Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! FBB H2H League: 2012 Preseason: Constitution Up!

[The Walker Wiggle]

haha, I'm glad to hear you like my trades so much WW!

Hey, you're active and involved, definitely an asset to the league. I like having you onboard. But you also have an outside shot at having zero NBA starters - which is B-A-N-A-N-A-S - and still somehow made your team worse in this trade.

I can't agree with your perspective on this deal - that you have a bad team so can afford to make trades for poor returns.

Matt Bonner was a rotation worthy player last season, top 150, so was Nick Collison, top 200. Okay, Nate Robinson - although he had high spot start value - probably wasn't worth carrying. You dealt those guys for a mid-second rounder that you could've picked up off the waiver wire and the chance to add a player that won't help you next season.

There are better ways to lose, ask Blake or Roy  .

[The Walker Wiggle]

Ironically enough, wasn't one of the first trades this year a deal between you and Wiggle?  Involving Luke Babbitt and a #2 for a #1?

Which, ironically, you were critical of.

I can do two swaps, but I have to decide (exercise or pass) on the MK option first.  Edgar can end up with MK's pick, but MK can't end up with Edgar's.

In Fairweather's hypothetical what would be the reason not to swap MK's pick for Edgar's?

[barefacedmonk]

No deals would ever take place if Wiggle had any veto power.

[The Walker Wiggle]

No deals would ever take place if Wiggle had any veto power.

I'm the league grinch.

[barefacedmonk]

No deals would ever take place if Wiggle had any veto power.

I'm the league grinch.

There are two actually...you're one of them.

[Roy H.]

In Fairweather's hypothetical what would be the reason not to swap MK's pick for Edgar's?

The only reason I wouldn't swap with MK would be if his pick is worse than mine.  

[Gainesville Celtic]

No deals would ever take place if Wiggle had any veto power.

I'm the league grinch.

There are two actually...you're one of them.

Yeah.... quit hogging the seat!

[Gainesville Celtic]

Something I think we should clear up in advance is the web of "swap pick option" deals.  For example, Naturals can swap with Flash and Crotors.  So if (before any swaps) the pick order is:

Edgar #10
Flash #14
Naturals #18

Can Naturals exercise both swaps (swap with Flash then with Edgar) like this:

Naturals #10
Edgar #14
Flash #18

Or are they restricted to exercising one swap, like this:

Naturals #10
Flash #14
Edgar #18

?  It works out the same for Naturals, but has significant implications for the other two teams.

I can do two swaps, but I have to decide (exercise or pass) on the MK option first.  Edgar can end up with MK's pick, but MK can't end up with Edgar's.

Actually -- just to make things more confusing -- Utah/Mk can't end up with any pick because he traded it to the Gainesville Celtics

Lucky I've been tracking all 26(!) deals that involve picks and can post an updated list if ya like and/or updated pick order (based on 2011 finish)

[barefacedmonk]

Lucky I've been tracking all 26(!) deals that involve picks

Dang!! That's impressive.

[Lucky17]

Something I think we should clear up in advance is the web of "swap pick option" deals.  For example, Naturals can swap with Flash and Crotors.  So if (before any swaps) the pick order is:

Edgar #10
Flash #14
Naturals #18

Can Naturals exercise both swaps (swap with Flash then with Edgar) like this:

Naturals #10
Edgar #14
Flash #18

Or are they restricted to exercising one swap, like this:

Naturals #10
Flash #14
Edgar #18

?  It works out the same for Naturals, but has significant implications for the other two teams.

I can do two swaps, but I have to decide (exercise or pass) on the MK option first.  Edgar can end up with MK's pick, but MK can't end up with Edgar's.

Actually -- just to make things more confusing -- Utah/Mk can't end up with any pick because he traded it to the Gainesville Celtics

Lucky I've been tracking all 26(!) deals that involve picks and can post an updated list if ya like and/or updated pick order (based on 2011 finish)

[dang] impressive, and [dang] useful. Would like to have that as a public doc, if possible.

[Gainesville Celtic]

I'll make it public only if (a)the draft dodgers finish 18th with a .723 win pct AND (b) THE Walker Wiggle adds "sounds like someone's got a case of the Monday's" to his sig.

Otherwise The Naturals coveted 2nd rounder reverts to me.

 After all it's in my patented, geeky excel sheet alongside my player ranking equation

[The Walker Wiggle]

Matt Bonner was a rotation worthy player last season, top 150, so was Nick Collison, top 200. Okay, Nate Robinson - although he had high spot start value - probably wasn't worth carrying. You dealt those guys for a mid-second rounder that you could've picked up off the waiver wire and the chance to add a player that won't help you next season.

So, I failed to include Joel Przybilla, mainly because I don't know how to spell his last name. Now I'm trying to talk myself into liking the first half of your deal. Collison is more productive, a year younger, and healthier, and you'd just given up Rondo's 2nd round pick to acquire him. But you get back another late 2nd rounder in dealing him, so... if I squint I can view the trade as a free look at Joel. Except you've already said over-30 role players don't hold any value for you. Okay I give it a C-. I still give the second half of your trade an F though.

Also waiting for official confirmation from Kane on the first deal.

Another trade to announce:

Birdman trades John Salmons, Larry Sanders, Shelden Williams, and Gainesville Celtics' 2012 2nd rounder
Lucky17 trades Richard Jefferson, Francisco Garcia, and Mickael Pietrus.

And then of course, I skipped Sunday's headline. Salmons edges out Jefferson as the deal's best player and Sanders is the only player involved with any upside. But then Garcia is the rare player to offer reliable value coming off the bench...

Seemed even, until I remembered this:

Mickael Pietrus has received knee treatment from Shaolin monks.

Lucky loses. Better luck next time, chief.

[hpantazo]

haha, I'm glad to hear you like my trades so much WW!

Hey, you're active and involved, definitely an asset to the league. I like having you onboard. But you also have an outside shot at having zero NBA starters - which is B-A-N-A-N-A-S - and still somehow made your team worse in this trade.

I can't agree with your perspective on this deal - that you have a bad team so can afford to make trades for poor returns.

Matt Bonner was a rotation worthy player last season, top 150, so was Nick Collison, top 200. Okay, Nate Robinson - although he had high spot start value - probably wasn't worth carrying. You dealt those guys for a mid-second rounder that you could've picked up off the waiver wire and the chance to add a player that won't help you next season.

There are better ways to lose, ask Blake or Roy  .

Well, I'm always glad to hear other perspectives, especially yours. The way I see it though, I'm rebuilding, with three first rounders and a core of really young players, keeping Bonner and Collison for two years down the road didn't make much sense to me if I could trade them to contenders now for a pick and a young guy that may or may not work out, but since I'm waiting on the young guys I already have, I can certainly wait on Singler as well. I did put both guys on the block, and the offers I got where equivalent to what I dealt them for. I know I don't have many starters on my roster, but Bonner, Collison, and Nate were just adding to that problem.

Sure, my plan changed since I first took over the team, rebuilding wasn't my goal then, but I realized I wasn't going to be able to seriously contend with the core I had.

[Gainesville Celtic]

I'll make it public only if (a)the draft dodgers finish 18th with a .723 win pct AND (b) THE Walker Wiggle adds "sounds like someone's got a case of the Monday's" to his sig.

Otherwise The Naturals coveted 2nd rounder reverts to me.

 After all it's in my patented, geeky excel sheet alongside my player ranking equation

I'll get this put into a google doc soon (or if you wanted me to send you as XLS and/or make me an editor on the Google doc you already created...)

This is obviously based on the 2011 order of finish. Links go to the post of the trade announcment. As you can see Gainesville's & the Naturals' 2nd rounders have been swapped a total of 10 times combined!

1   Gomesfan
2   Designated Drinkers (via MMSB-14)
3   Toine's Boys (via DesDr-18)
4   Rusted Rims
5   Kwhit
6   jgod213
7   Toine's Boys
8   Rusted Rims** (6) (via Webskins-12)
9   Birdman
10   Larrybird 17
11   Toine's Boys (via Rondo-22)
12   Edgar Crotors*** (23)
13   Lucky17
14   blake
15   Ya'll Hate
16   Gainesville Celtics* (5) (via Utah-15)
17   Rusted Rims (via GC-1)
18   CKs Babytown Frolics
19   Draft Dodgers** (6)
20   The Naturals*/*** (5, 23)

21   Gomesfan
22   Webskins (via MMSB-17)
23   Kwhit (via DesDr-3, TB-4)
24   Rusted Rims
25   Kwhit
26   jgod213
27   Kwhit (via TB-2, GC-8)
28   Rondo2287 (via Webskins-10, L17-13, TB-22)
29   Birdman
30   Larrybird 17
31   Lucky17 (via Rondo-16, TB-20)
32   Edgar Crotors
33   Designated Drinkers (via Lucky-19)
34   blake
35   Designated Drinkers (via YH-11, DesD-14, MMSB-24)
36   The Naturals (via Utah-5)
37   Lucky17 (via GC-2, TB-3, DesD-17, Birdman-27)
38   CKs Babytown Frolics
39   Draft Dodgers
40   TB**** (via Nats-7, TB-9, Webskins-10, L17-21, Webskins-25, TB-26)

1. Gainesville Celtics Trade Tyrus Thomas, Corey Brewer, GC #1 pick --> Elton Brand, Drew Gooden, Randy Foye
2. Gainesville Celtics trade Kirk Hinrich, GC #2 --> Toine's Boys trade Rudy Fernandez, Eric Maynor, TB #2
3. Designated Drinkers trade Donatas Motiejunas, Joe Johnson, Nick Collison, the corpse of TJ Ford, DesDr 2nd rounder --> Toine's Boys trades Andrew Bynum, Glen Davis, Paul George, Kirk Hinrich, GC 2nd rounder
4. Toine's Boys trades Joe Johnson, DD #2 --> Kwhit send Chase Budinger, Aaron Brooks
5. Naturals send Brook Lopez, James Harden, and Ramon Sessions --> Utah Flash sends Dwight Howard, J.R. Smith, J.J. Redick, 2012 2nd rounder, and the right to swap 2012 1sts
6. Draft Dodgers send: Ray Allen --> Kane's Webskins send: Caron Butler, rookie Marcus Morris, and the right to swap 2012 1st round picks.
7. Toine's Boys send Avery Bradley and E'Twaun Moore --> Naturals send own 2012 2nd rounder
8. GC trades Dorell Wright, Randy Foye, Eric Maynor, TB #2 --> Kwhit trades Joe Johnson, Al Harrington
9. Webskins trade Semih Erden --> Toine's Boys trade Naturals 2012 2nd rounder
10. Lucky17 trades Beno Udrih, Baron Davis, Udonis Haslem --> Webskins trade Nate Robinson, Jason Kidd, Taj Gibson, own 2012 2nd rounder, and Naturals' 2012 2nd rounder
11. Designated Drinkers trade Daequan Cook and Wayne Ellington --> Yall Hate trades 2012 2nd round pick
12. Webskins trade Kemba Walker, Brandon Roy, Klay Thompson, Omer Asik, Ekpe Udoh, and 2012 1st rounder (either Webskins own or Draft Dodgers, post-swap) --> Rusted Rims trade Andrew Bogut, Francisco Garcia, Al Thornton, Jordan Hill, and Jeff Foster
13. Toine's Boys trade Kelenna Azubuike, Yi Jianlian, and Nick Collison --> Lucky17 trades Ersan Ilyasova, Kevin Seraphin, Nate Robinson, and Webskins' 2012 2nd rounder
14. MMSB trades Rondo, DeAndre Jordan, Dominique Jones, MMSB 2012 1st round pick --> Designated Drinkers trades Kyrie Irving, Michael Beasley, Tim Duncan, YH's 2012 2nd
15. Utah Flash trades Mo Williams, Luke Harangody, and 2012 1st rounder (either own or Naturals', post-swap) --> Gainesville Celtics trade Jason Richardson and Darrell Arthur
16. Toine's Boys trade David West --> Rondo2287 trades Kris Humphries and own 2012 2nd rounder
17. Designated Drinkers trade GC's 2012 2nd rounder --> Birdman trades Shaun Livingston and Dante Cunningham
18. Designated Drinkers send own 2012 first round pick --> Toine's Boys' send Marcin Gortat
19. 3-way trade (Lucky17 2nd-->DesDrinkers)
20. Lucky17 trades Nick Collison --> Toine's Boys trades Rondo2287's 2012 2nd rounder
21. Lucky17 trades Joel Przybilla, Sam Young, Tracy McGrady, and the Naturals' 2012 2nd rounder -->Webskins trade Mickael Pietrus and Francisco Garcia
22. Toine's Boys trade Rodney Stuckey and Webskins 2012 2nd rounder --> Rondo2287 trades Jerryd Bayless and own 2012 1st rounder
23. Naturals trade Delonte West --> Edgar trades right to swap 2012 1sts with Naturals (after Naturals exercise/decline right to swap 1sts with Utah Flash)

24. Designated Drinkers send Lamar Odom and Reggie Evans --> Make Me Some Bacon sends Anthony Morrow, Metta World Peace, and Yall Hate's 2012 2nd rounder
25. Toine's Boys send Nick Collison --> Webskins for Joel Przybilla and the naturals #2
26. Toine's Boys send Matt Bonner, Nate the Great, and the naturals #2(top 38 protected, ie if Roy misses the finals then I keep the pick) for Kyle Singler
**** For Naturals to get the pick, must finish in Top 2 and make the Finals.
27. Birdman trades John Salmons, Larry Sanders, Shelden Williams, and Gainesville Celtics' 2012 2nd rounder--> Lucky17 trades Richard Jefferson, Francisco Garcia, and Mickael Pietrus

[jgod213]

Well now that we know there will be a season afterall, i would like to rejoin the trade discussions.  I'm not looking for anything too groundbreaking, but some more depth at the PG position would be nice.

Jordan Farmar
Josh McRoberts
Marco Belinelli
Brandon Rush
Nicolas Batum
Trevor Ariza
Charlie Villanueva
Darko Milicic
Toney Douglas
Christian Eyenga
Landry Fields
Gerald Henderson
Xavier Henry
Serge Ibaka
Ricky Rubio
Demarcus Cousins
Jonas Valanciunas
Jordan Hamilton
Reggie Jackson

Players in red i likely won't move in any deal, though they're not "untouchable."  Players in green are those who i am most willing to involve in discussions.  Figured i'd just go with the christmas colors!

Although all offers are welcomed and considered, i'm looking for a minor deal around aquiring a PG.