Would you rather have Rondo or Sullinger back right now?

[Fafnir]

The question is would we have pushed the ball ahead via the pass with him?

Probably not, but given that we're not getting more fast break points, our pace is now only half a possession higher since his injury and the offense is crattering back to our mean for the season so far I don't think that's a big factor.

We blitzed a bunch of teams in transition at home right after Rondo went out, it seems to have proven to be a temporary surge. Probably a combination of other teams adjustments and our own play falling back.

Our half court offensive changes without Rondo are far more important than "passes ahead". But its not what Tommy talks about so....

[playdream]

How does he make the new guys worse? JET was the only one really struggling in January(Pierce too, but he is not new). He played better in Feb. Now in March, JET is struggling again and the team is not winning like they were in Feb and you can't blame that on Rondo because he is not here.
[/quote]
yeah it can't really be Rondo's fault since it's the team that has changed not him, but the situation is when he leaves the court the whole team suddenly have vital, even before his injury, and since Sully went down our team started to struggle

 

[Fafnir]

since Sully went down our team started to struggle

Sully went down 1 game and 4 minutes after Rondo did.

[Prof. Clutch]

I'd rather have Larry Bird back

[zimbo]

How does he make the new guys worse? JET was the only one really struggling in January(Pierce too, but he is not new). He played better in Feb. Now in March, JET is struggling again and the team is not winning like they were in Feb and you can't blame that on Rondo because he is not here.

yeah it can't really be Rondo's fault since it's the team that has changed not him, but the situation is when he leaves the court the whole team suddenly have vital, even before his injury, and since Sully went down our team started to struggle

What are you talking about. Do you know who Sully even is?

Like Fafnir mentioned, Sully went down 1 game after Rondo did. The team still won w/o him too. So according to the logic of some around here, Sully isn't necessary to the team either.

[pearljammer10]

This shouldnt even be debatable.

Would you rather have your all star second best point guard in the league back on your team... Or an undersized rookie power forward that cant jump?

Like seriously? Its Rondo by a landslide. No contest.

Sully fills a need, yes. But Rondo is arguably the teams best all around player currently. How is this even a debate?

[Clench123]

Rondo without a doubt.

Is this even a question?

[Boris Badenov]

Rondo.  Sully can't win a playoff game (or playoff series) nearly on his own.  Rondo can.

I like Sully a lot, but at some point, talent trumps fit.

when did Rondo win a playoff game on his own?? Is as memorable as Green scoring 43 points a few weeks ago. Unless you win, its not memorable nor significant imo

There's the 2010 game 4 against Cleveland that sent LBJ out of town. His line was 29-18-13. Rondo dominated that game

When did he once dominate like this, this year?? I do remember an assist record he was pursuing, and also remember alot of pounding the ball making selective passes and gambling on defense. Losing streaks, slumps. He changed the way he played, with less intensity , laziness and cuteness

  Nobody dominates games like that every night. I think the issue is that no matter what ails the team (Terry's knee, PP's pinched nerve, Green needing to get back into shape, the new guys learning the system), you're either calling it "Rondo being lazy" or "Rondo pounding the ball". Rondo wasn't the reason our defense fell apart when KG went to the bench earlier this year. He isn't the reason that PP and Terry were shooting poorly and scoring less when they were less healthy. He's not the reason Green was shooting so poorly the first 2 months of the season. Laying the losing streaks and slumps on him is nonsense.

Not to mention that it is incredible that someone would criticize Rondo for the way he was pursuing the assist record without giving him any credit for almost breaking it. The only other PGs in league history with equal or longer streaks are Stockton and Magic, who are without question the two best pure point guards of the modern era.

And as far as that Cleveland game, it's the same nonsense. While Rondo may not have had 29-18-13 in any game this year, in the month of January alone he had the following lines:

14/11/10
17/10/12
30/2/7
17/13/8
23/10/11
16/10/11

For that 14-game period his high in points was 30, his high in assists was 15 and his high in rebounds was 13.

Sully never once touched that level of performance. The most "impressive" thing about Sully during that period is that he fouled out 6 times in 14 games, playing 23mpg.

But yeah, let's choose Sully instead of Rondo because Rondo wasn't getting 29/18/13 every night.

[CelticsFan9]

Far and away it's Rondo.

How many playoff games has Sully won us?  None.

How many playoff games has Rondo won us?  Probably five or six, all by himself.

Look, I love Sully, but to do anything substantial in the playoffs (beating Miami), we're going to need a star, and Rondo is that star.  We also need a guy that Miami doesn't really have an answer for, and that's Rondo, too.

Finally, Rondo is going to make everyone else around him better much more than Sully does.  Sully's rebounds are massive, but Rondo's ability to run an offense is much more valuable, especially in the playoffs.

This shouldn't even be a question.

[xmuscularghandix]

Far and away it's Sullinger, he fits in with the rebounding issues and is an upgrade defensively and offensively. Celtics are playing well because they're sharing the ball. We don't need Rondo out there telling people that they aren't good enough to touch the ball until he decides they are.

[CelticsFan9]

Far and away it's Sullinger, he fits in with the rebounding issues and is an upgrade defensively and offensively. Celtics are playing well because they're sharing the ball. We don't need Rondo out there telling people that they aren't good enough to touch the ball until he decides they are.

I'd love to hear an explanation of this statement.

[Tr1boy]

Rondo.  Sully can't win a playoff game (or playoff series) nearly on his own.  Rondo can.

I like Sully a lot, but at some point, talent trumps fit.

when did Rondo win a playoff game on his own?? Is as memorable as Green scoring 43 points a few weeks ago. Unless you win, its not memorable nor significant imo

There's the 2010 game 4 against Cleveland that sent LBJ out of town. His line was 29-18-13. Rondo dominated that game

When did he once dominate like this, this year?? I do remember an assist record he was pursuing, and also remember alot of pounding the ball making selective passes and gambling on defense. Losing streaks, slumps. He changed the way he played, with less intensity , laziness and cuteness

  Nobody dominates games like that every night. I think the issue is that no matter what ails the team (Terry's knee, PP's pinched nerve, Green needing to get back into shape, the new guys learning the system), you're either calling it "Rondo being lazy" or "Rondo pounding the ball". Rondo wasn't the reason our defense fell apart when KG went to the bench earlier this year. He isn't the reason that PP and Terry were shooting poorly and scoring less when they were less healthy. He's not the reason Green was shooting so poorly the first 2 months of the season. Laying the losing streaks and slumps on him is nonsense.

Again this ones easy. With Rondo earlier this year we stunk and without him starting with the Miami game until Barb went down, we were lethal. Everyone started to play better as a team.

Rondo did pound the ball , walked up with the ball and wanted guys to set picks for him and run around screens like headless monkeys for an easy bucket. In the end they had only like 5-7 seconds to shoot, which is pretty stressful

After they let rondo down, he started to get them to do the same thing but in reality gave the ball to Pierce and KG most of the time. 

Without Rondo, we were running up with the basketball, sharing the ball, spreading the energy and also had enough fast break points. Our defense was also great. This is celtics basketball

[Evantime34]

The question is would we have pushed the ball ahead via the pass with him?

Probably not, but given that we're not getting more fast break points, our pace is now only half a possession higher since his injury and the offense is crattering back to our mean for the season so far I don't think that's a big factor.

We blitzed a bunch of teams in transition at home right after Rondo went out, it seems to have proven to be a temporary surge. Probably a combination of other teams adjustments and our own play falling back.

Our half court offensive changes without Rondo are far more important than "passes ahead". But its not what Tommy talks about so....

Ok I guess I more accurately should have said the entire offensive philosophy change rather than the early pass ahead. We are initiating offense with dribble hand offs instead of Rondo running a pick and roll.

Do you think Rondo would be able to adapt to this half court offense? Do you think it is more effective than our previous half court offense? To me in the half court since Rondo went down our best offense has been Green dribbling at the top of the key getting a head of steam then getting to the basket. Would Green has as many such opportunities with Rondo around?

[BballTim]

Rondo.  Sully can't win a playoff game (or playoff series) nearly on his own.  Rondo can.

I like Sully a lot, but at some point, talent trumps fit.

when did Rondo win a playoff game on his own?? Is as memorable as Green scoring 43 points a few weeks ago. Unless you win, its not memorable nor significant imo

There's the 2010 game 4 against Cleveland that sent LBJ out of town. His line was 29-18-13. Rondo dominated that game

When did he once dominate like this, this year?? I do remember an assist record he was pursuing, and also remember alot of pounding the ball making selective passes and gambling on defense. Losing streaks, slumps. He changed the way he played, with less intensity , laziness and cuteness

  Nobody dominates games like that every night. I think the issue is that no matter what ails the team (Terry's knee, PP's pinched nerve, Green needing to get back into shape, the new guys learning the system), you're either calling it "Rondo being lazy" or "Rondo pounding the ball". Rondo wasn't the reason our defense fell apart when KG went to the bench earlier this year. He isn't the reason that PP and Terry were shooting poorly and scoring less when they were less healthy. He's not the reason Green was shooting so poorly the first 2 months of the season. Laying the losing streaks and slumps on him is nonsense.

Again this ones easy. With Rondo earlier this year we stunk and without him starting with the Miami game until Barb went down, we were lethal. Everyone started to play better as a team.

Rondo did pound the ball , walked up with the ball and wanted guys to set picks for him and run around screens like headless monkeys for an easy bucket. In the end they had only like 5-7 seconds to shoot, which is pretty stressful

After they let rondo down, he started to get them to do the same thing but in reality gave the ball to Pierce and KG most of the time. 

Without Rondo, we were running up with the basketball, sharing the ball, spreading the energy and also had enough fast break points. Our defense was also great. This is celtics basketball

  It's easy because you didn't address any of my points. You're also explaining why the offense has improved so much without Rondo when the biggest difference in the team is on defense, namely how well we play defense when KG is on the bench. Did you ever notice any of the things that I mentioned when you watched the Celts play? My guess, based on your response, is that you didn't.

[clover]

I'd rather have Larry Bird back

Better that than Larry Bird's back.