The Bradley 20-8 Run was overrated

[rayallen1934]

Just because Ray Allen left, doesn't mean you have to try desperately to tear his replacement down.

When Avery Bradley was on the court with KG as a starter our defense was the best in the NBA by a massive margin, like 87 PP100 and our offense also at its best for this team (though not as amazing).

Was he scoring all those points? Of course not, but he still had an impact on the team. That's what the game is about.

im not disrespecting Bradley

Im pointing out something about his play that I think was overrated.

[GreenFaith1819]

Finding out some pretty interesting stuff so far with my investigation.......

Trying to be as unbiased as I can.

Once I post my findings, you can make the determination for yourself.

[rayallen1934]

I for one disagree.  But more I really wonder what your point of this post is?  You think that if Ray Allen was playing in those games we would have had a better record?  Is that what you are implying?

I really don't know how anyone who watched the C's last year game in game out can say that the reason we got on our run was the lack of competition.  The reason we went on the run was KG got into shape and started playing like the monster he is and AB stepped up big time and added to the clamp down / lock down def.  We were way more athletic and aggressive on both ends and we played to our potential.

So exactly what are you complaining about?

Do people even look at the boxscores. Watching the game is one thing, but when you take a look at the teams they beat, the players who performed and the record. Then compare it to the beginning of the season, you will start to see the real reason why that 20-8 was overrated.

How many days did those 20-8 games come in? No matter the competition ANY team can beat you on ANY given day! A lot of factors of last season made the teams we face harder to defeat than just the players on that team! If it had nothing to do with AB, do you think Doc would have risked Ray's ego and would he change what had been working if it was? I guess Doc and everyone else (the people who really know and not some "fan") must be lying b/c they all credit the change to AB as the catalyst for the better play... mainly b/c of his defense! Before AB moved into the starting lineup KG and PP both had already begun to play much better... we still we losing! Are "you" telling me KG and PP were playing terrible until the last 28 games? Come on now!

The Celtics played the Lakers twice. Two big games for Celtics and Celtic fans right?

The first on February 9th 2012

We lost that game 88-87 .............1 POINT

Kevin Garnett was 6-23

Paul Pierce was 7-18 , 18 points ,did contribute with 7 assists

Ray Allen was a decent 9-20, 22 points

2nd game

Allen 6-13, 17 points, 6 assists

Pierce 4-14 , 13 points

Garnett, 7-11, 14 points , 0 attempts at the FT LINE




All i know is you continue to look at these games. The real reason the Celtics were not better was because these guys either were lazy, or not in shape...

So it made Ray look a lot worse...

That 20-8 record could have easily been 20-8 or better, the way these guys finally kicked into high gear, especially Garnett...


The more and more i see , I begin to think Rondo didnt want Allen here anymore. And that was the biggest reason for Ray's crazy decision

I think Ray Allen is overrated.

He wasn't going to save our offense or drastically improve compared to Bradley's contributions. I'm sure you've taken it upon yourself like many fans to watch games the early part of the season; You would have seen Ray struggling to score in a half court offense, and having our team waste precious shot clock time to try to get him open on curls and screens.


I love Ray during fast breaks where Rondo passes to him as he trails, or when the defense isn't set and make a mistake leaving Ray wide open, but he's a liability now in a half court offense...For the Celtics anyway - we have too few that can dribble penetrate/attract help defense.

Bradley provides so much better man to man defense than Ray - That's a fact, and not really arguable. But on offense, Bradley was and is a more ideal compliment to Rondo. He can move without the ball - one of the best in the league, if you've watched the run. He's also shown flashes of a spot up shooter during the stretch. Bradley is cherished - but for good reason.

If Rondo could step up and shoot during Ray Allens running around screens , we wouldnt have to see 20 seconds wasted...

But Rondo cant shoot unless he wants too

Rondo is special but he is unique for this team

I believe he will suffer not having a shooter back there

Jason Terry is not a "shooter"

With Bradley starting and playing which celtic fans think will be around 30 minutes a game.. so yea rondo will strugle IMO

[syfy9]

With Bradley starting and playing which celtic fans think will be around 30 minutes a game.. so yea rondo will strugle IMO

IMO I think Rondo plays better with a healthy Bradley than with a healthy Ray.

The offense didn't and wouldn't run through Bradley the way it runs through Ray. Bradley is a top 5 cutter in this league. Rondo doesn't need a spot up shooter camping around the 3 point line like Ray - He'd be just content with Bradley making beautiful cuts.

[CelticHooligan3]

Terry will play enough minutes to make an impact man. Give it a rest. Your bordering on trolling. If your such a big ray allen fan he's now on the heat. So i would assume you would take your fandom to those blogs.

[nickagneta]

Just because Ray Allen left, doesn't mean you have to try desperately to tear his replacement down.

When Avery Bradley was on the court with KG as a starter our defense was the best in the NBA by a massive margin, like 87 PP100 and our offense also at its best for this team (though not as amazing).

Was he scoring all those points? Of course not, but he still had an impact on the team. That's what the game is about.

And this metric only confirms what the record showed. During this stretch of the season, a stretch in which 12 of the final 17 games we played were against playoff teams, the Celtics efficiency numbers were off the chart, better than when they played in 2007-08.

After the All-Star Game, a span of 34 games, Bradley shot over 52% from the field, he shot 50% from 3, he shot 86% from the line scored 10 PPG and played easily, the most dominating back court defense in the league.

What the team accomplished as a team and what Bradley accomplished as an individual player is amazing and far from over rated. After Lebron's finally winning his first title, the Celtics' stretch run after the ASG was probably the biggest story in the NBA this year.

[csfansince60s]

Do people even look at the boxscores. Watching the game is one thing, but when you take a look at the teams they beat, the players who performed and the record. Then compare it to the beginning of the season, you will start to see the real reason why that 20-8 was overrated.

Seriously, what is your problem man. Ray is gone. You attack people who attack Ray. In multiple topics you have professed that "people on here dont know basketball" blah blah.

And then you come and start a thread attacking Ray's replacement for no reason. And if you do not think Avery's defense, athleticism, long term potential, attitude and effort are something to look forward to, why are you even on this board?

The kid can play, if you can't see his immediate value and his potential long term value - you my friend are the one who doesn't know basketball.

I truly hope you are actually Ray Allen because at this point any other explanation would is just unhealthy.

...could be Flo or Jim Tanner?

[BballTim]

I for one disagree.  But more I really wonder what your point of this post is?  You think that if Ray Allen was playing in those games we would have had a better record?  Is that what you are implying?

I really don't know how anyone who watched the C's last year game in game out can say that the reason we got on our run was the lack of competition.  The reason we went on the run was KG got into shape and started playing like the monster he is and AB stepped up big time and added to the clamp down / lock down def.  We were way more athletic and aggressive on both ends and we played to our potential.

So exactly what are you complaining about?

Do people even look at the boxscores. Watching the game is one thing, but when you take a look at the teams they beat, the players who performed and the record. Then compare it to the beginning of the season, you will start to see the real reason why that 20-8 was overrated.

How many days did those 20-8 games come in? No matter the competition ANY team can beat you on ANY given day! A lot of factors of last season made the teams we face harder to defeat than just the players on that team! If it had nothing to do with AB, do you think Doc would have risked Ray's ego and would he change what had been working if it was? I guess Doc and everyone else (the people who really know and not some "fan") must be lying b/c they all credit the change to AB as the catalyst for the better play... mainly b/c of his defense! Before AB moved into the starting lineup KG and PP both had already begun to play much better... we still we losing! Are "you" telling me KG and PP were playing terrible until the last 28 games? Come on now!

The Celtics played the Lakers twice. Two big games for Celtics and Celtic fans right?

The first on February 9th 2012

We lost that game 88-87 .............1 POINT

Kevin Garnett was 6-23

Paul Pierce was 7-18 , 18 points ,did contribute with 7 assists

Ray Allen was a decent 9-20, 22 points

2nd game

Allen 6-13, 17 points, 6 assists

Pierce 4-14 , 13 points

Garnett, 7-11, 14 points , 0 attempts at the FT LINE




All i know is you continue to look at these games. The real reason the Celtics were not better was because these guys either were lazy, or not in shape...

So it made Ray look a lot worse...

That 20-8 record could have easily been 20-8 or better, the way these guys finally kicked into high gear, especially Garnett...


The more and more i see , I begin to think Rondo didnt want Allen here anymore. And that was the biggest reason for Ray's crazy decision

I think Ray Allen is overrated.

He wasn't going to save our offense or drastically improve compared to Bradley's contributions. I'm sure you've taken it upon yourself like many fans to watch games the early part of the season; You would have seen Ray struggling to score in a half court offense, and having our team waste precious shot clock time to try to get him open on curls and screens.


I love Ray during fast breaks where Rondo passes to him as he trails, or when the defense isn't set and make a mistake leaving Ray wide open, but he's a liability now in a half court offense...For the Celtics anyway - we have too few that can dribble penetrate/attract help defense.

Bradley provides so much better man to man defense than Ray - That's a fact, and not really arguable. But on offense, Bradley was and is a more ideal compliment to Rondo. He can move without the ball - one of the best in the league, if you've watched the run. He's also shown flashes of a spot up shooter during the stretch. Bradley is cherished - but for good reason.

If Rondo could step up and shoot during Ray Allens running around screens , we wouldnt have to see 20 seconds wasted...

But Rondo cant shoot unless he wants too

Rondo is special but he is unique for this team

I believe he will suffer not having a shooter back there

Jason Terry is not a "shooter"

With Bradley starting and playing which celtic fans think will be around 30 minutes a game.. so yea rondo will strugle IMO

  He certainly didn't struggle when Bradley started this year, in fact he had the longest double digit assist streak in years.

[RJ87]

I for one disagree.  But more I really wonder what your point of this post is?  You think that if Ray Allen was playing in those games we would have had a better record?  Is that what you are implying?

I really don't know how anyone who watched the C's last year game in game out can say that the reason we got on our run was the lack of competition.  The reason we went on the run was KG got into shape and started playing like the monster he is and AB stepped up big time and added to the clamp down / lock down def.  We were way more athletic and aggressive on both ends and we played to our potential.

So exactly what are you complaining about?

Do people even look at the boxscores. Watching the game is one thing, but when you take a look at the teams they beat, the players who performed and the record. Then compare it to the beginning of the season, you will start to see the real reason why that 20-8 was overrated.

How many days did those 20-8 games come in? No matter the competition ANY team can beat you on ANY given day! A lot of factors of last season made the teams we face harder to defeat than just the players on that team! If it had nothing to do with AB, do you think Doc would have risked Ray's ego and would he change what had been working if it was? I guess Doc and everyone else (the people who really know and not some "fan") must be lying b/c they all credit the change to AB as the catalyst for the better play... mainly b/c of his defense! Before AB moved into the starting lineup KG and PP both had already begun to play much better... we still we losing! Are "you" telling me KG and PP were playing terrible until the last 28 games? Come on now!

The Celtics played the Lakers twice. Two big games for Celtics and Celtic fans right?

The first on February 9th 2012

We lost that game 88-87 .............1 POINT

Kevin Garnett was 6-23

Paul Pierce was 7-18 , 18 points ,did contribute with 7 assists

Ray Allen was a decent 9-20, 22 points

2nd game

Allen 6-13, 17 points, 6 assists

Pierce 4-14 , 13 points

Garnett, 7-11, 14 points , 0 attempts at the FT LINE




All i know is you continue to look at these games. The real reason the Celtics were not better was because these guys either were lazy, or not in shape...

So it made Ray look a lot worse...

That 20-8 record could have easily been 20-8 or better, the way these guys finally kicked into high gear, especially Garnett...


The more and more i see , I begin to think Rondo didnt want Allen here anymore. And that was the biggest reason for Ray's crazy decision

I think Ray Allen is overrated.

He wasn't going to save our offense or drastically improve compared to Bradley's contributions. I'm sure you've taken it upon yourself like many fans to watch games the early part of the season; You would have seen Ray struggling to score in a half court offense, and having our team waste precious shot clock time to try to get him open on curls and screens.


I love Ray during fast breaks where Rondo passes to him as he trails, or when the defense isn't set and make a mistake leaving Ray wide open, but he's a liability now in a half court offense...For the Celtics anyway - we have too few that can dribble penetrate/attract help defense.

Bradley provides so much better man to man defense than Ray - That's a fact, and not really arguable. But on offense, Bradley was and is a more ideal compliment to Rondo. He can move without the ball - one of the best in the league, if you've watched the run. He's also shown flashes of a spot up shooter during the stretch. Bradley is cherished - but for good reason.

If Rondo could step up and shoot during Ray Allens running around screens , we wouldnt have to see 20 seconds wasted...

But Rondo cant shoot unless he wants too

Rondo is special but he is unique for this team

I believe he will suffer not having a shooter back there

Jason Terry is not a "shooter"

With Bradley starting and playing which celtic fans think will be around 30 minutes a game.. so yea rondo will strugle IMO

So when Ray was out injured and AB was starting in his place, was Rondo struggling? Negative.

In fact (you can go look at boxscores for this, as well) he was dominating and putting up assists like crazy. Actually, his streak for consecutive games with double figure assists - most of which came with Ray sidelined - is still active for the 12/13 season.

[Smitty77]

In Game 7, there were 7 players with better plus/minus ratios than Ray.

In Game 6, there were 5 better.

In Game 5, there were 5 with equal or better ratios.

In Game 4, there were 3 players with better ratios.

In Game 3, there were 5 players better.

In Game 2, there were 6 players with better ratios.

In Game 1, there were 7 players better.

All of that means NOTHING really, but I found it hilarious:-))

Smitty77

[KCattheStripe]

I, for one, think the 2008 championship team was overrated. I mean, look at all the teams they played. None of them were as good as that Celtics team.

[ausbacker]

Color me surprised that someone sporting Ray Allen in the username believes Avery Bradley to be overrated.

[rayallen1934]

I for one disagree.  But more I really wonder what your point of this post is?  You think that if Ray Allen was playing in those games we would have had a better record?  Is that what you are implying?

I really don't know how anyone who watched the C's last year game in game out can say that the reason we got on our run was the lack of competition.  The reason we went on the run was KG got into shape and started playing like the monster he is and AB stepped up big time and added to the clamp down / lock down def.  We were way more athletic and aggressive on both ends and we played to our potential.

So exactly what are you complaining about?

Do people even look at the boxscores. Watching the game is one thing, but when you take a look at the teams they beat, the players who performed and the record. Then compare it to the beginning of the season, you will start to see the real reason why that 20-8 was overrated.

How many days did those 20-8 games come in? No matter the competition ANY team can beat you on ANY given day! A lot of factors of last season made the teams we face harder to defeat than just the players on that team! If it had nothing to do with AB, do you think Doc would have risked Ray's ego and would he change what had been working if it was? I guess Doc and everyone else (the people who really know and not some "fan") must be lying b/c they all credit the change to AB as the catalyst for the better play... mainly b/c of his defense! Before AB moved into the starting lineup KG and PP both had already begun to play much better... we still we losing! Are "you" telling me KG and PP were playing terrible until the last 28 games? Come on now!

The Celtics played the Lakers twice. Two big games for Celtics and Celtic fans right?

The first on February 9th 2012

We lost that game 88-87 .............1 POINT

Kevin Garnett was 6-23

Paul Pierce was 7-18 , 18 points ,did contribute with 7 assists

Ray Allen was a decent 9-20, 22 points

2nd game

Allen 6-13, 17 points, 6 assists

Pierce 4-14 , 13 points

Garnett, 7-11, 14 points , 0 attempts at the FT LINE




All i know is you continue to look at these games. The real reason the Celtics were not better was because these guys either were lazy, or not in shape...

So it made Ray look a lot worse...

That 20-8 record could have easily been 20-8 or better, the way these guys finally kicked into high gear, especially Garnett...


The more and more i see , I begin to think Rondo didnt want Allen here anymore. And that was the biggest reason for Ray's crazy decision

I think Ray Allen is overrated.

He wasn't going to save our offense or drastically improve compared to Bradley's contributions. I'm sure you've taken it upon yourself like many fans to watch games the early part of the season; You would have seen Ray struggling to score in a half court offense, and having our team waste precious shot clock time to try to get him open on curls and screens.


I love Ray during fast breaks where Rondo passes to him as he trails, or when the defense isn't set and make a mistake leaving Ray wide open, but he's a liability now in a half court offense...For the Celtics anyway - we have too few that can dribble penetrate/attract help defense.

Bradley provides so much better man to man defense than Ray - That's a fact, and not really arguable. But on offense, Bradley was and is a more ideal compliment to Rondo. He can move without the ball - one of the best in the league, if you've watched the run. He's also shown flashes of a spot up shooter during the stretch. Bradley is cherished - but for good reason.

If Rondo could step up and shoot during Ray Allens running around screens , we wouldnt have to see 20 seconds wasted...

But Rondo cant shoot unless he wants too

Rondo is special but he is unique for this team

I believe he will suffer not having a shooter back there

Jason Terry is not a "shooter"

With Bradley starting and playing which celtic fans think will be around 30 minutes a game.. so yea rondo will strugle IMO

So when Ray was out injured and AB was starting in his place, was Rondo struggling? Negative.

In fact (you can go look at boxscores for this, as well) he was dominating and putting up assists like crazy. Actually, his streak for consecutive games with double figure assists - most of which came with Ray sidelined - is still active for the 12/13 season.

It helps that Pierce wasnt shooting 3-17 anymore as he was when Ray was playing well

easy to rack up assists when your guys finally make shots

[rayallen1934]

In Game 7, there were 7 players with better plus/minus ratios than Ray.

In Game 6, there were 5 better.

In Game 5, there were 5 with equal or better ratios.

In Game 4, there were 3 players with better ratios.

In Game 3, there were 5 players better.

In Game 2, there were 6 players with better ratios.

In Game 1, there were 7 players better.

All of that means NOTHING really, but I found it hilarious:-))

Smitty77

i find it hilarious that you miss the part where i said STARTERS

[Lord of Mikawa]

This was per John Hollinger (pretty respected EXPERT on NBA stats):

The Celtics outscored opponents by about 15 points per 100 possessions when Bradley played. When the 19th pick in the 2010 draft sat, Boston was outscored by more than four points, for a nearly twenty-point swing. When a shoulder injury forced Bradley to the bench ten games into the playoffs, Boston lost a ton.

Waiting on a response, ever so patiently, from all you Ray Allen worshippers:-)))

Smitty77

Too many factors for me to even care about. Who did they beat? Did they blowout teams...i mean its a silly stat.

In the playoffs, Ray Allen was a decent in that category, and

in the heat series better than anybody in the starting lineup in that category


does it mean anything?

So the stats ony matter when they are in Ray Allen's favor? F*** that.