WORKOUT LIST

[arambone]

Could be, but this worries me:

Taylor
Age: 23
Wingspan: 6'6.25"
Standing reach: 8'3.5"

Wroten
Age: 19
Wingspan: 6'9"
Standing reach: 8'5"

At 212 pounds, Taylor is very undersized for a small forward. Good size for a shooting guard, but lacking the ball handling, passing, and shot creation skills.

Wroten is 1.25" shorter, a few pounds lighter, and longer, in addition to being 19.

Taylor doesn't even really seem to project to starter, long-term.
Wroten has top 10-12 potential in this draft, even with a broken jump shot.

[Evantime34]

Could be, but this worries me:

Taylor
Age: 23
Wingspan: 6'6.25"
Standing reach: 8'3.5"

Wroten
Age: 19
Wingspan: 6'9"
Standing reach: 8'5"

At 212 pounds, Taylor is very undersized for a small forward. Good size for a shooting guard, but lacking the ball handling, passing, and shot creation skills.

Wroten is 1.25" shorter, a few pounds lighter, and longer, in addition to being 19.

Taylor doesn't even really seem to project to starter, long-term.
Wroten has top 10-12 potential in this draft, even with a broken jump shot.

It really depends what you are lookng for. Taylor is a better defender and shooter right now, he can play right away. Wroten has a high upside but is probably at least two years away from contributing.

[arambone]

I don't know about Wroten being two years away.

He's been playing with NBA players like Brandon Roy, Nate Robinson, and Jamal Crawford since he was 14 or 15. He's training with them once again this summer.



He can already get to the rim and score at an elite NBA level, he already has average at worst defensive ability at two positions, with upside to dominate defensively. He has elite level passing vision, but just needs to take less risks. He's an above average rebounder for a 2 guard, never mind for a point guard.

He was first team freshmen All-American, and a finalist for freshman of the year.

Feb. 15, 2012

ST. LOUIS - Husky freshman guard Tony Wroten is among five finalist for the 2012 Wayman Tisdale Award, which is given to the National Freshman of the Year, it was announced today by the U.S. Basketball Writers Association.

Wroten (Seattle, Wash./Garfield HS) joins a distinguish list that includes Indiana's Cody Zeller, Duke's Austin Rivers and Kentucky teammates Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.

He dominated every all-star team he was on, from the USA U-18 team to the Jordan Brand Classic.

He's basically dominated at every level, and I think he's held to a different standard, like Rudy Gay was when he got drafted.

Wroten's been famous since he was 14. If he came out of nowhere, and put up the same numbers and athleticism at Washington, the draft world would be drooling over his elite potential.

Instead, since he's been analyzed for so long, people act like he's a 22 year old senior, and what you see is what you get.

Rudy Gay got punished in his draft year for not dominating exactly as much as scouts thought he was capable of. So with this twisted logic, Adam Morrison, Hakeem Warrick, Randy Foye, and Sheldon Williams were picked over him.

Tony Wroten didn't dominate to quite the degree scouts thought he was capable of, so he is being pushed down draft boards.

He's going to absolutely dominate summer leagues, and he's going to be an immediate contributor for whoever drafts him.

Wroten has the skills, the experience, the pedigree, and most importantly, the swagger to step right into a rotation.

Just like Rivers, only different skills, and a year younger. Same NBA genetics, same upbringing around NBA players, same early celebrity, same production their freshman years.

Wroten just made the mistake of staying home in the Pac 10, on a team without anybody else who could create their own shot, and big men who can't catch.

[clover]

Wroten shot 58% for his FTs and 16% from the college 3.

[arambone]

Take a look at Rondo's college stats:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/37763

He shot 58% from the line as a freshman, and worse as a sophomore.

Also, Wroten got to the free throw line more in his one year than Rondo did in his 68 collegiate games COMBINED.

If you liked how aggressive Rondo was in getting to the line in the playoffs, you'll love Wroten doing that every single game he plays.

Rondo was 6'1" and 171 pounds in college.
Wroten is 6'5" barefoot, and already weighs 205 of pure muscle, with room for more weight.

Wroten is at least as far along as Rondo was after his sophomore year, when twenty something teams passed on him because he couldn't shoot and had an attitude.

Wroten would be the true point guard backup that Rondo hasn't had, keeping the pedal to the metal offensively and defensively. He would also be a great scoring option for the second unit, since he can create his own shot off the dribble with the best of them.

He can also back up Bradley, and even Paul sometimes, depending on the match-up.

As Wroten improves his pull-up jumper from 10, 12, 15, 18 feet, he will become more and more unguardable, especially since most point guards and shooting guards are at a size disadvantage.

Drafting Wroten would also make it easy to draft somebody like Marcus Denmon in the second round, a pure 2 guard in a point guard's body, and as good a shooter as Doron Lamb.

When twenty something teams passed on Rondo, they were obviously myopic in their analysis and projections, and they underestimated everything (besides shooting) that Rondo did well.

Wroten is going to make a lot of teams look stupid. I just hope the Celtics are not one of them.

This league belongs to athletic guards who can drive to the rim.
 

[Atzar]

I understand that you like Wroten, and want us to draft him.  I wouldn't mind it either.  But you're treating him like much more of a sure thing than he actually is at this point. 

If he sees early playing time, you're looking at a guard lineup featuring Rondo, Bradley and Wroten.  That's a tremendous group defensively, but offensively it just won't work because none of them have developed a reliable jumpshot to this point.  Rondo has improved, but he's simply improved from 'awful' to 'mediocre' - he's still not an outside threat.  Bradley showed encouraging signs, but keep in mind that defenses still play way off of him.  Wroten will be the worst shooter of the three.  And since his game is to attack the rim, he'll be driving into the paint against four defenders.  He'll be a turnover machine.

It's also not like the kid is just a few thousand repetitions away from being an average-to-better shooter.  His mechanics are poor at this stage, so we're likely looking at years of work before (and if) he ever gets to that level.  This isn't like a Derrick Rose scenario, where he's not known as a shooter coming into the league but the form is already pretty good.  With Wroten, we'd need to build him from the ground up. 

Also, we can't overlook the fact that he's used to dominating the ball.  You point out that he shows well at events and all-star games.  I say it's easy for a ball-dominant player to play well in a setting where defense is optional.  But he won't be able to do that with Boston.  Rondo is going to get 36 minutes per night at the 1, and in the playoffs that's going to go up.  That means that if Wroten wants to play more than 12 minutes per night, he's going to have to learn how to play without the ball.  He can learn the cutting ability that Bradley has picked up, but to be a good off-ball player you really need to be able to shoot.  Again, that's a process of several years with this kid. 

Like I said, I'd be pretty happy with a Wroten pick.  He's the type of gutsy, high-upside selection that I think we should be making in this draft.  But he is a HUGE project, a questionable fit at best with Boston, and unfortunately his best years in the NBA may very well be when his rookie contract is up and he's wearing a color other than Green.  That's just something to keep in mind.

[Yogi]

Tony might very well have potential, but comparing him to Rondo is laughable.  Rondo is a living legend.  Compare him to Iman Shumpert or someone like that.

[arambone]

I'm not saying he'll be Rondo, I'm just saying he could be great value in the 20s.

He could easily become a regular all-star.

I'd compare him to Tyreke Evans, who would make a quality 6th man on the Celtics. Except that Wroten can really see the court and make the pass for the bucket.

Rondo plays his best ball when he is instinctive, like he was after Scal gave him that pep talk early in the playoffs.

Just getting into the lane creates chaos, especially when dealing with a passer with great vision like Rondo and Wroten both have. Yes, their vision is comparable. Despite Wroten's excessive turnovers trying to be a hero.

Wroten would definitely be a "best player available" pick, and he wouldn't be an ideal 3rd guard behind Rondo and Bradley. But nobody sitting at 21 would be ideal.

Wroten would definitely be a value pick, and there's certainly a good argument against taking him.

But Pierce is getting long in the tooth, and isn't going to be beating his man to the bucket as much going forward. Rondo is the only other Celtic who can drive to the hoop consistently, and he often avoids going right into contact and drawing the foul.

Some 2 guards score by shooting outside, some are better at driving and scoring.

Rondo likes to play uptempo, and Wroten can definitely get out and excel in those situations. When Rondo and Bradley played pressure D and pushed the pace on the break, they were often at their best. Wroten would enable the Celtics to do that for 48 minutes a game if desired.

Bradley wouldn't need to guard the tall 2s, and Bradley wouldn't be relied upon to be a playmaker for his teammates.

Another sharpshooting guard would definitely be needed, but Wroten would be as big a talent addition to the team you could hope for at 21-22, as well as solid trade bait for the next Garnett level FA superstar.

[Yogi]

Did Royce White actually even work out for us?

[arambone]

I don't think the Celtics worked him out. It's interesting that Danny was sitting next to McHale at the Combine when they were watching White.

"I think the thing he does is he makes you — you don't want to get polarized on him and get beat. He can help facilitate that. So it becomes very difficult.
"But he's a heck of a basketball player. I was talking to a pro scout today who's seen him four or five times and just said he's got some [Kevin] McHale stuff inside. Right now I wouldn't consider him a great shooter outside, but he just does things to help his team win."

http://www.nba.com/draft/2012/prospects/royce-white/

[peachbucket]

Take a look at Rondo's college stats:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/37763

He shot 58% from the line as a freshman, and worse as a sophomore.

Also, Wroten got to the free throw line more in his one year than Rondo did in his 68 collegiate games COMBINED.

If you liked how aggressive Rondo was in getting to the line in the playoffs, you'll love Wroten doing that every single game he plays.

Rondo was 6'1" and 171 pounds in college.
Wroten is 6'5" barefoot, and already weighs 205 of pure muscle, with room for more weight.

Wroten is at least as far along as Rondo was after his sophomore year, when twenty something teams passed on him because he couldn't shoot and had an attitude.

Wroten would be the true point guard backup that Rondo hasn't had, keeping the pedal to the metal offensively and defensively. He would also be a great scoring option for the second unit, since he can create his own shot off the dribble with the best of them.

He can also back up Bradley, and even Paul sometimes, depending on the match-up.

As Wroten improves his pull-up jumper from 10, 12, 15, 18 feet, he will become more and more unguardable, especially since most point guards and shooting guards are at a size disadvantage.

Drafting Wroten would also make it easy to draft somebody like Marcus Denmon in the second round, a pure 2 guard in a point guard's body, and as good a shooter as Doron Lamb.

When twenty something teams passed on Rondo, they were obviously myopic in their analysis and projections, and they underestimated everything (besides shooting) that Rondo did well.

Wroten is going to make a lot of teams look stupid. I just hope the Celtics are not one of them.

This league belongs to athletic guards who can drive to the rim.
 

Spot on my man...Wroten and White in Green would make me very happy.

[T-LoDaniels]

I'm not saying he'll be Rondo, I'm just saying he could be great value in the 20s.

He could easily become a regular all-star.

I'd compare him to Tyreke Evans, who would make a quality 6th man on the Celtics. Except that Wroten can really see the court and make the pass for the bucket.

Rondo plays his best ball when he is instinctive, like he was after Scal gave him that pep talk early in the playoffs.

Just getting into the lane creates chaos, especially when dealing with a passer with great vision like Rondo and Wroten both have. Yes, their vision is comparable. Despite Wroten's excessive turnovers trying to be a hero.

Wroten would definitely be a "best player available" pick, and he wouldn't be an ideal 3rd guard behind Rondo and Bradley. But nobody sitting at 21 would be ideal.

Wroten would definitely be a value pick, and there's certainly a good argument against taking him.

But Pierce is getting long in the tooth, and isn't going to be beating his man to the bucket as much going forward. Rondo is the only other Celtic who can drive to the hoop consistently, and he often avoids going right into contact and drawing the foul.

Some 2 guards score by shooting outside, some are better at driving and scoring.

Rondo likes to play uptempo, and Wroten can definitely get out and excel in those situations. When Rondo and Bradley played pressure D and pushed the pace on the break, they were often at their best. Wroten would enable the Celtics to do that for 48 minutes a game if desired.

Bradley wouldn't need to guard the tall 2s, and Bradley wouldn't be relied upon to be a playmaker for his teammates.

Another sharpshooting guard would definitely be needed, but Wroten would be as big a talent addition to the team you could hope for at 21-22, as well as solid trade bait for the next Garnett level FA superstar.

I'm a big fan of Wroten as well, but I think you're overvaluing him slightly. First of all, his vision is NOT comparable to Rondo. He has decent court vision yes, but Rondo is arguably the best passing playmaker in the league. To compare an unproven rookie with him is far-fetched. Secondly, unlike Rondo, Wroten seems to have limited basketball IQ. I honestly don't know if he'll be able to run a team like the Celtics whose identity is executing complex plays.

[jdub1660]

Jenkins and Lamb (Doron) are top 5 pure shooters in this draft.  Jenkins, I think is the best shooter by far.  I really hope we pick him up in the first round.

I would be ecstatic to get Jenkins
As I was with picking Marshon Brooks :/ instantly traded for a pair of stilts to sit on the bench

[CFAN38]

added Jae Crowder to list

[peachbucket]

Can someone please tell me if except for Gerald Green, Ainge has ever drafted a player he hasnt worked out.