Chris Brousard - "CP3 won't sign an extension with the c's"

[GreenFaith1819]

I say no. Don't do it. Even if NOH changes their minds and do a straight-up trade for Rondo. I know this is extreme, but the way injuries have depleted this team over the years, I'd expect Chris to injure himself before we even got any value out of him.

That is extremely pessimistic, haha

I'll keep our number 2 or 3 PG in Rondo, who I expect to continue improvement.

And that is awfully optimistic.  I don't see any world where Rondo is a top 3 PG (as long as Rose, CP, and D-Will reside in that world) and I expect Wall and possibly others to surpass Rondo in the future.

Well, no - I see it as being realistic - based off of our history over the last few years.

First off, I wish Chris Paul good health. He could very well go on and have an MVP-caliber season. That is in him.

But based off the worse-case scenario I'd have to pass here.

[Moranis]

TP Nick, dead on the money!

What worries me, though, and GreenFaith mentioned it, is CP3's knees condition. He clearly can become a "Brandon Roy 2.0", which would be a nightmare scenario for us if we were able to sign him long term. I hope Danny really gets a good look at Paul's medical condition if he ever has to pull the trigger on such a trade.

That's why you don't sign him long term until after you trade for him.  You take the 1 year of Paul, hope you win a title and with a year of your medical staff you figure out if you even want to sign him long term (maybe you just do a sign and trade and get something for him).

But see, that's the thing.

First off, I love Chris Paul as a player, and I think he'd fit in Boston. But looking at our injury history (KG's knee, Rondo's takedown by Wade, Perk's knee, Powe's injury etc) - do we still take a chance here?

I say no. Don't do it. Even if NOH changes their minds and do a straight-up trade for Rondo. I know this is extreme, but the way injuries have depleted this team over the years, I'd expect Chris to injure himself before we even got any value out of him.

And then we are left with no Rondo and no value for Chris. Ainge then would probably start rebuilding in earnest.

My thing is - let's just add some pieces and run with our current Big Four.

Just my take. Not trying to be negative, but looking at things based off of our track record here.

Injuries have taken SO MUCH from this team....it is for this reason that I'd have to pass here. I'll keep our number 2 or 3 PG in Rondo, who I expect to continue improvement.

Paul played in 80 games last year and was perfectly healthy all season long.  By the end of the season he was actually stronger and better because he knee finally went back to 100% (which is pretty common with his injury).  Rondo is the one that played 68 games and then got injured again in the playoffs, not Paul.  I'd be more concerned about Rondo getting injured then Paul as he is the one that was actually injured multiple times last year.

For me just adding pieces isn't going to be enough.  The Celtics have 3 options

1. Add some minor pieces that doesn't affect long term cap space and give it one more go with essentially the same lineup.

2. Go all in.  Do whatever it takes to win the title this year.  That may mean trading Rondo for Paul without an extension.  It may mean trading or signing players for more then 1 season.  It may mean trading draft picks.  Do whatever it takes but give the team a realistic shot at passing the Heat, Bulls, and Knicks from the East and the Lakers, Thunder, and Mavs from the West.

3. Begin rebuilding now by trading anyone and everyone to get pieces and draft picks.  

I'm in camp #2 all the way.  To me trading Rondo for Paul is a no brainer because it makes the team significantly better this year and I'd like to see one more strong run before KG, Allen, and Pierce are too old to give one more strong run (and sadly they may already be too old, but I still want to see it).

[PosImpos]

I say no. Don't do it. Even if NOH changes their minds and do a straight-up trade for Rondo. I know this is extreme, but the way injuries have depleted this team over the years, I'd expect Chris to injure himself before we even got any value out of him.

That is extremely pessimistic, haha

I'll keep our number 2 or 3 PG in Rondo, who I expect to continue improvement.

And that is awfully optimistic.  I don't see any world where Rondo is a top 3 PG (as long as Rose, CP, and D-Will reside in that world) and I expect Wall and possibly others to surpass Rondo in the future.

Well, no - I see it as being realistic - based off of our history over the last few years.

First off, I wish Chris Paul good health. He could very well go on and have an MVP-caliber season. That is in him.

But based off the worse-case scenario I'd have to pass here.

I think you have to take some big risks if you want anything better than a second round  exit again this year.  I think Danny felt that way last year, too, which is why he signed injury prone players and made the  perkins trade.

The status quo with this roster may be safer, but I dont think its likely to yield anything more exciting than a dignified farewell to the big 3 era.

[PosImpos]

TP Nick, dead on the money!

What worries me, though, and GreenFaith mentioned it, is CP3's knees condition. He clearly can become a "Brandon Roy 2.0", which would be a nightmare scenario for us if we were able to sign him long term. I hope Danny really gets a good look at Paul's medical condition if he ever has to pull the trigger on such a trade.

That's why you don't sign him long term until after you trade for him.  You take the 1 year of Paul, hope you win a title and with a year of your medical staff you figure out if you even want to sign him long term (maybe you just do a sign and trade and get something for him).

But see, that's the thing.

First off, I love Chris Paul as a player, and I think he'd fit in Boston. But looking at our injury history (KG's knee, Rondo's takedown by Wade, Perk's knee, Powe's injury etc) - do we still take a chance here?

I say no. Don't do it. Even if NOH changes their minds and do a straight-up trade for Rondo. I know this is extreme, but the way injuries have depleted this team over the years, I'd expect Chris to injure himself before we even got any value out of him.

And then we are left with no Rondo and no value for Chris. Ainge then would probably start rebuilding in earnest.

My thing is - let's just add some pieces and run with our current Big Four.

Just my take. Not trying to be negative, but looking at things based off of our track record here.

Injuries have taken SO MUCH from this team....it is for this reason that I'd have to pass here. I'll keep our number 2 or 3 PG in Rondo, who I expect to continue improvement.

Paul played in 80 games last year and was perfectly healthy all season long.  By the end of the season he was actually stronger and better because he knee finally went back to 100% (which is pretty common with his injury).  Rondo is the one that played 68 games and then got injured again in the playoffs, not Paul.  I'd be more concerned about Rondo getting injured then Paul as he is the one that was actually injured multiple times last year.

For me just adding pieces isn't going to be enough.  The Celtics have 3 options

1. Add some minor pieces that doesn't affect long term cap space and give it one more go with essentially the same lineup.

2. Go all in.  Do whatever it takes to win the title this year.  That may mean trading Rondo for Paul without an extension.  It may mean trading or signing players for more then 1 season.  It may mean trading draft picks.  Do whatever it takes but give the team a realistic shot at passing the Heat, Bulls, and Knicks from the East and the Lakers, Thunder, and Mavs from the West.

3. Begin rebuilding now by trading anyone and everyone to get pieces and draft picks. 

I'm in camp #2 all the way.  To me trading Rondo for Paul is a no brainer because it makes the team significantly better this year and I'd like to see one more strong run before KG, Allen, and Pierce are too old to give one more strong run (and sadly they may already be too old, but I still want to see it).

I think your 3 options are a very accurate description of the situation facing the celtics.  I agree that 2 or 3 make the most sense, if you take a step back and try to remove sentimentality.

[CelticsFanNC]

 I agree with much of what you said but you are still making one huge....and IMO wrong assumption.

  That assumption is that Boston has the kind of assets it is going to take to get Chris Paul from New Orleans which IMO it doesn't.  

  People need to start bracing themselves for the idea that neither Chris Paul or Dwight Howard are going to land in Boston because getting one of them would take all of our assets and then some IMO and getting two of them is almost impossible unless one of the two hit free agency which I highly doubt either will.  If you have to trade one or two of the big three's expiring contracts, along with Rondo and picks to get it done then not only are you once again falling short of being a true title contender you are also almost certainly taking on bad contracts in return which in turn would end the idea of having cap space going forward.

  Also people keep saying stuff like "Danny get it done" like he is working in a bubble where there are no other teams with better assets to make these kind of deals then the assets the Celtics currently have.  There are other teams involved and those other teams in many cases as it currently stands have better assets then the Celtics have to make the kind of deals it will take to get Paul or Howard.  If they actually hit free agency then it is a different story but I don't think they will and even if they do Boston wont be high on their list of desired destinations.

  I hate to be the one who is p---ing in everyone beer but the chances of Boston landing Paul are minimal.  The chances of them landing Howard are also minimal.  The chances of both landing in Boston are so minimal that they probably shouldn't even be discussed by rational people.

You may or may not be right.  Rondo is a 2x all-star and 2x first team all-defensive player.  He is quite the asset.  Are there better assets?  Yes, very possibly.  But are those teams willing to roll the dice on CP3 not signing an extension?  I think not, which really makes me think Boston might be the best landing spot for him.  If you do claim that there are other teams with assets that NO would prefer to Boston's, please tell me who the assets are and why that team would be willing to trade them away for potentially just one year of CP.  Boston is in a unique position were they should be willing to give up that intriguing young asset on a gamble for a championship this year.

  You don't think that there are at least a handful of teams with more young talent and better draft picks then the Celtics have?  All I can say to that is look again.  We have Rondo.  We might have Green but that is certainly not a sure thing.  Same with Davis and I highly doubt he is high on anyone's list.  That's about it for young talented assets(in 2007 we had far more in terms of young assets then we do now).  We have tons of expiring contracts over the next two seasons but if you deal them away at this point you still have to fill the holes left behind by dealing away core members of your roster.

I don't think you addressed at all what I said in my post.  Please re-read the parts I have underlined.  You say to look again.  Well I have looked, so please help me out now if it's so obvious.  Which assets are out there that these teams would be OK dealing away for one season of CP?

  LA Clippers, and he'd sign an extension there according to reports.  Why wouldn't he?  Play alongside of Blake Griffin in a media metropolis for the remainder of his career.  Chicago(they'd take a flier on Howard without an extension in place).  New Jersey(same deal, maybe not Paul but certainly Howard).  That's without even looking.  On top of having better young talent they also are in what are widely perceived to be more desirable cities. Washington has Wall and other youngsters.  Indiana has a host of young players to package.  

  Age is Boston's problem and there isn't a lot we can do about it.  Our Stars with the exception of Rondo are old so no marquee player is going to sign an extension tying them to the Celtics for the next 5 years or more based on that alone IMO  The age/mileage of the Allen and Garnett means their value is almost exclusively in their expiring contracts.  Orlando and New Orleans are going to want young players with upside, cap relief and draft picks.

 We don't have what are perceived to be young players with potential high ceilings. Rondo, Green and Davis are known commodities and only one of them will ever be a star player. Bradley might be a solid youngster if he sees the floor and shows something but that's not the case as we speak.  Our picks from the previous draft might very well be solid but no one is going to be busting down the door to get them at this point either.  Ainge had a host of youngsters of varying degrees of potential when he landed Garnett and Allen.  He doesn't have that now.

  Our best players with the exception of Rondo are too old.  Our youngsters either have shown enough that the league knows what they are or haven't shown anything at all.

  I just believe, admittedly without combing every NBA roster that there are quite a few teams that can put together a better package then Boston can at this point.  

  As for other teams willing to take a flyer on one and done, sure there probably aren't many but I don't think it will come to that.  Someone from Paul's list of desirable locations is going to put together a package New Orleans is going to bit on.

  As I said, I hope all these pipe dreams actually come to fruition and we land both Paul and Howard.   Excuse me if I don't hold my breath until it happens.

[action781]

I say no. Don't do it. Even if NOH changes their minds and do a straight-up trade for Rondo. I know this is extreme, but the way injuries have depleted this team over the years, I'd expect Chris to injure himself before we even got any value out of him.

That is extremely pessimistic, haha

I'll keep our number 2 or 3 PG in Rondo, who I expect to continue improvement.

And that is awfully optimistic.  I don't see any world where Rondo is a top 3 PG (as long as Rose, CP, and D-Will reside in that world) and I expect Wall and possibly others to surpass Rondo in the future.

Well, no - I see it as being realistic - based off of our history over the last few years.

You see it as realistic to expect a player to injure himself before we got any value out of him because of a trend that has occurred in our players who are in no way related to him?  In statistics, we say "correlation does not mean causality".  That's like expecting the stock market to rise 10% this year if the Pats win the superbowl because the last three years the Pats won the superbowl the stock market rose 10%.  Not to mention, you think this after Paul has just played an 80 game season and playoffs with no health setbacks?

This makes absolutely no sense.  Is it possible for him to get injured?  Sure, anybody can get injured.  But to expect someone to get injured in his first season here and to find that expectation "realistic" rather than pessimistic is crazy to me.

[GreenFaith1819]

Ok. I'm sold.

Moranis and action made good points here.

I'd still hate to get CP3 and know he'd be leaving us in a year. There's the chance that he could be convinced to stay, as others have noted.

We'll see.

[celticinorlando]

they need bigs...but if they sign kwmae brown i will barf...he is a bum

[action781]

 I agree with much of what you said but you are still making one huge....and IMO wrong assumption.

  That assumption is that Boston has the kind of assets it is going to take to get Chris Paul from New Orleans which IMO it doesn't.  

  People need to start bracing themselves for the idea that neither Chris Paul or Dwight Howard are going to land in Boston because getting one of them would take all of our assets and then some IMO and getting two of them is almost impossible unless one of the two hit free agency which I highly doubt either will.  If you have to trade one or two of the big three's expiring contracts, along with Rondo and picks to get it done then not only are you once again falling short of being a true title contender you are also almost certainly taking on bad contracts in return which in turn would end the idea of having cap space going forward.

  Also people keep saying stuff like "Danny get it done" like he is working in a bubble where there are no other teams with better assets to make these kind of deals then the assets the Celtics currently have.  There are other teams involved and those other teams in many cases as it currently stands have better assets then the Celtics have to make the kind of deals it will take to get Paul or Howard.  If they actually hit free agency then it is a different story but I don't think they will and even if they do Boston wont be high on their list of desired destinations.

  I hate to be the one who is p---ing in everyone beer but the chances of Boston landing Paul are minimal.  The chances of them landing Howard are also minimal.  The chances of both landing in Boston are so minimal that they probably shouldn't even be discussed by rational people.

You may or may not be right.  Rondo is a 2x all-star and 2x first team all-defensive player.  He is quite the asset.  Are there better assets?  Yes, very possibly.  But are those teams willing to roll the dice on CP3 not signing an extension?  I think not, which really makes me think Boston might be the best landing spot for him.  If you do claim that there are other teams with assets that NO would prefer to Boston's, please tell me who the assets are and why that team would be willing to trade them away for potentially just one year of CP.  Boston is in a unique position were they should be willing to give up that intriguing young asset on a gamble for a championship this year.

  You don't think that there are at least a handful of teams with more young talent and better draft picks then the Celtics have?  All I can say to that is look again.  We have Rondo.  We might have Green but that is certainly not a sure thing.  Same with Davis and I highly doubt he is high on anyone's list.  That's about it for young talented assets(in 2007 we had far more in terms of young assets then we do now).  We have tons of expiring contracts over the next two seasons but if you deal them away at this point you still have to fill the holes left behind by dealing away core members of your roster.

I don't think you addressed at all what I said in my post.  Please re-read the parts I have underlined.  You say to look again.  Well I have looked, so please help me out now if it's so obvious.  Which assets are out there that these teams would be OK dealing away for one season of CP?

  LA Clippers, and he'd sign an extension there according to reports.  Why wouldn't he?  Play alongside of Blake Griffin in a media metropolis for the remainder of his career.  Chicago(they'd take a flier on Howard without an extension in place).  New Jersey(same deal, maybe not Paul but certainly Howard).  That's without even looking.  On top of having better young talent they also are in what are widely perceived to be more desirable cities. Washington has Wall and other youngsters.  Indiana has a host of young players to package.  

  Age is Boston's problem and there isn't a lot we can do about it.  Our Stars with the exception of Rondo are old so no marquee player is going to sign an extension tying them to the Celtics for the next 5 years or more based on that alone IMO  The age/mileage of the Allen and Garnett means their value is almost exclusively in their expiring contracts.  Orlando and New Orleans are going to want young players with upside, cap relief and draft picks.

 We don't have what are perceived to be young players with potential high ceilings. Rondo, Green and Davis are known commodities and only one of them will ever be a star player. Bradley might be a solid youngster if he sees the floor and shows something but that's not the case as we speak.  Our picks from the previous draft might very well be solid but no one is going to be busting down the door to get them at this point either.  Ainge had a host of youngsters of varying degrees of potential when he landed Garnett and Allen.  He doesn't have that now.

  Our best players with the exception of Rondo are too old.  Our youngsters either have shown enough that the league knows what they are or haven't shown anything at all.

  I just believe, admittedly without combing every NBA roster that there are quite a few teams that can put together a better package then Boston can at this point.  

  As for other teams willing to take a flyer on one and done, sure there probably aren't many but I don't think it will come to that.  Someone from Paul's list of desirable locations is going to put together a package New Orleans is going to bit on.

  As I said, I hope all these pipe dreams actually come to fruition and we land both Paul and Howard.   Excuse me if I don't hold my breath until it happens.

You STILL haven't given me a single asset that can be TRADED to N.O. for Chris Paul that is better than Rondo.  You mentioned CP playing alongside Blake Griffin in LAC.  OK, so what asset does LAC trade to get Paul back there then?

You may be confusing signing and trading?  Nobody is saying that the celtics should try to sign Chris Paul.  That's not happening.  People are saying to trade for Chris Paul.  In which case, you need to trade away assets.  This is what you've stated so far:

LAC - but no mention of who to trade
Chicago - no mention of who to trade.  No way on earth they trade away Rose for Paul.
New Jersey - no mention of who to trade.  D-Will?  No way NO would make that senseless lateral trade.
Washington - you mentioned John Wall which is the only sensible thing you've mentioned.  But you're telling me that Washington would trade away John Wall for a one year flier on Chris Paul?  I disagree and I'd think that'd be an unwise move for them.
Indiana - only a mentioning of a host of young player, but I don't see any that are better than Rondo

So please tell me what assets these teams are going to trade away that makes sense to the team and to NO.

[action781]

Ok. I'm sold.

Moranis and action made good points here.

I'd still hate to get CP3 and know he'd be leaving us in a year. There's the chance that he could be convinced to stay, as others have noted.

We'll see.

Yeah, I'd hate for him to leave too.  Rebuilding isn't fun.  But all things considered I think it's the wise overall decision.

[Moranis]

 I agree with much of what you said but you are still making one huge....and IMO wrong assumption.

  That assumption is that Boston has the kind of assets it is going to take to get Chris Paul from New Orleans which IMO it doesn't.  

  People need to start bracing themselves for the idea that neither Chris Paul or Dwight Howard are going to land in Boston because getting one of them would take all of our assets and then some IMO and getting two of them is almost impossible unless one of the two hit free agency which I highly doubt either will.  If you have to trade one or two of the big three's expiring contracts, along with Rondo and picks to get it done then not only are you once again falling short of being a true title contender you are also almost certainly taking on bad contracts in return which in turn would end the idea of having cap space going forward.

  Also people keep saying stuff like "Danny get it done" like he is working in a bubble where there are no other teams with better assets to make these kind of deals then the assets the Celtics currently have.  There are other teams involved and those other teams in many cases as it currently stands have better assets then the Celtics have to make the kind of deals it will take to get Paul or Howard.  If they actually hit free agency then it is a different story but I don't think they will and even if they do Boston wont be high on their list of desired destinations.

  I hate to be the one who is p---ing in everyone beer but the chances of Boston landing Paul are minimal.  The chances of them landing Howard are also minimal.  The chances of both landing in Boston are so minimal that they probably shouldn't even be discussed by rational people.

You may or may not be right.  Rondo is a 2x all-star and 2x first team all-defensive player.  He is quite the asset.  Are there better assets?  Yes, very possibly.  But are those teams willing to roll the dice on CP3 not signing an extension?  I think not, which really makes me think Boston might be the best landing spot for him.  If you do claim that there are other teams with assets that NO would prefer to Boston's, please tell me who the assets are and why that team would be willing to trade them away for potentially just one year of CP.  Boston is in a unique position were they should be willing to give up that intriguing young asset on a gamble for a championship this year.

  You don't think that there are at least a handful of teams with more young talent and better draft picks then the Celtics have?  All I can say to that is look again.  We have Rondo.  We might have Green but that is certainly not a sure thing.  Same with Davis and I highly doubt he is high on anyone's list.  That's about it for young talented assets(in 2007 we had far more in terms of young assets then we do now).  We have tons of expiring contracts over the next two seasons but if you deal them away at this point you still have to fill the holes left behind by dealing away core members of your roster.

I don't think you addressed at all what I said in my post.  Please re-read the parts I have underlined.  You say to look again.  Well I have looked, so please help me out now if it's so obvious.  Which assets are out there that these teams would be OK dealing away for one season of CP?

  LA Clippers, and he'd sign an extension there according to reports.  Why wouldn't he?  Play alongside of Blake Griffin in a media metropolis for the remainder of his career.  Chicago(they'd take a flier on Howard without an extension in place).  New Jersey(same deal, maybe not Paul but certainly Howard).  That's without even looking.  On top of having better young talent they also are in what are widely perceived to be more desirable cities. Washington has Wall and other youngsters.  Indiana has a host of young players to package.  

  Age is Boston's problem and there isn't a lot we can do about it.  Our Stars with the exception of Rondo are old so no marquee player is going to sign an extension tying them to the Celtics for the next 5 years or more based on that alone IMO  The age/mileage of the Allen and Garnett means their value is almost exclusively in their expiring contracts.  Orlando and New Orleans are going to want young players with upside, cap relief and draft picks.

 We don't have what are perceived to be young players with potential high ceilings. Rondo, Green and Davis are known commodities and only one of them will ever be a star player. Bradley might be a solid youngster if he sees the floor and shows something but that's not the case as we speak.  Our picks from the previous draft might very well be solid but no one is going to be busting down the door to get them at this point either.  Ainge had a host of youngsters of varying degrees of potential when he landed Garnett and Allen.  He doesn't have that now.

  Our best players with the exception of Rondo are too old.  Our youngsters either have shown enough that the league knows what they are or haven't shown anything at all.

  I just believe, admittedly without combing every NBA roster that there are quite a few teams that can put together a better package then Boston can at this point.  

  As for other teams willing to take a flyer on one and done, sure there probably aren't many but I don't think it will come to that.  Someone from Paul's list of desirable locations is going to put together a package New Orleans is going to bit on.

  As I said, I hope all these pipe dreams actually come to fruition and we land both Paul and Howard.   Excuse me if I don't hold my breath until it happens.

You STILL haven't given me a single asset that can be TRADED to N.O. for Chris Paul that is better than Rondo.  You mentioned CP playing alongside Blake Griffin in LAC.  OK, so what asset does LAC trade to get Paul back there then?

You may be confusing signing and trading?  Nobody is saying that the celtics should try to sign Chris Paul.  That's not happening.  People are saying to trade for Chris Paul.  In which case, you need to trade away assets.  This is what you've stated so far:

LAC - but no mention of who to trade
Chicago - no mention of who to trade.  No way on earth they trade away Rose for Paul.
New Jersey - no mention of who to trade.  D-Will?  No way NO would make that senseless lateral trade.
Washington - you mentioned John Wall which is the only sensible thing you've mentioned.  But you're telling me that Washington would trade away John Wall for a one year flier on Chris Paul?  I disagree and I'd think that'd be an unwise move for them.
Indiana - only a mentioning of a host of young player, but I don't see any that are better than Rondo

So please tell me what assets these teams are going to trade away that makes sense to the team and to NO.

well considering New Orleans doesn't even want Rondo, I'm not sure what you are getting at.  The Celtics had to find a third team just to take Rondo because New Orleans wants lots of young players that are still on their rookie contracts.  That is why Indiana was mentioned as a third team as they have Collison, George, Hibbert, Hill, etc.  The Celtics don't have that. 

As for the Clippers they have a ton of young players with talent and potential.  I could easily see a package centered around Gordon with guys like Aminu, Bledsoe, Foye, and Jordan (in a sign and trade only) being added as necessary (the Clippers are 13 million under the cap so they don't have send back an equal salary).  Additionally the Clippers could send Kaman and take back Okafor, which cuts 2 years and 25 million from the Hornets future costs and is close to a wash on the Court this year.   

[BballTim]

If you have the chance to land Chris Paul for Rondo(with other parts also moving) you have to do it. Here's why:


1. Simply put, Chris Paul is the better overall, all-around player. Both players are so close in all aspects of their game as to be indistinguishable from the other. But Paul's ability to shoot FTs and from long range make him the better player.

2. Having the better player with this group of vets gives this team a better chance to win this year. The C's problems this year will not be defensively. Their problems, especially with older legs and players taking back ends of back-to-backs off, will be offensively and Paul will help in that regard much more than Rondo being here would.

  You really have to factor in health here. If Paul regains his explosiveness and returns to his pre-injury level of play then he's definitely the better player. If he doesn't then his playing better than Rondo was in Nov/Dec is far from a given. You can argue that Rondo might not reach that level again, but if Paul's health stays where it is then Rondo's capable of being the better player.

I hear a lot of talk about Paul's health.  A lot of citing his '11 regular season stats and the decline of them over the past few years.  Did anybody see that LAL playoff series though?  I thought he looked perfectly healthy then and he hasn't experienced any new injuries or setbacks since then.  I think the injury concerns are being overstated here.  Sometimes veteran players coast in the regular season.  We've seen it ourselves with our own players in recent years.  Regular season poor performance doesn't always equate to health issues or skill decline.  Sometimes it's just saving themselves for the time when it really matters - the playoffs.

  The Hornets were a 7th seed. Do you really coast during the season when you're in danger of not making the playoffs? And I don't know that I'd take a few games vs LA as a sign that he's regained his 07-08 form.

[CelticsFanNC]

 I agree with much of what you said but you are still making one huge....and IMO wrong assumption.

  That assumption is that Boston has the kind of assets it is going to take to get Chris Paul from New Orleans which IMO it doesn't.  

  People need to start bracing themselves for the idea that neither Chris Paul or Dwight Howard are going to land in Boston because getting one of them would take all of our assets and then some IMO and getting two of them is almost impossible unless one of the two hit free agency which I highly doubt either will.  If you have to trade one or two of the big three's expiring contracts, along with Rondo and picks to get it done then not only are you once again falling short of being a true title contender you are also almost certainly taking on bad contracts in return which in turn would end the idea of having cap space going forward.

  Also people keep saying stuff like "Danny get it done" like he is working in a bubble where there are no other teams with better assets to make these kind of deals then the assets the Celtics currently have.  There are other teams involved and those other teams in many cases as it currently stands have better assets then the Celtics have to make the kind of deals it will take to get Paul or Howard.  If they actually hit free agency then it is a different story but I don't think they will and even if they do Boston wont be high on their list of desired destinations.

  I hate to be the one who is p---ing in everyone beer but the chances of Boston landing Paul are minimal.  The chances of them landing Howard are also minimal.  The chances of both landing in Boston are so minimal that they probably shouldn't even be discussed by rational people.

You may or may not be right.  Rondo is a 2x all-star and 2x first team all-defensive player.  He is quite the asset.  Are there better assets?  Yes, very possibly.  But are those teams willing to roll the dice on CP3 not signing an extension?  I think not, which really makes me think Boston might be the best landing spot for him.  If you do claim that there are other teams with assets that NO would prefer to Boston's, please tell me who the assets are and why that team would be willing to trade them away for potentially just one year of CP.  Boston is in a unique position were they should be willing to give up that intriguing young asset on a gamble for a championship this year.

  You don't think that there are at least a handful of teams with more young talent and better draft picks then the Celtics have?  All I can say to that is look again.  We have Rondo.  We might have Green but that is certainly not a sure thing.  Same with Davis and I highly doubt he is high on anyone's list.  That's about it for young talented assets(in 2007 we had far more in terms of young assets then we do now).  We have tons of expiring contracts over the next two seasons but if you deal them away at this point you still have to fill the holes left behind by dealing away core members of your roster.

I don't think you addressed at all what I said in my post.  Please re-read the parts I have underlined.  You say to look again.  Well I have looked, so please help me out now if it's so obvious.  Which assets are out there that these teams would be OK dealing away for one season of CP?

  LA Clippers, and he'd sign an extension there according to reports.  Why wouldn't he?  Play alongside of Blake Griffin in a media metropolis for the remainder of his career.  Chicago(they'd take a flier on Howard without an extension in place).  New Jersey(same deal, maybe not Paul but certainly Howard).  That's without even looking.  On top of having better young talent they also are in what are widely perceived to be more desirable cities. Washington has Wall and other youngsters.  Indiana has a host of young players to package.  

  Age is Boston's problem and there isn't a lot we can do about it.  Our Stars with the exception of Rondo are old so no marquee player is going to sign an extension tying them to the Celtics for the next 5 years or more based on that alone IMO  The age/mileage of the Allen and Garnett means their value is almost exclusively in their expiring contracts.  Orlando and New Orleans are going to want young players with upside, cap relief and draft picks.

 We don't have what are perceived to be young players with potential high ceilings. Rondo, Green and Davis are known commodities and only one of them will ever be a star player. Bradley might be a solid youngster if he sees the floor and shows something but that's not the case as we speak.  Our picks from the previous draft might very well be solid but no one is going to be busting down the door to get them at this point either.  Ainge had a host of youngsters of varying degrees of potential when he landed Garnett and Allen.  He doesn't have that now.

  Our best players with the exception of Rondo are too old.  Our youngsters either have shown enough that the league knows what they are or haven't shown anything at all.

  I just believe, admittedly without combing every NBA roster that there are quite a few teams that can put together a better package then Boston can at this point.  

  As for other teams willing to take a flyer on one and done, sure there probably aren't many but I don't think it will come to that.  Someone from Paul's list of desirable locations is going to put together a package New Orleans is going to bit on.

  As I said, I hope all these pipe dreams actually come to fruition and we land both Paul and Howard.   Excuse me if I don't hold my breath until it happens.

You STILL haven't given me a single asset that can be TRADED to N.O. for Chris Paul that is better than Rondo.  You mentioned CP playing alongside Blake Griffin in LAC.  OK, so what asset does LAC trade to get Paul back there then?

You may be confusing signing and trading?  Nobody is saying that the celtics should try to sign Chris Paul.  That's not happening.  People are saying to trade for Chris Paul.  In which case, you need to trade away assets.  This is what you've stated so far:

LAC - but no mention of who to trade
Chicago - no mention of who to trade.  No way on earth they trade away Rose for Paul.
New Jersey - no mention of who to trade.  D-Will?  No way NO would make that senseless lateral trade.
Washington - you mentioned John Wall which is the only sensible thing you've mentioned.  But you're telling me that Washington would trade away John Wall for a one year flier on Chris Paul?  I disagree and I'd think that'd be an unwise move for them.
Indiana - only a mentioning of a host of young player, but I don't see any that are better than Rondo

So please tell me what assets these teams are going to trade away that makes sense to the team and to NO.

  They don't need to be better then Rondo individually for these teams to put together a better package deal then Boston can.  Rondo is a great asset.  An All-Star, pass first PG, with a champions pedigree who is also a defensive stud when he wants to be and is on a reasonable contract.  What else do we have though?  Glen Davis?  Please.  Jeff Green, the guy most people on here crucify and who isn't even under contract with the Celtics in the here and now?  

  Like I said before.  I'm not against trading Rondo(or anyone else for that matter) but not for a one year rental of a guy who wont be happy to be here and may or may not fit in with this group better then Rondo has proven he can.  It doesn't make sense to me.  

  Rondo is a great asset and by far the best asset we have right now.  If it were me I'm not wasting that asset on one title run that probably wont be good enough anyways due to the age of our core.

[KGs Knee]

 I agree with much of what you said but you are still making one huge....and IMO wrong assumption.

  That assumption is that Boston has the kind of assets it is going to take to get Chris Paul from New Orleans which IMO it doesn't.  

  People need to start bracing themselves for the idea that neither Chris Paul or Dwight Howard are going to land in Boston because getting one of them would take all of our assets and then some IMO and getting two of them is almost impossible unless one of the two hit free agency which I highly doubt either will.  If you have to trade one or two of the big three's expiring contracts, along with Rondo and picks to get it done then not only are you once again falling short of being a true title contender you are also almost certainly taking on bad contracts in return which in turn would end the idea of having cap space going forward.

  Also people keep saying stuff like "Danny get it done" like he is working in a bubble where there are no other teams with better assets to make these kind of deals then the assets the Celtics currently have.  There are other teams involved and those other teams in many cases as it currently stands have better assets then the Celtics have to make the kind of deals it will take to get Paul or Howard.  If they actually hit free agency then it is a different story but I don't think they will and even if they do Boston wont be high on their list of desired destinations.

  I hate to be the one who is p---ing in everyone beer but the chances of Boston landing Paul are minimal.  The chances of them landing Howard are also minimal.  The chances of both landing in Boston are so minimal that they probably shouldn't even be discussed by rational people.

You may or may not be right.  Rondo is a 2x all-star and 2x first team all-defensive player.  He is quite the asset.  Are there better assets?  Yes, very possibly.  But are those teams willing to roll the dice on CP3 not signing an extension?  I think not, which really makes me think Boston might be the best landing spot for him.  If you do claim that there are other teams with assets that NO would prefer to Boston's, please tell me who the assets are and why that team would be willing to trade them away for potentially just one year of CP.  Boston is in a unique position were they should be willing to give up that intriguing young asset on a gamble for a championship this year.

  You don't think that there are at least a handful of teams with more young talent and better draft picks then the Celtics have?  All I can say to that is look again.  We have Rondo.  We might have Green but that is certainly not a sure thing.  Same with Davis and I highly doubt he is high on anyone's list.  That's about it for young talented assets(in 2007 we had far more in terms of young assets then we do now).  We have tons of expiring contracts over the next two seasons but if you deal them away at this point you still have to fill the holes left behind by dealing away core members of your roster.

I don't think you addressed at all what I said in my post.  Please re-read the parts I have underlined.  You say to look again.  Well I have looked, so please help me out now if it's so obvious.  Which assets are out there that these teams would be OK dealing away for one season of CP?

  LA Clippers, and he'd sign an extension there according to reports.  Why wouldn't he?  Play alongside of Blake Griffin in a media metropolis for the remainder of his career.  Chicago(they'd take a flier on Howard without an extension in place).  New Jersey(same deal, maybe not Paul but certainly Howard).  That's without even looking.  On top of having better young talent they also are in what are widely perceived to be more desirable cities. Washington has Wall and other youngsters.  Indiana has a host of young players to package.  

  Age is Boston's problem and there isn't a lot we can do about it.  Our Stars with the exception of Rondo are old so no marquee player is going to sign an extension tying them to the Celtics for the next 5 years or more based on that alone IMO  The age/mileage of the Allen and Garnett means their value is almost exclusively in their expiring contracts.  Orlando and New Orleans are going to want young players with upside, cap relief and draft picks.

 We don't have what are perceived to be young players with potential high ceilings. Rondo, Green and Davis are known commodities and only one of them will ever be a star player. Bradley might be a solid youngster if he sees the floor and shows something but that's not the case as we speak.  Our picks from the previous draft might very well be solid but no one is going to be busting down the door to get them at this point either.  Ainge had a host of youngsters of varying degrees of potential when he landed Garnett and Allen.  He doesn't have that now.

  Our best players with the exception of Rondo are too old.  Our youngsters either have shown enough that the league knows what they are or haven't shown anything at all.

  I just believe, admittedly without combing every NBA roster that there are quite a few teams that can put together a better package then Boston can at this point.  

  As for other teams willing to take a flyer on one and done, sure there probably aren't many but I don't think it will come to that.  Someone from Paul's list of desirable locations is going to put together a package New Orleans is going to bit on.

  As I said, I hope all these pipe dreams actually come to fruition and we land both Paul and Howard.   Excuse me if I don't hold my breath until it happens.

You STILL haven't given me a single asset that can be TRADED to N.O. for Chris Paul that is better than Rondo.  You mentioned CP playing alongside Blake Griffin in LAC.  OK, so what asset does LAC trade to get Paul back there then?

You may be confusing signing and trading?  Nobody is saying that the celtics should try to sign Chris Paul.  That's not happening.  People are saying to trade for Chris Paul.  In which case, you need to trade away assets.  This is what you've stated so far:

LAC - but no mention of who to trade
Chicago - no mention of who to trade.  No way on earth they trade away Rose for Paul.
New Jersey - no mention of who to trade.  D-Will?  No way NO would make that senseless lateral trade.
Washington - you mentioned John Wall which is the only sensible thing you've mentioned.  But you're telling me that Washington would trade away John Wall for a one year flier on Chris Paul?  I disagree and I'd think that'd be an unwise move for them.
Indiana - only a mentioning of a host of young player, but I don't see any that are better than Rondo

So please tell me what assets these teams are going to trade away that makes sense to the team and to NO.

well considering New Orleans doesn't even want Rondo, I'm not sure what you are getting at.  The Celtics had to find a third team just to take Rondo because New Orleans wants lots of young players that are still on their rookie contracts.  That is why Indiana was mentioned as a third team as they have Collison, George, Hibbert, Hill, etc.  The Celtics don't have that. 

As for the Clippers they have a ton of young players with talent and potential.  I could easily see a package centered around Gordon with guys like Aminu, Bledsoe, Foye, and Jordan (in a sign and trade only) being added as necessary (the Clippers are 13 million under the cap so they don't have send back an equal salary).  Additionally the Clippers could send Kaman and take back Okafor, which cuts 2 years and 25 million from the Hornets future costs and is close to a wash on the Court this year.   

TP

I'm not sure why anyone woul think we could put together the best straight up package for Paul.

NO has been pretty clear they aren't interested in Rondo (I guess they could be just blowing smoke though)

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You STILL haven't given me a single asset that can be TRADED to N.O. for Chris Paul that is better than Rondo.  You mentioned CP playing alongside Blake Griffin in LAC.  OK, so what asset does LAC trade to get Paul back there then?

You may be confusing signing and trading?  Nobody is saying that the celtics should try to sign Chris Paul.  That's not happening.  People are saying to trade for Chris Paul.  In which case, you need to trade away assets.  This is what you've stated so far:

LAC - but no mention of who to trade
Chicago - no mention of who to trade.  No way on earth they trade away Rose for Paul.
New Jersey - no mention of who to trade.  D-Will?  No way NO would make that senseless lateral trade.
Washington - you mentioned John Wall which is the only sensible thing you've mentioned.  But you're telling me that Washington would trade away John Wall for a one year flier on Chris Paul?  I disagree and I'd think that'd be an unwise move for them.
Indiana - only a mentioning of a host of young player, but I don't see any that are better than Rondo

So please tell me what assets these teams are going to trade away that makes sense to the team and to NO.

well considering New Orleans doesn't even want Rondo, I'm not sure what you are getting at.  The Celtics had to find a third team just to take Rondo because New Orleans wants lots of young players that are still on their rookie contracts.  That is why Indiana was mentioned as a third team as they have Collison, George, Hibbert, Hill, etc.  The Celtics don't have that. 

As for the Clippers they have a ton of young players with talent and potential.  I could easily see a package centered around Gordon with guys like Aminu, Bledsoe, Foye, and Jordan (in a sign and trade only) being added as necessary (the Clippers are 13 million under the cap so they don't have send back an equal salary).  Additionally the Clippers could send Kaman and take back Okafor, which cuts 2 years and 25 million from the Hornets future costs and is close to a wash on the Court this year.   

Definitely Eric Gordon is a good asset.  Good young player and at a good cost.  But in 2 years, who will be the better value, him or Rondo?  Roughly equal players (edge Rondo), but I doubt Gordon is going to sign on to a contract like Rondo has now when Gordon's rookie deal is up.  And I don't see Aminu, Bledsoe, Foye, and Jordan being considerably better pieces than Jeff Green, Avery Bradley, Jajuan Johnson to swing a deal?  What chance do any players in that bunch besides Green and Jordan have of being a quality NBA starter?

You're right though, I think that a Kaman for Okafor swap could be a huge selling point in a potential deal for NO.