2012 - CB draft board "Let's get it on!"

[StartOrien]

People keep allowing IP to correct his mistakes:

Bulls send: Jeremy Lin, Kenneth Faried
Cavs send: Jrue Holiday, Thad Young

Faried is a significant loss, but Jeremy Lin averaged around 8 assists and 5 turnovers per game as a starter, while shooting a fairly pedestrian 44% from the field.  That's not a guy you can build around.

Holiday had a bad year, but he's at least a pretty good defender, and has more upside.

Meh, I'd say I disagree. I think IP lost out on this trade significantly

I'm listening...

I have a feeling you've read my thoughts on Lin but I'll reiterate them on the forum -

Personally, I like Lin as a Point Guard. I think while he can be ball dominant, he's very, very good in the pick and roll and is an underrated passer. We spent day after day in the winter waiting for the other shoe to fall on Lin, and he kept playing at a riduclously high level. Show the turnovers all you'd like, but we all watched those games and know exactly what we saw.

And while he tailed off a little, and showed to have some difficulty against pressure I think some of that can be dismissed by him essentially being a rookie. A rookie playing in New York who in 30 games played with 3 COMPLETELY different versions of the Knicks.

I don't expect him to be the 30-10 machine he was, but he's got a lot of potential and in a worst case scenario he's all the things I started this rant on about. That's an average starting point guard in this league, and that's worst case.

---

And to make the exchange, for a good not great point guard in Holiday (who WE originally drafted, so I don't believe I'm underrating him) cost IP Kenneth Faried - a young, physical freak of an athlete who has a very unique skill set which should appeal to a great amount of teams. You could say maybe I've overvaluing him, but I'm positive other teams are very attracted to his style of play and would've paid for him.

I thought Faried was a great chip for IP that could've put himself over the top. Packing him with Lin or him with a center to SIGNIFICANTLY upgrade his roster.

So while you might like the fit of Holiday next to Wade better, I think it cost him a very valuable asset that could've put him over the top.

Now, he's kind of out of moves and still a full step behind the Mavs and probably still behind my team and maybe a few others.

[StartOrien]

Wow, that post certainly went against my philosophy of trying to keep things short so people actually read them.

[Rondo2287]

when in doubt, head to cleveland!

+1 very dissapointing

DisappoInting because my team got better or because you feel the trade was unbalanced? Because, if you think the trade was vastly unbalanced, I'd request an explanation, as I really disagree.

I think Talent wise it was balanced, im just dissapointed because I think Lin is a worse fit for yoki's team than holliday was.  I also like Holliday more because of his defense and larger sample size than Lin.

And on the flip side you removed a question mark and bad fit for your team but downgrading slightly from Faried to Young (That is just my evaluation).

Also just dissapointing because it just seems like whenever people fee like they need to improve their team they just go to a few GM's that have made multiple poor moves this season.  And I don't mean this as an attack on you IP or Yoki.  Yoki knows how i felt about this trade. so this is nothing new.

But this could all just be sour grapes from my point of view, we'll see if i feel differently in an hour or so.  Also this very well could have happened last year and the year before and I just don't remember as well.

[Roy H.]

Now, he's kind of out of moves...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._T._Barnum

IP will be fine.

[Rondo2287]

Again, im not trying to put down IP, he made a great move for his team in my eyes. 

[StartOrien]

Now, he's kind of out of moves...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._T._Barnum

IP will be fine.

But that doesn't make it a good decision.

If he wasn't sold on Lin as a fit he should've traded him for 80 cents on the dollar. Guy like Lou Williams off the top of my head would work just fine. Heck, there's STILL plenty of more than capable starting point guards, he could've moved him for a plethora of picks if he was that nervous about the fit. 

But to give up Faried in this trade was outright foolish. Again, your own opinion on Faried might vary but I can assure you he has tremendous value in this draft.

It was a poor decision by IP, and a very good trade for Yoki

[Rondo2287]

Now, he's kind of out of moves...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._T._Barnum

IP will be fine.

But that doesn't make it a good decision.

If he wasn't sold on Lin as a fit he should've traded him for 80 cents on the dollar. Guy like Lou Williams off the top of my head would work just fine. Heck, there's STILL plenty of more than capable starting point guards, he could've moved him for a plethora of picks if he was that nervous about the fit. 

But to give up Faried in this trade was outright foolish. Again, your own opinion on Faried might vary but I can assure you he has tremendous value in this draft.

It was a poor decision by IP, and a very good trade for Yoki

Well I guess SO's opinion being so strong kinda nullify's my complaint.  As I said I see Young and Faried as very similar players so maybe Im missing the boat here.

[celticpride07]

Sopping billups bargnani and 9.9

[StartOrien]

Well I guess SO's opinion being so strong kinda nullify's my complaint.  As I said I see Young and Faried as very similar players so maybe Im missing the boat here.

Again, this is about value and how people see it -

I know he's just 24, but Thadeus Young has been in the league for 5 years now and hasn't improved a lick. He is who he is, and because of it people's opinions have soured.


Faried could stay the player he is, but right now people see a young athletic freak of a rookie who loves to play defense and rebound, and their imaginations run wild with his potential.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

MANIMAL.

I personally don't want Lin, but IP sold me on Faried, I'd live with that.

Faried and MKG, the motor on that team.

So all in all.

I traded Kyrie, Thad Young and got Lin, Faried, Drummond. Not as bad I think.

[Roy H.]

I really didn't want to make this trade. I think that Lin in a vacuum is the better player, and obviously Faried is a much better player and prospect than Holiday. I wanted a straight up Lin/Holiday switch, but Yoki wouldn't budge and got this.

IP sold me on Faried, I'd live with that.

Maybe there wasn't quite so much arm twisting by Yoki as IP implied.

[jgod213]

the 8.1 pick is in, right? so we're waiting on LuckyRebus for two picks to get us going?

[Roy H.]

the 8.1 pick is in, right? so we're waiting on LuckyRebus for two picks to get us going?

Yeah.  JSD's pick was technically early, but things can get started.

[indeedproceed]

Now, he's kind of out of moves...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._T._Barnum

IP will be fine.

But that doesn't make it a good decision.

If he wasn't sold on Lin as a fit he should've traded him for 80 cents on the dollar. Guy like Lou Williams off the top of my head would work just fine. Heck, there's STILL plenty of more than capable starting point guards, he could've moved him for a plethora of picks if he was that nervous about the fit. 

But to give up Faried in this trade was outright foolish. Again, your own opinion on Faried might vary but I can assure you he has tremendous value in this draft.

It was a poor decision by IP, and a very good trade for Yoki

Well I guess SO's opinion being so strong kinda nullify's my complaint.  As I said I see Young and Faried as very similar players so maybe Im missing the boat here.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=youngth01&y1=2012&p2=farieke01&y2=2012

Similar in that they're both 6'8 and 225, yes. In production, Faried, aside from what I know with my own eyes, scored more often and more efficiently, was the top rebounder by a significantly better margin, nearly doubling Young's offensive rebound rate and topping his defensive rebound rate by 10 points. He also has a crazy high motor and was only a rookie last season.

Not that Young is a bad player, he's not as good as Faried. Young is more talented physically and has a better understanding of the game, but I'm not sure how much understanding Faried needs when he runs 1,000 miles an hour, all the time.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Again, im not trying to put down IP, he made a great move for his team in my eyes.

Hey man, so did I.

I don't have to explain the MANIMAL-Young switch.

Lin is not a good defender, but he can light it up and he's a very underrated passer. At this poin I need someone who can score, and Lin could certainly give me that. I gave up defense but boy, Faried, Bogut, MKG on the froncourt crashing the boards is a nice thing to see every night.

One more thing about Lin, he has this aura where he gets teammates to believe in him and follow him. As evident by the Melo and Amare less Knicks. Those guys wanted to play with Lin as their lead. Underrate leadership right there.

And team wise, who can be a better mentor to Lin than Jason Kidd.