Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! FBB H2H League: 2012 Preseason: Constitution Up!

[Roy H.]

Anybody looking for steals?  The Artest Formerly Known As Ron is on the block.

[Kane3387]

I didn't say I was not going to be here with the Webskins in the future. All I was saying is that I didn't know it was a keeper league and I have no idea what my life will be like a year from now. I might not have the time to put forth to effectively partake in the league in the future. In no way was I saying it's definite I won't play next season, but I can't say for sure.

I don't think the trade is bad though. Dirk is an MVP caliber player. He produces in a lot of categories and is extremely efficient. On top of that it's reasonable to think he produces at a high level for the next few years. Carter and Kidd are on the down but they have potential and could be used in other trades. Dirk can also be traded. Depends how my team is doing during the season.

I have no intention of leaving the next guy in line with a bad team if I don't play again.

[barefacedmonk]

Anybody looking for steals?  The Artest Formerly Known As Ron is on the block.

[Roy H.]

I didn't say I was not going to be here with the Webskins in the future. All I was saying is that I didn't know it was a keeper league and I have no idea what my life will be like a year from now. I might not have the time to put forth to effectively partake in the league in the future. In no way was I saying it's definite I won't play next season, but I can't say for sure.

I don't think the trade is bad though. Dirk is an MVP caliber player. He produces in a lot of categories and is extremely efficient. On top of that it's reasonable to think he produces at a high level for the next few years. Carter and Kidd are on the down but they have potential and could be used in other trades. Dirk can also be traded. Depends how my team is doing during the season.

I have no intention of leaving the next guy in line with a bad team if I don't play again.

Also, don't underrate Kidd (which I know you don't).  He's still a very good contributor in assists, threes, FT%, steals, and rebounds.

[Gainesville Celtic]

I didn't say I was not going to be here with the Webskins in the future. All I was saying is that I didn't know it was a keeper league and I have no idea what my life will be like a year from now. I might not have the time to put forth to effectively partake in the league in the future. In no way was I saying it's definite I won't play next season, but I can't say for sure.

I don't think the trade is bad though. Dirk is an MVP caliber player. He produces in a lot of categories and is extremely efficient. On top of that it's reasonable to think he produces at a high level for the next few years. Carter and Kidd are on the down but they have potential and could be used in other trades. Dirk can also be traded. Depends how my team is doing during the season.

I have no intention of leaving the next guy in line with a bad team if I don't play again.

Cool! I didn't mean to make a mountain out of a mole hill, just wanted to weigh in. I'll take you at yer word... good luck next year! I hope the Webskins finish 2nd (to the Gainesville Celtics of course  )


all that out of the way.... on its merits, I think this is an absolutely horrible trade 

Based on last year's averages alone the Dirk/Kidd/Carter vs Lopez/Parker Holiday side:

-7 points
+ 2.1 rebounds
-1.9 asst
-0.2 stl
-0.6 blocks
- 4.0 FGs
-1.8 FTs
+2.9 3pts

(these stats combine to be like giving up a Mike Bibby or Sasha Vujacic for the chance to get significanlty older)

And outside of normal +/- 5% variances from year to year, there seems to be a zero percent chance Dirk, Kidd or Carter do better than they did last year; While it's quite possible to assume Holiday and Lopez are still getting better at 20 & 22 y.o. each.

[Roy H.]

Anybody want to talk trade?  There's nothing else to do at the moment, right?

Amare Stoudemire - PF/C
Deron Williams - PG
Carlos Boozer - PF/C
Paul Pierce - SG/SF
Brook Lopez - C
Tony Parker - PG
Jrue Holiday - PG
Danilo Gallinari - SF
Jared Dudley - SG/SF
Carlos Delfino - SG/SF
Ramon Sessions - PG/SG
Ryan Anderson - PF/C
Kwame Brown - C
Wes Johnson - SG/SF
Metta World Peace - SG/SF
Brad Miller - C
Kyle Singler - SF
Justin Harper - PF

Ideally, I'd move a SG/SF for a PF/C. 

[Kane3387]

I didn't say I was not going to be here with the Webskins in the future. All I was saying is that I didn't know it was a keeper league and I have no idea what my life will be like a year from now. I might not have the time to put forth to effectively partake in the league in the future. In no way was I saying it's definite I won't play next season, but I can't say for sure.

I don't think the trade is bad though. Dirk is an MVP caliber player. He produces in a lot of categories and is extremely efficient. On top of that it's reasonable to think he produces at a high level for the next few years. Carter and Kidd are on the down but they have potential and could be used in other trades. Dirk can also be traded. Depends how my team is doing during the season.

I have no intention of leaving the next guy in line with a bad team if I don't play again.

Cool! I didn't mean to make a mountain out of a mole hill, just wanted to weigh in. I'll take you at yer word... good luck next year! I hope the Webskins finish 2nd (to the Gainesville Celtics of course  )


all that out of the way.... on its merits, I think this is an absolutely horrible trade 

Based on last year's averages alone the Dirk/Kidd/Carter vs Lopez/Parker Holiday side:

-7 points
+ 2.1 rebounds
-1.9 asst
-0.2 stl
-0.6 blocks
- 4.0 FGs
-1.8 FTs
+2.9 3pts

(these stats combine to be like giving up a Mike Bibby or Sasha Vujacic for the chance to get significanlty older)

And outside of normal +/- 5% variances from year to year, there seems to be a zero percent chance Dirk, Kidd or Carter do better than they did last year; While it's quite possible to assume Holiday and Lopez are still getting better at 20 & 22 y.o. each.

I see what you're saying but I disagree this is horrible. Dirk is a top 8 player. Like I said he gives you production in a lot of areas. Kidd does as well actually. Vince is a streaky player at this point but he's not a bad guy in the deal. I mean it's not like he's a guy who will be on waivers all year. I can't argue with the youth argument, but sacrifices are made to get a top guy. I am also not done making moves by a long run.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I knew when Kane threw his entire roster on the trading block I should've made an offer on Holiday but I was too down about the once again scuttled negotiations.

Bad, bad trade for the Webskins.

[Roy H.]

Bad, bad trade for the Webskins, now I've once again got to rip one of you off to keep up the Hobbses. You're all on notice. Chris Paul says hi.

What the people want to see is a Naturals / Dodgers trade.  That would make their heads spin.

Also, folks, watch out for Wiggle.  He's way too crafty to trade with.  

Lastly, let's give Kane some benefit of the doubt here.  He put together a tremendously strong squad in the CB Draft.  It's not like I only make good trades.  (How's David Lee + Michael Beasley for Chris Bosh working out for me these days?  People howled about that one, talked about how I had ripped off the other side, etc.  A couple years down the road, give me Lee and Beasley, please.)

[Kane3387]

Dang it. I knew when Kane threw his entire roster on the trading block I should've made a low ball offer on Holiday. But I was too down about the once again scuttled negotiations.

Bad, bad trade for the Webskins, now I've once again got to rip one of you off to keep up the Hobbses. You're all on notice. Chris Paul says hi.

Lol I'm getting killed over Jrue Holiday huh?

It's cool.

Entire roster is still on the block also. PM for offers.

[barefacedmonk]

Dang it. I knew when Kane threw his entire roster on the trading block I should've made a low ball offer on Holiday. But I was too down about the once again scuttled negotiations.

Bad, bad trade for the Webskins, now I've once again got to rip one of you off to keep up the Hobbses. You're all on notice. Chris Paul says hi.

Lol I'm getting killed over Jrue Holiday huh?

It's cool.

Entire roster is still on the block also. PM for offers.

Don't worry about what others have to say...do what you think is best for your team.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Dang it. I knew when Kane threw his entire roster on the trading block I should've made a low ball offer on Holiday. But I was too down about the once again scuttled negotiations.

Bad, bad trade for the Webskins, now I've once again got to rip one of you off to keep up the Hobbses. You're all on notice. Chris Paul says hi.

Lol I'm getting killed over Jrue Holiday huh?

It's cool.

Entire roster is still on the block also. PM for offers.

No, I'm just a big believer in Holiday. I'm not a believer in trades that necessitate further trades to balance out. In a league that starts two PGs, if you're trying to "win now" you really don't want a single starting caliber point guard on the roster, particularly not if he's 38 with strong competition behind him. And I'm a fan of Kemba's but if he struggles, as it stands, you finish in the bottom six.

By the numbers the trade is actually a wash. You lose in more categories than you gain, but large pick ups in three pointers made and free throw percentage keep it even. But when you're getting, what?, thirty-three years older you really don't want a statistical even-Steven deal. There was a reason that Roy was aggressively shopping Kidd and Carter. Maybe if you'd gotten him to package those two with one of his younger franchise players. Or better yet kept one of Holiday or Parker out of the deal.

But a fleecing by Roy Hobbs is a CB Fantasy right of passage.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Don't worry about what others have to say...do what you think is best for your team.

What, he shouldn't listen to some know-it-all who likes to talk about himself in the third person?

THE Walker Wiggle

(Which is to say, I've certainly been wrong before. Allen Iverson.)

[Kane3387]

Don't worry about what others have to say...do what you think is best for your team.

What, he shouldn't listen to some know-it-all who likes to talk about himself in the third person?

THE Walker Wiggle

(Which is to say, I've certainly been wrong before. Allen Iverson says hi.)

It's all good. And hey if it doesn't work out and I don't happen to play next year then they guy who takes my place should get one heck of a rookie lol

[The Walker Wiggle]

Lastly, let's give Kane some benefit of the doubt here.  He put together a tremendously strong squad in the CB Draft.  It's not like I only make good trades.  (How's David Lee + Michael Beasley for Chris Bosh working out for me these days?  People howled about that one, talked about how I had ripped off the other side, etc.  A couple years down the road, give me Lee and Beasley, please.)

Really, you reach back and the worst trade you can come up with is one that netted you a top 30 player, 2010-11 All-Star PF that went to the Finals?

You miss B-Easy that much, Hobbs?