Fire Ainge!

[Celtics4ever]

Can we fire the original poster.  Ainge has made up competitive again and we got a championship under his watch.   

[SparzWizard]

Al Jefferson, tony Allen,delonte,rondo, green for the injured corpse of Perkins and Nate Robinson, Avery Bradley with a mid first?

So basically you're saying all his great drafts and trades were lucky and the others were his skill....
Right okay buddy.
Here's a fact...without Ainge, we don't have a championship in 2008. If KG didn't go down in 2009, we probably have 3 championships.

Eat the reality cookie bro.

We would be working on banner #20 by now lol.

[tarheelsxxiii]

How would this be DA's fault? One thing stop throwing the Perk trade for the case DA is a bad GM argument. Right now Green is better than Perk. He was one of our best player in the second half threw the playoffs.

I like Green, but Perk was perfect for us, at the time. Knowing we had a small window, trading away our defensive anchor and the soul of our team cost us the 2nd/3rd championship (however you want to look at it). Had he not gone down with the injury before game 7, we wouldn't have given up 100 offensive rebounds and probably would've won that game.

[D.o.s.]

How would this be DA's fault? One thing stop throwing the Perk trade for the case DA is a bad GM argument. Right now Green is better than Perk. He was one of our best player in the second half threw the playoffs.

I like Green, but Perk was perfect for us, at the time. Knowing we had a small window, trading away our defensive anchor and the soul of our team cost us the 2nd/3rd championship (however you want to look at it). Had he not gone down with the injury before game 7, we wouldn't have given up 100 offensive rebounds and probably would've won that game.

That's revisionist history--Perk was looking awful at the trade deadline, nowhere near what he had been pre-injury. A trajectory that he's still continued on, actually.

The championship killer in 2010-11 was Shaq not being able to stay healthy after those first thirty-or-so games.

[goCeltics]

the griz pulled out of the mayo ray deal, it's pretty clear if you have listened to wyc or ainge on weei

[tarheelsxxiii]

Here's a fact...without Ainge, we don't have a championship in 2008. If KG didn't go down in 2009, we probably have 3 championships.

Without KG, we wouldn't have had an opportunity at any championships. Can one argue KG fell into Ainge's lap? Was it Ainge's acumen that brought us KG (and that title), or a huge favor from a friend? Either can be supported...

So move on to post-trade history. What has he done? Letting Perk go, imho, was a giant mistake (if we are discussing short-term success, as you are above). Losing Allen was a mistake. Letting Ray walk was a mistake. Relatedly, dangling everyone openly, at every trade deadline were his biggest mistakes. We may not have lost Ray, we may have had a better chance at enticing FAs to come to Boston, and we may have seen a less-than-terrified Lee at the end of the year (maybe Bradley in the playoffs, too). A lot of speculation, but no less warranted than a lot of the points above meant to crucify the OP.

[tarheelsxxiii]

How would this be DA's fault? One thing stop throwing the Perk trade for the case DA is a bad GM argument. Right now Green is better than Perk. He was one of our best player in the second half threw the playoffs.

I like Green, but Perk was perfect for us, at the time. Knowing we had a small window, trading away our defensive anchor and the soul of our team cost us the 2nd/3rd championship (however you want to look at it). Had he not gone down with the injury before game 7, we wouldn't have given up 100 offensive rebounds and probably would've won that game.

That's revisionist history--Perk was looking awful at the trade deadline, nowhere near what he had been pre-injury. A trajectory that he's still continued on, actually.

The championship killer in 2010-11 was Shaq not being able to stay healthy after those first thirty-or-so games.

I must have missed that. Maybe I'm wrong, but in the games I saw I remember Perk looking solid very quickly after he returned from injury.

Shaq's injuries were a killer. But what proportion of us thought he wouldn't be hobbled by injuries at that point?

Even though the two aren't really related, if I were to roll the dice on Perk or Shaq in these two scenarios, I'd have bet my money on Perk being able to play.

[Smutzy#9]

Al Jefferson, tony Allen,delonte,rondo, green for the injured corpse of Perkins and Nate Robinson, Avery Bradley with a mid first?

So basically you're saying all his great drafts and trades were lucky and the others were his skill....
Right okay buddy.
Here's a fact...without Ainge, we don't have a championship in 2008. If KG didn't go down in 2009, we probably have 3 championships.

Eat the reality cookie bro.

Agreed 2 knee injuries held us back from 3 peating. Kg goes down we lose to orlando. We make that game we beat LA, we would have had the mental edge over them from the last season. Perk doesnt go down the year after in the finals we would have beaten them again.

To the opening poster

the fact that after this year you STILL think the jeff green trade was a bad one. Have you watched perk the last 2-3 years. He is terrible!!!!! Jeff green emerged this year as a legit top 5 SF in the league. I like him more than melo (though i hate melo because he is nothing more than a chucker)

you are delusional and a top 15-20 coach. Seriously people on this board rag on rivers something chronic. Everyone in the league reckons he is one of the best coaches apart from I would have to say he is top 5 easy. other wise a heap of people wouldnt be after him.

[southshorematt]

NOPE. I DONT WANT DOC BACK

I'm so p---ed at him over this whole thing... he sucks. You signed a 5 year deal, MAN UP

[D.o.s.]

How would this be DA's fault? One thing stop throwing the Perk trade for the case DA is a bad GM argument. Right now Green is better than Perk. He was one of our best player in the second half threw the playoffs.

I like Green, but Perk was perfect for us, at the time. Knowing we had a small window, trading away our defensive anchor and the soul of our team cost us the 2nd/3rd championship (however you want to look at it). Had he not gone down with the injury before game 7, we wouldn't have given up 100 offensive rebounds and probably would've won that game.

That's revisionist history--Perk was looking awful at the trade deadline, nowhere near what he had been pre-injury. A trajectory that he's still continued on, actually.

The championship killer in 2010-11 was Shaq not being able to stay healthy after those first thirty-or-so games.

I must have missed that. Maybe I'm wrong, but in the games I saw I remember Perk looking solid very quickly after he returned from injury.

Shaq's injuries were a killer. But what proportion of us thought he wouldn't be hobbled by injuries at that point?

Even though the two aren't really related, if I were to roll the dice on Perk or Shaq in these two scenarios, I'd have bet my money on Perk being able to play.

Perkins just recently, like this season, somewhat rounded into form. Which makes sense, because it takes about two years to really get your legs back under you after an injury like that.

However, I totally agree on rolling the dice on Perk instead of Shaq in a vaccuum, but there's no way Ainge is able to send Shaq to the Thunder in order to get someone to replace 'Quis as our backup 3 after he goes down with that spinal injury.

And that's the crux of the matter, to my mind--If Daniels didn't go out like that, Perk never gets traded, we don't need to bank our title hopes on the perpetually injured O'Neil brothers, and who knows what would've happened in the playoffs?

[BballTim]

If this deal doesn't go down its just another one of the many swings and misses in the career of Danny Ainge during the Big 3 era. Trading Brooks for JJJ, Trading Perk for Jeff Green, drafting J.R. Giddings. Not moving Ray for Mayo and a 1st at the 2011 deadline. Now trying to get too cute with the Clippers and holding them up for a top 15-20 coach that is severely overrated and a washed up future HOFer in KG. A few other swings and misses are Lee, Bradley, Sheed, oh and Brandon Bass' amazing contract. He really isn't a good GM and the only reason him and Rivers had a job after 2007 was due to the fact "Kevin" was his buddy in Minnesota. Oh not to mention that he held onto Rondo way too long and now the guy has zero trade value due to his injury.

  Find any GM that's held his job for more than a few years. Look over every transaction they've been involved with. You'll find a pretty serious amount of misses. And if you think he got a sweetheart deal from Minny then you could tell us about all the better offers on the table that the wolves turned down in order to "help his friend".

[BballTim]

Here's a fact...without Ainge, we don't have a championship in 2008. If KG didn't go down in 2009, we probably have 3 championships.

Without KG, we wouldn't have had an opportunity at any championships. Can one argue KG fell into Ainge's lap? Was it Ainge's acumen that brought us KG (and that title), or a huge favor from a friend? Either can be supported...

  One can be supported by what happened, one's fantasy that's made up out of thin air.

[chambers]

Here's a fact...without Ainge, we don't have a championship in 2008. If KG didn't go down in 2009, we probably have 3 championships.

Without KG, we wouldn't have had an opportunity at any championships. Can one argue KG fell into Ainge's lap? Was it Ainge's acumen that brought us KG (and that title), or a huge favor from a friend? Either can be supported...

So move on to post-trade history. What has he done? Letting Perk go, imho, was a giant mistake (if we are discussing short-term success, as you are above). Losing Allen was a mistake. Letting Ray walk was a mistake. Relatedly, dangling everyone openly, at every trade deadline were his biggest mistakes. We may not have lost Ray, we may have had a better chance at enticing FAs to come to Boston, and we may have seen a less-than-terrified Lee at the end of the year (maybe Bradley in the playoffs, too). A lot of speculation, but no less warranted than a lot of the points above meant to crucify the OP.

Firstly, Danny Ainge collected the assets to get KG. He got delonte, al jeff, gomes all outside the top 10. Jefferson was 14 and the highest pick outside of Jeff Green at 5. He absolutely nailed the Jefferson, delonte and gomes picks for where they were in the draft. If he wiffed on these picks there is no where near enough to even think about a KG trade. like former Wolves GM David Kahn or Bobcats brass would we be able to trade for KG? Jesus Kahn hadfour or five years in a row with top 8 picks.
Danny turned a bunch of mid first and late first & second rounders into Kevin Garnett.
Secondly he is one of a handful of GMs with the balls to approach the Wolves with such a crazy idea. He had the vision to go after KG and flip Green into Ray Allen when our Kevin Durant+Oden dreams were dashed.


Thirdly, having Perk on our team doesnt change a thing in 2010. He sucked and could barely lift off two feet. He was recovering from injury and we needed a backup for Pierce and a huge future asset. He actually went after Harden but OKC insisted on Green.
Perk on one leg doesnt get us a championship and Danny feared that Perk may never be the same again so he moved him while his stock was high & because Perk was going to demand way too much money as a free agent role player coming of major surgery.

Absolutely nailed that move. Then Greens heart stuff shows up and he still sees the value in grooming him and signing him to what will be a value deal at 9 million per year...could be a steal if he averages 20 and 5 next season.Give credit where its due.
Presti and Uriji are seen as elite GMs, same eith the rockets GM. How many top 3 or top 10 picks have those guys had in the last 10 years or when building a contender? How many has Danny had? Remember how he got Rondo? He specifically bought his way back into the draft to get him when he dropped to.21.
It's actually arguable that he's the best GM in the NBA.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Firstly, Danny Ainge collected the assets to get KG. He got delonte, al jeff, gomes all outside the top 10. Jefferson was 14 and the highest pick outside of Jeff Green at 5. He absolutely nailed the Jefferson, delonte and gomes picks for where they were in the draft. If he wiffed on these picks there is no where near enough to even think about a KG trade. like former Wolves GM David Kahn or Bobcats brass would we be able to trade for KG? Jesus Kahn hadfour or five years in a row with top 8 picks.
Danny turned a bunch of mid first and late first & second rounders into Kevin Garnett.

Secondly he is one of a handful of GMs with the balls to approach the Wolves with such a crazy idea. He had the vision to go after KG and flip Green into Ray Allen when our Kevin Durant+Oden dreams were dashed.

Reading through your post, you admittedly know the facts and order of events far better than I. But my main argument is that he acquired KG in part due to his relationship with McHale. I obviously can't prove that, but I believe it to be true. So while I don't deny the move was fantastic for us, and he was at the reigns when it happened, I think he was gifted with it as much as he earned it. I'd take that into consideration as much as anything else in debating Ainge's success as a GM.

Also, Kahn is obviously the dregs of the barrel - probably not the best comparison here. And I think he wiffed on Delonte when he let him go a second time. Despite his susceptibility to injuries, he was the most solid back-up guard we had during the Big 3 era.

Thirdly, having Perk on our team doesnt change a thing in 2010. He sucked and could barely lift off two feet. He was recovering from injury and we needed a backup for Pierce and a huge future asset. He actually went after Harden but OKC insisted on Green.
Perk on one leg doesnt get us a championship and Danny feared that Perk may never be the same again so he moved him while his stock was high & because Perk was going to demand way too much money as a free agent role player coming of major surgery.

I disagree that Perk looked bad when he came back. If his stock was high, apparently you nor other GMs thought so either. And admittedly, he did get paid by arguably the best GM in the league at the time.

Absolutely nailed that move. Then Greens heart stuff shows up and he still sees the value in grooming him and signing him to what will be a value deal at 9 million per year...could be a steal if he averages 20 and 5 next season.Give credit where its due.

I think because the window was so short, keeping Perk at the time was the right move. Hindsight is 20/20, so I realize it's easy for me to say that after Green's heart problems came to light. But at the time, I felt Perk gave us a better chance to win within our small window of contention. I don't know how that would've work out logistically, I just wish we had found a way to keep him without crippling ourselves financially.

Presti and Uriji are seen as elite GMs, same eith the rockets GM. How many top 3 or top 10 picks have those guys had in the last 10 years or when building a contender? How many has Danny had? Remember how he got Rondo? He specifically bought his way back into the draft to get him when he dropped to.21.
It's actually arguable that he's the best GM in the NBA.

I agree. Again I'd argue KG was a gift as much as a shrewd acquisition, but realize it may be a moot point. But agree Rondo was a big-time selection.

[Chief Macho]

i agree.  and i don't hate ainge.  dude has just been on the job too long.  same with doc.  people getting angry over their departure or holding on to their past accomplishments are just scared.  change is good when the owners are committed.