The Bradley 20-8 Run was overrated

[DinoRadjaLives]

Folks we sound like the crazy girl that you break up with that keeps calling. Let it go Ray is gone. To quote Bill Belicheck, " Let's worry about the players that are here"!!!!

[Smitty77]

Efficiency Ratings for all NBA Players in the 2012 playoffs:

Rondo: 3rd
KG: 7th
PP: 25th
Bass: 52
Ray the "traitor:" 70th


Smitty77

[KJR]

reasons for the 2nd half run

1 - Bass for JO (huge)

2 - Motivated, in-shape KG at the 5

3 - Bradley defense, random offense

4 - Steadier Rondo, fewer TO's (several single digit TO games in the playoffs almost unprecedented for this squad)

5 - Pierce: more freedom on offense with Ray out


a couple observations at the time: the first time it became obvious to everyone that a change needed to be made in the starting lineup was a third of the way into the season; I think it was the first Orlando game; Ray was out and Pietrus started; the team played monster defense and won by a huge amount; it was unprecedented because up to that point the team had been playing badly, and Orlando with Dwight was considered a contender; the immediate contrast with Pietrus in the lineup was striking; Doc later said that the initial plan was to move Pietrus into the starting lineup; but Pietrus had continual knee problems (and then the concussion) and that opened the door for Bradley; Bradley also had a breakout game against Orlando when Nelson could barely get the ball up the floor; all of a sudden the C's had a new weapon and a possible way to beat some good teams they had previously been struggling against

another aha moment was a random play in the second half of the season: Pierce was dribbling on the right wing, Bradley was deep in the right corner; as Pierce dribbled, he was pressure and the ball hit off his leg and squirted for the sideline; Bradley  covered the distance in a flash, dove and tipped the ball off his trailing defender out of bounds and the C's retained possession

it was a hustle play that would never show up on the box score, but it was an amazing play to save a possession and it's a play that Ray would never have made at this point in his career

I think these things were obvious to the team, and I'm sure it caused some friction because they liked Ray but they also wanted some changes to be made to give the team the best chance to win

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

We beat the Heat 3 times out of 4 this season, only the first game we lost, the 4th nobody was trying. Ray is gone, there's no point in showing Ray that we changed now that there's no going back. Just live with it and AB is not overrated.

is he overrated? NO

is he overrated on here? YES

[fairweatherfan]

Bradley played a big role in that run, and a lot of stats (especially team defensive stats) support that.  It was great to see him blossom over that stretch, and I think he's got a bright future.

But Bradley, and that good stretch of games, are being overrated to a degree - a lot of people are talking about him like a sure thing to contribute at that level next year.  He's still just 21 and was playing out of his mind some nights.  And he'll be coming off multiple surgeries. 

That's why we're looking for more backcourt depth - we can't say for sure what Bradley will give us next year.

[chambers]

OP hasn't mentioned defense in one part of his title or original discussion. Avery Bradley has game changing defense, much better than Ray Allen's defense, and although I love Ray, Avery Bradley and Kevin Garnett's play are arguably what got this team into gear defensively.
Defense wins championships.

[OsirusCeltics]

OP hasn't mentioned defense in one part of his title or original discussion. Avery Bradley has game changing defense, much better than Ray Allen's defense, and although I love Ray, Avery Bradley and Kevin Garnett's play are arguably what got this team into gear defensively.
Defense wins championships.

Bradley has game changing defense
Ray Allen has game changing defense....for the other team

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

OP hasn't mentioned defense in one part of his title or original discussion. Avery Bradley has game changing defense, much better than Ray Allen's defense, and although I love Ray, Avery Bradley and Kevin Garnett's play are arguably what got this team into gear defensively.
Defense wins championships.

Bradley has game changing defense
Ray Allen has game changing defense....for the other team

^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[rayallen1934]

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112BOS1.HTM


When Ray is on the floor, the team is winning and would be 29-16


When Bradley is on the floor, the team would be 31-29


Some of those would be skewed because some games he didnt get to contribute at all

But the point is Ray was 29-16 64% , which is better than anyone else's in the starting unit

Well Him and Bass are both at 64% Bass having a huge difference
38-21 Record


So you see that 20-8 is overrated, and this is my biggest finding of that reason

When Bass was inserted, the team looked amazing

[rayallen1934]

OP hasn't mentioned defense in one part of his title or original discussion. Avery Bradley has game changing defense, much better than Ray Allen's defense, and although I love Ray, Avery Bradley and Kevin Garnett's play are arguably what got this team into gear defensively.
Defense wins championships.

did i mention Bradley was useless? or worse than Ray in defense? NO, I said he could easily not start and be just as effective

[blink]

Why don't you look at the top 5 man units, which i feel is a better way to describe all 5 players as a team

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112BOS2.HTM


The top starting 5 was Rondo-Bradley-Pierce-Bass-Garnett
at 78.5%.  

Doesn't really help your case.

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112BOS1.HTM


When Ray is on the floor, the team is winning and would be 29-16


When Bradley is on the floor, the team would be 31-29


Some of those would be skewed because some games he didnt get to contribute at all

But the point is Ray was 29-16 64% , which is better than anyone else's in the starting unit

Well Him and Bass are both at 64% Bass having a huge difference
38-21 Record


So you see that 20-8 is overrated, and this is my biggest finding of that reason

When Bass was inserted, the team looked amazing

[rayallen1934]

Why don't you look at the top 5 man units, which i feel is a better way to describe all 5 players as a team

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112BOS2.HTM


The top starting 5 was Rondo-Bradley-Pierce-Bass-Garnett
at 78.5%.  

Doesn't really help your case.

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112BOS1.HTM


When Ray is on the floor, the team is winning and would be 29-16


When Bradley is on the floor, the team would be 31-29


Some of those would be skewed because some games he didnt get to contribute at all

But the point is Ray was 29-16 64% , which is better than anyone else's in the starting unit

Well Him and Bass are both at 64% Bass having a huge difference
38-21 Record


So you see that 20-8 is overrated, and this is my biggest finding of that reason

When Bass was inserted, the team looked amazing

Does it mean that Bradley was playing overwhelmingly well ? NO

Those 5 man unit stats can be all over the place

Pierce could be on the same unit as Ray and be playing like total crap, killing that stat, and Pierce was doing that in the start of the season as was Garnett.

So throw your useless stat out the window


This stat proves one thing. When Ray is on the court the Celtics are winning, as it shows with Bass.....it shows with Garnett and Pierce also

but the point is made.

[blink]

Look if you are going to try to cherry pick stats out of the blue to support your weak position, then I feel I have just as much right to use a more RELEVANT portion of the stats that you are quoting. 

I don't believe that anyone here is saying that AB will be a hall of famer, what we all are saying is that with AB in the starting lineup they are a better team.  The stats (from your referenced website btw) prove that the best starting lineup was with BRADLEY not with RA.

You are making everyone's point against you without us even having to try.  lol.  I feel absolutely that you are just wrong and you are trying to grasp at straws to support your view.

Sorry your man got traded.  I wish RA would have stayed too.   But you can't call foul on using the 5 man stats.  They absolutely debunk your theory (myth).

I knew I should have stayed away from this thread haha.

Why don't you look at the top 5 man units, which i feel is a better way to describe all 5 players as a team

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112BOS2.HTM


The top starting 5 was Rondo-Bradley-Pierce-Bass-Garnett
at 78.5%.  

Doesn't really help your case.

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112BOS1.HTM


When Ray is on the floor, the team is winning and would be 29-16


When Bradley is on the floor, the team would be 31-29


Some of those would be skewed because some games he didnt get to contribute at all

But the point is Ray was 29-16 64% , which is better than anyone else's in the starting unit

Well Him and Bass are both at 64% Bass having a huge difference
38-21 Record


So you see that 20-8 is overrated, and this is my biggest finding of that reason

When Bass was inserted, the team looked amazing

Does it mean that Bradley was playing overwhelmingly well ? NO

Those 5 man unit stats can be all over the place

Pierce could be on the same unit as Ray and be playing like total crap, killing that stat, and Pierce was doing that in the start of the season as was Garnett.

So throw your useless stat out the window


This stat proves one thing. When Ray is on the court the Celtics are winning, as it shows with Bass.....it shows with Garnett and Pierce also

but the point is made.

[blink]

Also, I have to say, that I am never one that thinks stats really tell the whole story.  I think with AB a lot gets lost on the stats.  The hustle plays, the slowing down the opposing point guards starting their offense all has an positive impact for the C's that I don't think really gets quantified very well anyways.

My view is that the C's played with more energy, effort, heart and aggressiveness when AB was starting.  Part of that comes from Bass in the lineup as well, adding further to the improved efficiency and improved athleticism.  I don't need stats to tell me what I saw.  I saw over and over how well the starting 5 of RR, AB, PP, BB, and KG played.  I don't know why anyone would infer anything else.  Look at the record.  Listen to the players comments...it was obvious.

[rayallen1934]

Look if you are going to try to cherry pick stats out of the blue to support your weak position, then I feel I have just as much right to use a more RELEVANT portion of the stats that you are quoting. 

I don't believe that anyone here is saying that AB will be a hall of famer, what we all are saying is that with AB in the starting lineup they are a better team.  The stats (from your referenced website btw) prove that the best starting lineup was with BRADLEY not with RA.

You are making everyone's point against you without us even having to try.  lol.  I feel absolutely that you are just wrong and you are trying to grasp at straws to support your view.

Sorry your man got traded.  I wish RA would have stayed too.   But you can't call foul on using the 5 man stats.  They absolutely debunk your theory (myth).

I knew I should have stayed away from this thread haha.

Why don't you look at the top 5 man units, which i feel is a better way to describe all 5 players as a team

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112BOS2.HTM


The top starting 5 was Rondo-Bradley-Pierce-Bass-Garnett
at 78.5%.  

Doesn't really help your case.

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112BOS1.HTM


When Ray is on the floor, the team is winning and would be 29-16


When Bradley is on the floor, the team would be 31-29


Some of those would be skewed because some games he didnt get to contribute at all

But the point is Ray was 29-16 64% , which is better than anyone else's in the starting unit

Well Him and Bass are both at 64% Bass having a huge difference
38-21 Record


So you see that 20-8 is overrated, and this is my biggest finding of that reason

When Bass was inserted, the team looked amazing

Does it mean that Bradley was playing overwhelmingly well ? NO

Those 5 man unit stats can be all over the place

Pierce could be on the same unit as Ray and be playing like total crap, killing that stat, and Pierce was doing that in the start of the season as was Garnett.

So throw your useless stat out the window


This stat proves one thing. When Ray is on the court the Celtics are winning, as it shows with Bass.....it shows with Garnett and Pierce also

but the point is made.

My point is that its not Bradley who made the biggest difference in the record

it was Pierce , and Garnett playing better, and the addition of Bass

Those stats are proved...

When Ray is on the court the team would have won 29 games and lost 16

the times Bradley on the court they would have won 31 and lost 29

This points to one conclusion, that the team played better and helped win games

How can you not see that?

Sometimes your other players just sucked, and in Ray Allen's case, Pierce was attrocious and Garnett was very mediocre.


This doesnt mean i dont like Bradley or Bradley starting.

Im pointing out that the teams success and failure wasnt because of Allen...

It was either because of Rondo's decision not to want to play with Allen

Or Pierce and Garnetts very slow start as accustomed to there great performances when Bradley played

It doesnt mean Bradley made them play better, it meant that they finally did play better.