Metta World Peace / Artest Cheap Shot (merged threads)

[GreenFaith1819]

My take on the whole thing is that Metta intended to do it....that is my reasoning behind my stance on the whole thing.

Plus, I'm guessing that most OKC fans think that 7 is too light.

What if that was KG, Ray or Pierce writhing on the floor instead of Harden?

[ballin]

7 games is ok, but unfortunately I just don't think that until someone gets punished GOOD will some of these repeat offenders get it in their heads - "Wow. They nailed Metta. I'd better NOT give someone a cheapshot."

Once a player has a psychological fear that they must behave, they will behave.

I actually don't think harsh punishment works as a deterrent like you think it will.

I disagree. Harsh penalties aren't good deterrents only when the offender doesn't think he'll incur the penalty. For example, the death sentence has been proven to be an ineffective deterrent because 1) the murderer thinks he can get away with it, 2) it's a crime of passion and he's not thinking at all, or 3) he's mentally handicapped (mentally handicapped individuals account for a surprisingly high number of violent crimes).

However, punching someone on national television is pretty much the opposite of that. Nobody has the illusion that they're going to get away with it, and while players might get angry during a basketball game almost never do they get angry enough to legitimately lose all self-control. Comically enough, it's the 3rd factor which would probably cause Artest to fail to be deterred. But for 99% of the other players who don't have serious mental issues, yeah, a stiff penalty would be an ineffective deterrent.

To illustrate the point, we can make plenty of comparisons to similar situations. The easiest point to make is to just look at how many fist fights there are in hockey, versus how many fist fights there are in the NBA. Hockey has a TON more, and the reason why is obvious! They don't get in nearly as much trouble for it. They're just responding to the incentives, whether they're conscious of it or not.


Bottom line: it's human nature to respond to incentives and disincentives, and you should never bet against human nature. Harsher penalties would work.

[Celtics4ever]

It's official Stern is a Laker Fan, seven games, you got to be kidding me.

  But looking at his suspension history, its clear he's changed a lot.

Really it seems that he is still up to his old tricks.   Elbowing someone in the head is really positive change.  So non violent now do you realize this is probably the most dangerous blow he has thrown, illegal in MMA and boxing?

[GreenFaith1819]

For IP - my guess is that you take Metta's past good into account for your reasoning (5 games).

Yes - he has done a lot of good.

But - for me - I just think that it was more important for LA to win THAT game - at all..ANY..cost. If OKC had won, it would've been a sweep vs LA - a psychological blow to THEM and a boost for OKC, with their recent struggles and all.

Hence, Metta put it on the line.

Now? OKC is struggling vs SAC??

On top of their recent struggles vs their opponents, NOW they have a key player whom they have no idea of when he will return. Plus? More minutes for Westbrook and Durant (whom Harden BOTH subbed for).

You often hear players say "They'll do anything" to win. I really believe some would do just that.

[Smitty77]

When Ron really hurts someone and perhaps ends his career, I don't want to hear from any of you who have argued that the suspension should have been less (based on all his great community work).  All that great work and giving was quickly undone in literally one second on Sunday.  Try explaining to your young child after he or she sees that reply that he won the Community Award.  Please.

David Stern deserves the bad that is likely to happen as a result of this very lenient suspension.  I pity the next poor victim that could lose his livelihood or his life.

Laugh at me now.

Smitty77

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I know the actions aren't comparable but those who talk about people doing a lot of good things...

don't the same priest who molest kids give over all their wealth and live like the poor and also help people?

What I'm saying is, even the bad people do good things! Doesn't make them good!


Say if I murder someone but donate all my time and money to charity after that, does that then make me a good person?

I don't think Artest is a bad person but he definitely has mental issues to the point where the team (fakers or league) need to make him have counseling!

7 games is okay I guess because it goes into the playoffs but I just don't get how you can take out an obviously defenseless person (shot to the head at that) and get so little time! What makes me most mad is he says it was an accident... sure it was Ron!  

[bfrombleacher]

Great, now I'm picturing Kobe wearing one glove filled with Vaseline to keep it soft for the ladies.

Wow. You said that. Haha.

[Kuberski1]

Nonsense.....he got off way too light.   I didn't think it would be anything less than 10 games, and personally thought it should have been the entire POs.   Absolute crap!

[SHAQATTACK]

stern...does it again.... lets a screw ball off the hook for a mere 7 games .  Hardin has to carry his injury the rest of his life.

[Adelaide Celt]

Pathetic but we all knew a soft penalty was coming.

Let's see if anybody from Oklahoma feels inclined to add on their own additional punishment in the 2nd round. Sadly the once great Perk obviously doesn't.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

So, 7 games, artest might be back healthy before Hardin is, if he ever is.......he could get dizzy and naseaous anytime he exerts himself...a concussion......for just standing too close to the uncaged animal.....too bad we couldn't boycott the lakers......how much time before artest gets another victim..? Stern, nba comissioner.....shouldn't his name be UN-Stern..?

[Meadowlark_Scal]

This weak punishment tells everyone in the league that it is a GOOD idea to take out their star, using a sub-par bench player, because then you will only get a short suspension, and in 7 games, you could then win the CHAMPIONSHIP...Hey, 7 games, what an ideal trade..!!!

[myteamisbetterthanyours]

I know the actions aren't comparable but those who talk about people doing a lot of good things...

don't the same priest who molest kids give over all their wealth and live like the poor and also help people?

What I'm saying is, even the bad people do good things! Doesn't make them good!


Say if I murder someone but donate all my time and money to charity after that, does that then make me a good person?

I don't think Artest is a bad person but he definitely has mental issues to the point where the team (fakers or league) need to make him have counseling!

7 games is okay I guess because it goes into the playoffs but I just don't get how you can take out an obviously defenseless person (shot to the head at that) and get so little time! What makes me most mad is he says it was an accident... sure it was Ron!  

If you promise to never kill again then yes, you can change and be a good person.

And it's not really an issue between being a good or bad person.  Everyone does good and bad things.  Nobody does only good things, and nobody does only bad things.  So you can't judge it so black and white. 

A lot of the bad things people do are actually a biproduct of their mental stability.. Priests molest kids because they promised along time ago to be celibate.. People are not supposed to be celibate.. thats why we have organs in our bodies that are meant for procreation.  The fact that Priests are not allowed to have sex creates confusion in the brain.. it makes them think differently, and act in ways that they shouldn't.. People seem to think that Ron Artest is crazy.. He might be.. and it makes sense given his history.. but he is [dang] sure trying to change and its evident. 

I look at this incident as a slip up on his path towards righteousness, which he is so desperately trying to achieve.. You don't just change your name to World Peace for no reason.  I love that name by the way, its a positive name in a world filled with so much negativity and hate.  Hate towards people we don't even personally know.. Hate towards things we don't even understand.

We are all people.  But we are all born into different situations.. You can't judge a person unless you've grown up how they've grown up.  Unless you've seen the things they've seen.  People don't just do things.. Theres always a reason or a back story to why people do bad things.

I see life like a scale of sorts, people just need to try.. key word TRY to have their good deeds outweigh their bad ones.  Ron Artest is atleast moving towards that direction..  Don't demonize him.

And one more thing... He who has not sinned, cast the first stone. 

[indeedproceed]

For IP - my guess is that you take Metta's past good into account for your reasoning (5 games).

Yes - he has done a lot of good.

But - for me - I just think that it was more important for LA to win THAT game - at all..ANY..cost. If OKC had won, it would've been a sweep vs LA - a psychological blow to THEM and a boost for OKC, with their recent struggles and all.

1) I'm not taking into account any charity work or whatever that he's done. I think he did mean to duff Harden, I think it was not premeditated. I put it as a little less severe than Bynum's body check of Barea, again assuming Harden didn't miss any games. Since he's missing some, I have no problem with 7, and if harden missed a playoff game, I'd have less problem with more.

2) Artest is not nearly as devious as you're giving him credit for. What you're talking about is a consciOus decision. It was an idiotic reflex.

[indeedproceed]

I know the actions aren't comparable but those who talk about people doing a lot of good things...

don't the same priest who molest kids give over all their wealth and live like the poor and also help people?

What I'm saying is, even the bad people do good things! Doesn't make them good!

I can't believe you just said that. I mean, wow. I was annoyed at all the holier than thou comments about Artests name, when I think he's just a guy who cares and puts his money where his mouth is, but has really bad impulse control.

You say 'well it's not the same thing but..' with priests molesting kids? It's like saying hitler started charities but killed millions of people.

No, it's not the same thing, and it's not even relevant. Murderers? Killing again? Molesting kids but giving to charities? Come on, Internet!