Author Topic: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.  (Read 132637 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #315 on: June 17, 2013, 03:36:52 PM »

Offline Tgro

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 867
  • Tommy Points: 143
  • It's all about the TEAM!
Got a bad feeling that Danny Ainge got worked over here.

I had that feeling this morning. I'm more upset about Jordan than anything else

The Celtics seem too eager to get this done. Gave away their leverage by looking too willing to do it.
The Celtics aren't quitters. Why should you be? - blind homer

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #316 on: June 17, 2013, 03:38:16 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
We are used to DA working over other GMs. I hope the tables haven't turned here.....
If KG/Doc/PP all are pushing this its hard for him to get more.

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #317 on: June 17, 2013, 03:38:33 PM »

Offline kgainez

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1126
  • Tommy Points: 54
Got a bad feeling that Danny Ainge got worked over here.


yep

i think we've settled

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #318 on: June 17, 2013, 03:39:12 PM »

Offline snively

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6013
  • Tommy Points: 503
Wish there was an extra pick in there.
2025 Draft: Chicago Bulls

PG: Chauncey Billups/Deron Williams
SG: Kobe Bryant/Eric Gordon
SF: Jimmy Butler/Danny Granger/Danilo Gallinari
PF: Al Horford/Zion Williamson
C: Yao Ming/Pau Gasol/Tyson Chandler

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #319 on: June 17, 2013, 03:39:35 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18460
  • Tommy Points: 2791
  • bammokja
Quote
Chris Mannix: Boston isn't exactly giddy about DeAndre Jordan, either. He's an overpaid center who can't score or make free throws. Twitter @ChrisMannixSI

And people thought Danny was asking for a "kings ransom" by including Bledsoe?

i am NOT a fan of jordan for the many reasons cited in this thread. however, i dont think the posters who bemoan him as being overpaid are putting his salary in the proper context. nor should his salary be taken as a slight towards him. hey, it was the owner who offered the salary and he was smart to take it.

specifically on jordan's worth as a center in today's nba, jordan does not have great skills, i agree 100% there.  but lets use some comparisons to look at his salary.

- jordan is due about $22 million over the next two years. to collect this kingly sum, jordan provided the clips with 8.8 pts, 7.2 rebounds, and 1.4 blocks in 24.5 minutes a night.

how does that stack up with his "peers"?

- bierdens - signed in 2008 for 6/$54m after averaging (~$9m/year) about 11 pts 10 rbs while playing 27 minutes a game.  he had one good year then was, and is, awful. how awful? last season he averaged 9 minutes, 0.5 pts (yes, less than 1 point a game), 2.9 rbs, and 1.1 blocks. THIS IS WHAT A REALLY BAD CONTRACT LOOKS LIKE.

- javale mcgee - signed in 2012 for 4 years at $44m (~$11/year) after averaging 11 pts and 8 rbs while playing 25 minutes a game.  last year he averaged 9 pts, 5 rbs, and he played about 18 minutes. not all that different from jordan, but jordan seems a tad better for now.

- humphries - in 2011-12 he averaged 14 pts and 11 rbs in 35 minutes, and the Nets gave him 2 years to collect $24 million for these services. better than jordan so far.

- okafor - made $14M last year and averaged a shade under 10 pts and 9 rbs in 26 minutes. and remember, he was the #2 pick in the 2004 draft. a shade better than jordan, but jordan is younger.

jordan's contract is not a good one.  but per 36 he is averaging 13 pts and 11 rbs, which puts him squarely in the group of stiffs above.  that is, the contract is stupid, but it is largely in line with other such players since many GM give out stupid contracts to people who about 7 foot tall.

so, jordan may very well never development into someone who is actually a good nba player, but his contact is digestible and movable. after all, GMs are suckers for 7 footers who can jump.

then again, who knows? with rondo and a good coach, maybe jordan develops into a rebounding and shot blocking machine.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #320 on: June 17, 2013, 03:40:05 PM »

Offline blink

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19706
  • Tommy Points: 1625
Got a bad feeling that Danny Ainge got worked over here.

I had that feeling this morning. I'm more upset about Jordan than anything else

The Celtics seem too eager to get this done. Gave away their leverage by looking too willing to do it.

I agree.  If the deal is DJ & Butler +1 1st, I think we blinked too soon.  Just turns into a net nothing.  KG would have retired, we would have bought out PP anyway.  Now we are stuck with a player that we might not really want DJ, and an expiring...bleh.

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #321 on: June 17, 2013, 03:40:29 PM »

Offline Snakehead

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6846
  • Tommy Points: 448
Did you understand what I meant?

You can't play him in a lot of key situations, so he won't be a factor in any of his strengths (rebounding and shot blocking) because that's such an issue.  So yes his rebounding rate is good but within his overall game there are issues that will detract from allowing him to rebound on our team.

I know he can rebound and block shots.  He is just very flawed and that impacts his ability to produce on his strenghs.  Tough to play this guy when you can run a Hack-a scheme at him.
I get what you're saying, and what you're saying is irrelevant to my statement. Which is thus: Jordan is a good rebounder. Its one of his strengths

You're saying, he's so bad at other things he can't stay on the court to rebound.

This is also true. I take issue with the idea that because his minutes are limited that he's actually a bad rebounder. When Kevin Love was played fewer minutes by Kurt Rambis was he any less of a rebound machine?

No, definitely agree with you, you're right about that.

Jordan is definitely a good re bounder, shot blocker, and finisher when he is given the easy basket.

The issue is basically everything else, so yeah it has an overall impact on his strengths.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #322 on: June 17, 2013, 03:41:57 PM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5561
  • Tommy Points: 568
Got a bad feeling that Danny Ainge got worked over here.

I had that feeling this morning. I'm more upset about Jordan than anything else

The Celtics seem too eager to get this done. Gave away their leverage by looking too willing to do it.

Danny didn't really have a choice. Doc made it known to him that he did not want to return it seems. What was Danny to do? Force Doc to come coach a team he's not into? Doc put him in a very tough trade.

Prepare for some dark days ahead guys.
*CB Miami Heat*
Kyle Lowry, Dwayne Wade, 13th pick in even numbered rounds, 18th pick in odd numbered rounds.

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #323 on: June 17, 2013, 03:44:12 PM »

Offline Eja117

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19274
  • Tommy Points: 1254
I will be really ticked if we settle for table scraps, which seems to be the scenario here. I have no desire for backups and late draft picks

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #324 on: June 17, 2013, 03:44:27 PM »

Offline WeMadeIt17

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3397
  • Tommy Points: 435
Please just get Josh Smith after this and i'll be ok with this.

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #325 on: June 17, 2013, 03:45:44 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
Danny didn't really have a choice. Doc made it known to him that he did not want to return it seems.
For all we know, Ainge is pushing Doc's hand, seeing as the possibility to get Doc is the only leverage he's got in this trade.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #326 on: June 17, 2013, 03:47:06 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11833
  • Tommy Points: 950
The ONLY way I can be OK with this is if another shoe drops (e.g. Josh Smith).

Do you have the patience to handle it if the other shoe doesn't drop unti lthe summer of 2014?
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #327 on: June 17, 2013, 03:49:25 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
We are used to DA working over other GMs. I hope the tables haven't turned here.....
If KG/Doc/PP all are pushing this its hard for him to get more.

Yep, you only get to make good deals if you have leverage.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #328 on: June 17, 2013, 03:52:31 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11833
  • Tommy Points: 950
I will be really ticked if we settle for table scraps, which seems to be the scenario here. I have no desire for backups and late draft picks

You're unlikely to get more than that if you make a trade with a playoff-caliber team.

This is why Ainge should push for an unprotected 2016 pick, which is far enough in the future that the Clippers could be an injury away from giving the Celtics a nice lottery pick.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.
« Reply #329 on: June 17, 2013, 03:52:52 PM »

Offline prov1ml34

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 604
  • Tommy Points: 68
Quote
gary washburn ‏@GwashNBAGlobe 2m
Source close to Doc said whole situation getting complicated and Doc still grappling with decision #celtics
DKC Dallas Mavericks                         
PG: Darren Collison
SG: OJ Mayo
SF: Jae Crowder
PF: Dirk Nowitzki/Jackie Carmichael
C: Brandan Wright/Rudy Gobert
Coach - Rick Carlisle