you don't have to use all of it.  So TEAM A at any time during that year can acquire a player worth 2 million without trading anything else, which still leaves 1 million on the TPE (which still expires at the same time).  TEAM A in a later trade can acquire another player worth 1 million into the rest of the TPE.  TPE's do not have to be used and often expire.

thanks TP for you!

Please explain:  Based on the example you gave -- Team A sends 10M to Team B who returns 7M creating a 3M TPE -- how is it that salary mismatches like this are acceptable?  I would think there has to be some additional criterion to create a TPE, otherwise any high salary could be traded for any low salary.   Does it have to be that a team involved is under the cap? 
I don't understand.

Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #114 on: July 15, 2014, 05:36:20 PM »

Offline saltlover

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So since I am not the most well-versed in the trade-rules-cap-free-agent stuff.  Why wouldn't Wash just sign Hump directly?  He was a free agent right?  What is the benefit to them?

They should be out of cap space by now. Pierce was the MLE signing i believe.

Ok thanks, so the TPE is used by a team who is so close to the cap that they can't absorb the incoming player's salary.
A trade player exception (TPE) is created when a team trades out more salary than it takes back in a trade.  So for example, TEAM A trades 3 players worth 10 million to TEAM B.  TEAM B trades 4 players worth 7 million to TEAM A.  TEAM A has a TPE of 3 million.  That 3 million TPE will expire one year from the date of the trade and can't be combined with players or other TPE's, but you don't have to use all of it.  So TEAM A at any time during that year can acquire a player worth 2 million without trading anything else, which still leaves 1 million on the TPE (which still expires at the same time).  TEAM A in a later trade can acquire another player worth 1 million into the rest of the TPE.  TPE's do not have to be used and often expire.

thanks TP for you!

Please explain:  Based on the example you gave -- Team A sends 10M to Team B who returns 7M creating a 3M TPE -- how is it that salary mismatches like this are acceptable?  I would think there has to be some additional criterion to create a TPE, otherwise any high salary could be traded for any low salary.   Does it have to be that a team involved is under the cap? 
I don't understand.

Unfortunately the original example was a little off.  TPE's are only given when a single player is traded for another single player or no player.

That said, in the hypothetical example, it would essentially work like this:

Per the CBA, if you are trading out a player (or players) and are above the salary cap, you can take back the following salary, as long as the incoming salary does not leave you above the luxury tax line:

If you're sending out less than $9.8 million in salary, you can take back up to 150% of the outgoing salary.

If you're sending out between $9.8 million and $19.6 million, you can take back up to $5 million more than you send out.

If you're sending out more than $19.6 million, you can take back 125% + $100,000 of what you send out.

If you are already above the tax line, or the trade would place you above the tax line, you can take back 125% + $100000 of what you send out.

(Note: These rules can be found here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q84

Accordingly, if one team takes back more than it sends out, per the rules above, another team must be sending less.  Again, if the teams are sending out only a single player each***, the other team would be granted an exception to make up the difference.  They can then use this exception for up to 1 year to acquire a player or players equal to that exception +$100,000.

So, in the example given, if Team B will remain beneath the luxury tax after the trade, and they send out a player who's salary is $7 million, they can receive up to 150%, or $10.5 million, in return.  Since team A sends out $10 million, team A receives an exception of $3 million, to make up the difference in salaries.  Team B, even though it could have received up to $10.5 million back, receives no exception to make up the difference on their end.


*** - There are ways to get around this, but that's not an introductory course

Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #115 on: July 15, 2014, 05:37:48 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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So since I am not the most well-versed in the trade-rules-cap-free-agent stuff.  Why wouldn't Wash just sign Hump directly?  He was a free agent right?  What is the benefit to them?

They should be out of cap space by now. Pierce was the MLE signing i believe.

Ok thanks, so the TPE is used by a team who is so close to the cap that they can't absorb the incoming player's salary.
A trade player exception (TPE) is created when a team trades out more salary than it takes back in a trade.  So for example, TEAM A trades 3 players worth 10 million to TEAM B.  TEAM B trades 4 players worth 7 million to TEAM A.  TEAM A has a TPE of 3 million.  That 3 million TPE will expire one year from the date of the trade and can't be combined with players or other TPE's, but you don't have to use all of it.  So TEAM A at any time during that year can acquire a player worth 2 million without trading anything else, which still leaves 1 million on the TPE (which still expires at the same time).  TEAM A in a later trade can acquire another player worth 1 million into the rest of the TPE.  TPE's do not have to be used and often expire.

thanks TP for you!

Please explain:  Based on the example you gave -- Team A sends 10M to Team B who returns 7M creating a 3M TPE -- how is it that salary mismatches like this are acceptable?  I would think there has to be some additional criterion to create a TPE, otherwise any high salary could be traded for any low salary.   Does it have to be that a team involved is under the cap? 
I don't understand.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q84
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Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #116 on: July 15, 2014, 05:39:30 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Please explain:  Based on the example you gave -- Team A sends 10M to Team B who returns 7M creating a 3M TPE -- how is it that salary mismatches like this are acceptable?  I would think there has to be some additional criterion to create a TPE, otherwise any high salary could be traded for any low salary.   Does it have to be that a team involved is under the cap? 
I don't understand.
The team who's absorbing the extra salary must be under the cap (if it's a player-for-player trade), or to have an existing TPE to absorb the salary with (if it's a player-for-cash/pick trade).
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #117 on: July 15, 2014, 05:57:00 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Trade for Pierce. (Don't wake me up from this dream.)

Haha, TP.  Throw in Jeff Green, too ;D  I'm just thrilled that 'Hump' ::) won't be taking minutes from our young guys next season.

Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #118 on: July 15, 2014, 06:02:34 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Done deal.

Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA  ·  6m
Washington, Boston have completed sign-and-trade for Kris Humphries, source says. Boston gets a trade exception and protected 2nd round pick
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C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Source: C's and Wiz working on sign and trade involving Kris Humphries
« Reply #119 on: July 15, 2014, 06:02:38 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA  ·  1m
Washington, Boston have completed sign-and-trade for Kris Humphries, source says. Boston gets a trade exception and protected 2nd round pick

Protected.  Hopefully no more than Top 40 protected, since they should make the playoffs easily.