Rebounding Frustration at its peak

[LooseCannon]

For better or worse, Doc is going to prioritize being able to handle the Celtics style of pick and roll defense over rebounding ability.  Personnel decisions should keep this in mind.

[Fafnir]

For better or worse, Doc is going to prioritize being able to handle the Celtics style of pick and roll defense over rebounding ability.  Personnel decisions should keep this in mind.

The defensive style has little to do with our rebounding woes. We were very good at rebounding the first two years of this current core.

[theswitch]

For better or worse, Doc is going to prioritize being able to handle the Celtics style of pick and roll defense over rebounding ability.  Personnel decisions should keep this in mind.

The defensive style has little to do with our rebounding woes. We were very good at rebounding the first two years of this current core.

That year, a younger KG averaged 9.2, our starting center (Perk) averaged 6.1. Outside of a younger Pierce averaging 5.1, nobody else was over 5 a game. There were a couple guys like Powe, Baby and Posey who averaged 3-4 rebounds a game, but that's not really different than this year. Compare that to KG at 8.3, Pierce at 5.4, Bass at 6 and you've got the same production out of the top 3 guys. Then, Wilcox, JO and Pietrus are all in the 3-5 range. The only difference I see is that we no longer have those 3-5 guys because they are hurt, but this wasn't a good rebounding team all year.

I think there's an undeniable relationship between defensive rotations and rebounding.

[Fafnir]

For better or worse, Doc is going to prioritize being able to handle the Celtics style of pick and roll defense over rebounding ability.  Personnel decisions should keep this in mind.

The defensive style has little to do with our rebounding woes. We were very good at rebounding the first two years of this current core.

That year, a younger KG averaged 9.2, our starting center (Perk) averaged 6.1. Outside of a younger Pierce averaging 5.1, nobody else was over 5 a game. There were a couple guys like Powe, Baby and Posey who averaged 3-4 rebounds a game, but that's not really different than this year. Compare that to KG at 8.3, Pierce at 5.4, Bass at 6 and you've got the same production out of the top 3 guys. Then, Wilcox, JO and Pietrus are all in the 3-5 range. The only difference I see is that we no longer have those 3-5 guys because they are hurt, but this wasn't a good rebounding team all year.

I think there's an undeniable relationship between defensive rotations and rebounding.

Nope we were the fourth best rebounding team in the NBA in0708 and 2nd in 0809.

It's based on our aging core. Our defensive rankings have been consistently tops in the league. After Kgs injury and our wings declined we dropped into the 20s where we have stayed.

[LooseCannon]

For better or worse, Doc is going to prioritize being able to handle the Celtics style of pick and roll defense over rebounding ability.  Personnel decisions should keep this in mind.

The defensive style has little to do with our rebounding woes. We were very good at rebounding the first two years of this current core.

It's part of the explanation of why Doc likes to go small, unless you think increased use of smallball lineups have nothing to do with rebounding issues.

[Fafnir]

For better or worse, Doc is going to prioritize being able to handle the Celtics style of pick and roll defense over rebounding ability.  Personnel decisions should keep this in mind.

The defensive style has little to do with our rebounding woes. We were very good at rebounding the first two years of this current core.

It's part of the explanation of why Doc likes to go small, unless you think increased use of smallball lineups have nothing to do with rebounding issues.

We played lots of small ball with posey in 0708

Dominant rebounders don't just get their own boards they demand attention from the other team. KG isn't that guy anymore. Plus we went from Perkins to bass as his partner

[Fafnir]

I think Doc goes small to try and score typically. Though we only have two bigs he trusts so that's the biggest reason this year.

[Marqui]

What's worse, the Celtics rebounding or the Patriots pass defense?

[guava_wrench]

For better or worse, Doc is going to prioritize being able to handle the Celtics style of pick and roll defense over rebounding ability.  Personnel decisions should keep this in mind.

The defensive style has little to do with our rebounding woes. We were very good at rebounding the first two years of this current core.

That year, a younger KG averaged 9.2, our starting center (Perk) averaged 6.1. Outside of a younger Pierce averaging 5.1, nobody else was over 5 a game. There were a couple guys like Powe, Baby and Posey who averaged 3-4 rebounds a game, but that's not really different than this year. Compare that to KG at 8.3, Pierce at 5.4, Bass at 6 and you've got the same production out of the top 3 guys. Then, Wilcox, JO and Pietrus are all in the 3-5 range. The only difference I see is that we no longer have those 3-5 guys because they are hurt, but this wasn't a good rebounding team all year.

I think there's an undeniable relationship between defensive rotations and rebounding.

Individual rebounding is meaningless when talking about how well a team rebounds. You have to look at team stats.

[LB3533]

These are our team DReb% over the last 5 seasons:

This year = rank #24 in the league @ .718
Last year = rank #9 in the league @ .747
2009-2010 = rank #12 in the league @ .738
2008-2009 = rank #3 in the league @ .756
2007-2008 = rank #8 in the league @ .744

It is interesting to note that the league average for DReb% for this season is .729....but for the previous 4 seasons the league average was .733 and higher.

This indicates that there is some poorer quality basketball due to the lockout and due to the condensed schedule.

My concern is we won the Finals when our team was only +.011 above the league average for DReb%.

And we got to Game 7 in 2010 when our team was basically at league average with a +.001 "advantage" for DReb%

Last year we also had a +.011 advantage over the league average, but we got bounced in the 2nd round.


But my biggest concern is the turnovers:

When we won the chip we had a +.005 advantage in TOV%

The following season when KG got hurt we had a -.010 disadvantage.

With KG back playing we got to Game 7 and we had a +.004 advantage in TOV%.

Last year we had a +.003 advantage, but Rondo got hurt in the playoffs so that ruined that run.

This year we are basically even on the turnovers with a -.001 disadvantage.

So if you factor in our poor we are THIS SEASON for defense rebounds and you add in the combination that we do not have a positive advantage on the turnovers....that is mixture for disaster.

[rasta1]

I mean basically all of our losses come down to

1) Rebounding, especially defensive. Also unlike past years where we had guys like Powe jumping for the offensive rebound from the weakside, this year we have nobody

2)Turnovers, actually this was a problem last year as well

3) Free throws, basically as a jump shooting team we arent really making it to the line

[the_Bird]

What's worse, the Celtics rebounding or the Patriots pass defense?

Pat Chung would be one of our best rebounders.  At least he wouldn't be afraid to put a body on someone!

Actually, of all the Boston athletes in every sport, KG's the best rebounder but I bet #2 would be Rob Gronkowski.  Can you imagine that kid playing as an undersized power forward? 

[Rtpas11]

Celtics need Kris Humphries next year. NEED! Have Bass go back to the bench role with Jeff Green.

[toine83]

Humphries as a backup PF bringing energy to the 2nd unit sounds good.
Hansbrough also could be OK

[BenHenry]

I would argue that KG is a pretty good rebounder

I would argue that Pierce is a very good rebounder at his position

I would argue that Brandon Bass, Stiemsma, Hollins, Ray, Rondo, Bradley, etc...are all plenty big enough and plenty strong enough for this Celtics team to be a very solid rebounding team.

I would then argue that they have this really unusual, really frustrating aversion to actually boxing out and then rebounding the ball.

I'm 5'9" and about 185. I can keep a 6'4" 215 pound guy off the boards all night - "all" night, it is not that difficult to do.

The key thing it requires is boxing out and a mentality that you refuse to allow the guy to go around you or crawl over your back. That's it, not rocket science.

It's why Rodman could box out Shaq all night if that was his man. It's why Bird could get 18 boards on a night when McHale was out and he had to check Karl Malone.

It's mentality and mental toughness. It has very little to do with size.

I don't by that a 6'8" 240 pound guy ( Bass) can't check a 6'11" 232 pound guy (Noah). That's all BS.

Other teams shoot and we collectively turn around and look the rim - guys walk by us for boards.

Very simple - ball goes up, find the guy closest to you and lay wood on him. There's only five of them and we've got five too.

But when you don't lay a body on anyone when the ball goes up, now you're playing 8 on 5...

It's really up to the players - they need to be willing to get into a figurative fist fight on the boards. If they are willing to do that they could be one of the better rebounding teams in the league.

It's not that we "aren't" a good rebounding team, it's that our players collectively "refuse" to be a good rebounding team.      



 

TP to OP and ScoobyDoo

I remember when we lost in game 7 to the lakers we had this mentality "we dont need to rebound when we make our shots", Well what about when the opposing team arent making their shots, do we just look at the ball and let the other team get some offensive boards? I will always remember that game because the team refused to go for boards. The lakers got 23 offensive boards to our 8. That's 15 extra possessions, offensive rebounds are just as good as steals! We played better than them that game in all aspect except for offensive rebounding and they won.

Tr:dl We lost the finals because we refused to rebound.