Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[Goldstar88]

Enough said.

At least publicly, Brown didn?t complain about the decision to keep him and the other starters on the bench to end the game.

They just played harder, Brown said of the Celtics bench players. That group came out, was able to cut into their lead because they played harder. The group before that, we didn?t play hard enough.

[Vermont Green]

So, one of the biggest critiques of Joe in 2023 was his lack of adjustments, not only in-game but from game to game.  Once we lost momentum we couldn't right the ship.

The team seemed to get over that in 2024.  The following season it was hard to determine, because while we were flat against NY and never recovered, we were dealing with some pretty big injury issues (KP, Jrue and Brown, along with Tatum eventually). 

I think this playoff we're kind of back to the 2023 coaching.  Joe hasn't implemented any real changes in strategy or done anything successful to get us going. 

I've raised this before, but I really think that the team misses Charles Lee.

Joe said pretty much this when asked about the COTY award.  He said that it is about the entire coaching staff, not just the head coach, which is true.

I think it is very hard for a fan to determine if a coach is making appropriate adjustments or not.  Just this series, I have seen criticism that he should play a deeper bench.  He did, and we still lost.  That we should take less 3PA, the team has been, and we lost the last couple of games.  I personally don't think you should change the starting line up just because you have a couple of bad shooting games.  You have to go with the broader data set.

BOS is shooting 29% from 3 the last 2 games, averaging 40 3PA per game.  It was 37.6% on 48 3PA the first 4 games.  Not sure what adjustment fixes this problem.

[Goldstar88]

So, one of the biggest critiques of Joe in 2023 was his lack of adjustments, not only in-game but from game to game.  Once we lost momentum we couldn't right the ship.

The team seemed to get over that in 2024.  The following season it was hard to determine, because while we were flat against NY and never recovered, we were dealing with some pretty big injury issues (KP, Jrue and Brown, along with Tatum eventually). 

I think this playoff we're kind of back to the 2023 coaching.  Joe hasn't implemented any real changes in strategy or done anything successful to get us going. 

I've raised this before, but I really think that the team misses Charles Lee.

Joe said pretty much this when asked about the COTY award.  He said that it is about the entire coaching staff, not just the head coach, which is true.

I think it is very hard for a fan to determine if a coach is making appropriate adjustments or not.  Just this series, I have seen criticism that he should play a deeper bench.  He did, and we still lost.  That we should take less 3PA, the team has been, and we lost the last couple of games.  I personally don't think you should change the starting line up just because you have a couple of bad shooting games.  You have to go with the broader data set.

BOS is shooting 29% from 3 the last 2 games, averaging 40 3PA per game.  It was 37.6% on 48 3PA the first 4 games.  Not sure what adjustment fixes this problem.

Longer shootarounds/layup lines before the game, obviously. 

Also, how did Charles Lee do in these playoffs. Eric Spolestra, too. Spo is probably the best coach in the NBA and he?s at home right now. It is not like the Heat don?t have good players. At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court.

[celticinorlando]

I'd like to see less ISO and actual ball movement.

I'd like to see small ball with Tatum at the 5...get out and go.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Let's see how Game 7 goes.

Even if we win game 7, it does not change the overall incompetency consistently displayed by Mazzulla.
We aren't winning any more titles with this guy. The 2024 title was in spite of Joe with great talent and a relatively easy path in the playoffs.
The surprising success in the regular season may turn into a bad reason to keep Joe. His playoff struggles have to be the only criteria.

i cannot argue with any of that.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

I'd like to see less ISO and actual ball movement.

I'd like to see small ball with Tatum at the 5...get out and go.

[Who]

3 out 4 playoffs with Joe have been first round exits or a choke job in the second round vs Knicks.

The one they won was because that team was coach proof. Not good enough.

I think that you're misremembering.

I think that we've underachieved in the playoffs other than the title year, but in 2023 we lost in Game 7 of the ECF (after falling behind 3-0).

Joe's track record is:  2023:  ECF; 2024: Championship; 2025: Second Round; 2026: TBD

I would agree with the point that BOS has underachieved now in the playoffs in 3 of the 4 seasons under Joe.

That Miami series in 2023 was train wreck.
The NY serise last year in 2025 was a train wreck.
Losing in the first round this year, if they do indeed lose, would be a major disappointment as well.

So 3 out of 4 seasons ending in major disappointments.

[SCeltic34]

The argument is not who deserves more blame when you don't play well.  The majority of the credit, or blame, in both wins and in losses, always lies most heavily on the players.

The real question is whether Joe is consistently getting the most out of the talent available on the teams he oversees.  I would strongly argue that he does not.  2024 was great.  That team was on a mission.  But we had the luxury of Jrue Holiday, who was phenomenal in the playoffs, and of course KP.  A mediocre coach could win with a roster as talented as the one we had in 2024.  Every other year has been marred by inconsistency and woeful underperformances when it mattered most. 

I'd personally lost all faith in Joe's playoff coaching ability mid-way through the Knicks series last year.  We embarrassed ourselves against an inferior team that really wasn't that good, essentially beating ourselves with an incredibly stubborn brand of basketball that leads to poor shot quality and lets poor defenders (such as KAT and Brunson) off the hook.  It's not the volume of 3's necessarily that's the problem - if the ball is working around and it leads to a good quality look from 3, then great.  It's the stupid, early shot clock no-pass pull up 3's from DWhite, Tatum, Brown, and others stemming from Mazzula ball that has infected our team. It leads to boom / bust performances, with far too many busts.  There's no reason why a team with two elite wing players should score less than 100 points three times in six games like we have against the Sixers this series.  We have the talent to play faster, drive, cause defensive confusion, and get better looks.  We don't do it consistently enough and Mazzula ball is a big part of that.

I've come to expect poor playoff performances under Joe, and I've been right so far.  That's why I'm not even that upset, even after blowing the lead against Philly in game 5, and a terrible performance in game 6.  If we win game 7 then great.  If we lose that's fine too, because I don't expect much out of this squad.  It will give Brad the data he needs to evaluate and retool in the offseason.

I don't expect Joe to be fired if we lose in game 7.  That's out of my control and it's fine if he doesn't.  But what worries me is the waste of JB and JT's prime years.  I've never been more furious as a fan than during the series against NYK last year, which was a waste of an incredible roster.  Mazzula ball wrecked our chances.  He's not the best coach to get the most out of our teams, and he's proven that time and time again.