Re: Lucky17's Yahoo! FBB H2H League: 2012 Preseason: Constitution Up!

[hpantazo]

Nice doing business with you, Kane.  TP(s).

I'm genuinely curious as to reactions to this one:

Jrue Holiday
Brook Lopez
Tony Parker

for

Dirk
Kidd
Carter

Obviously, I wanted to get younger.

Ummm...an absolute steal by Roy if you ask me.  Kidd and Carter are both over the hill - Dirk will be in 2 years.  I see Jrue as a top5 PG for the next decade, Lopez already is a top 5 center and Parker is still a solid PG for a few more seasons....  Where was I before this went down? 

Wow, the rich get richer! I guess we are all playing for 2nd in the H2H league.

Hmmm. I am guessing this is a keeper league? I am a one year at a time owner. So I can't guarantee I will be here next year but I can guarantee I will do all I can to win this year.

Yes. I guess the trade makes sense for you if you are looking at just this year. I hope you enjoy it enough to stick around for longer.

[Kane3387]

Thank you very much for that!


TP!

[Kane3387]

Seeing as this is a keeper league I could see where some of you might want to get younger. I am more then willing to trade prospects and young players with potential for more established veteran players. Trying to get better in the short term. Below is my roster:

Players

Brandon Roy
Willie Green
Joel Anthony
Richard Jefferson
Ekpe Udoh
Kevin Garnett
Derrick Brown
Dirk Nowitzki
Taj Gibson
Jason Kidd
Vince Carter
James Posey
Nate Robinson
Reggie Williams
Semih Erden
Caron Butler

Rookies

Kemba Walker
Klay Thompson
Marcus Morris
Tyler Honeycutt

[hpantazo]

another trade to announce: Toine's Boys trade Omer Asik to the Webskins for Reggie Williams.

[Gomesfan]

no untouchables

Andre Miller
Gilbert Arenas
Tony Allen
Josh Howard
Andris Biedrins
Ryan Gomes
Jamario Moon
Derrick Favors
Ronnie Price
Marc Gasol
Vladimir Radmanovic
LaMarcus Aldridge
Quentin Richardson
DeShawn Stevenson
Michael Redd
Ronny Turiaf
David Lee
Jimmer Fredette

[Gainesville Celtic]

Nice doing business with you, Kane.  TP(s).

I'm genuinely curious as to reactions to this one:

Jrue Holiday
Brook Lopez
Tony Parker

for

Dirk
Kidd
Carter

Obviously, I wanted to get younger.

Ummm...an absolute steal by Roy if you ask me.  Kidd and Carter are both over the hill - Dirk will be in 2 years.  I see Jrue as a top5 PG for the next decade, Lopez already is a top 5 center and Parker is still a solid PG for a few more seasons....  Where was I before this went down? 

Wow, the rich get richer! I guess we are all playing for 2nd in the H2H league.

Hmmm. I am guessing this is a keeper league? I am a one year at a time owner. So I can't guarantee I will be here next year but I can guarantee I will do all I can to win this year.

Kane -- did you not know this is a keeper league? I guess I'd really want to know if you intend to be here next year before moving forward.

I have absolutely no problem with any team taking a WIN-NOW approach, in fact I'm suprised more teams dont... but if they don't have any intention on sticking with the league, I'd question this trade.

I'm generally against trade vetoes, but if you don't intend on sticking around (and I'm *only* going off what you've said in this thread) I definitely don't want to saddle a GM who takes over for ya with a depleted roster.

[Roy H.]

Nice doing business with you, Kane.  TP(s).

I'm genuinely curious as to reactions to this one:

Jrue Holiday
Brook Lopez
Tony Parker

for

Dirk
Kidd
Carter

Obviously, I wanted to get younger.

Ummm...an absolute steal by Roy if you ask me.  Kidd and Carter are both over the hill - Dirk will be in 2 years.  I see Jrue as a top5 PG for the next decade, Lopez already is a top 5 center and Parker is still a solid PG for a few more seasons....  Where was I before this went down?  

Wow, the rich get richer! I guess we are all playing for 2nd in the H2H league.

Hmmm. I am guessing this is a keeper league? I am a one year at a time owner. So I can't guarantee I will be here next year but I can guarantee I will do all I can to win this year.

Kane -- did you not know this is a keeper league? I guess I'd really want to know if you intend to be here next year before moving forward.

I have absolutely no problem with any team taking a WIN-NOW approach, in fact I'm suprised more teams dont... but if they don't have any intention on sticking with the league, I'd question this trade.

I'm generally against trade vetoes, but if you don't intend on sticking around (and I'm *only* going off what you've said in this thread) I definitely don't want to saddle a GM who takes over for ya with a depleted roster.

I'm not sure we should start vetoing trades unless it's a true fire-sale situation.  Here are last year's ranks of the players involved:

Dirk (7)
Kidd (31)
Carter (104)

for

Holiday (41)
Lopez (46)
Parker (57)

It's not like this deal is leaving Kane with a depleted roster; it just makes him a bit older.  I guarantee that even if Kane does bail next season, a new GM would be able to trade Dirk for at least two young stars, and could probably move Kidd for a #1.  No, that package isn't as good as three stars, but there's a premium for trying to win now.

[Gainesville Celtic]

Nice doing business with you, Kane.  TP(s).

I'm genuinely curious as to reactions to this one:

Jrue Holiday
Brook Lopez
Tony Parker

for

Dirk
Kidd
Carter

Obviously, I wanted to get younger.

Ummm...an absolute steal by Roy if you ask me.  Kidd and Carter are both over the hill - Dirk will be in 2 years.  I see Jrue as a top5 PG for the next decade, Lopez already is a top 5 center and Parker is still a solid PG for a few more seasons....  Where was I before this went down? 

Wow, the rich get richer! I guess we are all playing for 2nd in the H2H league.

Hmmm. I am guessing this is a keeper league? I am a one year at a time owner. So I can't guarantee I will be here next year but I can guarantee I will do all I can to win this year.

Kane -- did you not know this is a keeper league? I guess I'd really want to know if you intend to be here next year before moving forward.

I have absolutely no problem with any team taking a WIN-NOW approach, in fact I'm suprised more teams dont... but if they don't have any intention on sticking with the league, I'd question this trade.

I'm generally against trade vetoes, but if you don't intend on sticking around (and I'm *only* going off what you've said in this thread) I definitely don't want to saddle a GM who takes over for ya with a depleted roster.

I'm not sure we should start vetoing trades unless it's a true fire-sale situation.  Here are last year's ranks of the players involved:

Dirk (7)
Kidd (31)
Carter (104)

for

Holiday (41)
Lopez (46)
Parker (57)

It's not like this deal is leaving Kane with a depleted roster; it just makes him a bit older.  I guarantee that even if Kane does bail next season, a new GM would be able to trade Dirk for at least two young stars, and could probably move Kidd for a #1.  No, that package isn't as good as three stars, but there's a premium for trying to win now.

I think we agree generally: I'm not in favor of vetoes I firmly believe that GMs should be able to manage the teams the way they want. After all who's to say they know which side of any deal will do better... My Biedrins for J-Rich deal when i took over was panned and it turned out quite nicely thank you.

But like I said, the only reason I even posted something was Kane's comments of "So I can't guarantee I will be here next year".

In a redraft league (or even a league where we keep X number of players), I'd say "hey great deal for Nats but we'll see how it plays out".

But this is a dynasty league where the team that traded away 20, 22, and 28 year-old studs to get back 32, 34, 37 year-old guys, suggested he might not be around after this season.

For that reason I'd want to have some assurance from Kane he's gonna see this deal through. It's very easy to imagine a scenario where Dirk continues to thrive but Kidd and Carter never play another NBA game (if we lose this season). Does Kane throw in the towel with a radically depleted roster?

[Rondo2287]

I can vouch for the fact that Roy did not do this trading thinking he was getting a steal.  He Pm'd me right after asking what I think and lamenting the loss of Dirk.  Roy does not give up his big stars lightly. 

I will say though that if Kane does not think he will be here next year we may want to try and find somebody that can pick up the team long term. 

[Roy H.]

I can vouch for the fact that Roy did not do this trading thinking he was getting a steal.  He Pm'd me right after asking what I think and lamenting the loss of Dirk.  Roy does not give up his big stars lightly. 

Wade (and parts) for Dirk + Pierce...  Dirk (and parts) for Holiday, Lopez, and Parker.  So, that's basically Wade for four star-quality guys.  And yet, part of me still wishes I had Wade.

It's hard letting go of guys like that.

[mkogav]

Nice doing business with you, Kane.  TP(s).

I'm genuinely curious as to reactions to this one:

Jrue Holiday
Brook Lopez
Tony Parker

for

Dirk
Kidd
Carter

Obviously, I wanted to get younger.

Ummm...an absolute steal by Roy if you ask me.  Kidd and Carter are both over the hill - Dirk will be in 2 years.  I see Jrue as a top5 PG for the next decade, Lopez already is a top 5 center and Parker is still a solid PG for a few more seasons....  Where was I before this went down? 

I am sooooooooooooooo bummed!!!!! I had a deal that I was working on with Kane (Saturday night), but I lost power!!!!!!! I just got back on 

Oh well, what r u going o do, right?

I have no problem with the deal. The value is fair. Kane received good players in return for his. Sure they are a lot older, but if he feels he will be able to complete with them then that's fine. If he falls out of the race, he can always flip them to a contender. There are always more trades to make.

On the point that the rest of us are playing for 2nd place, I don't believe it. Although Roy has the most talented team in the league, that is no assurance that he will win.

He had a better team than I did two seasons ago and lost.

He had an equal or slightly better team than WW 3 seasons ago and lost.

There is a lot that can happen between now and the end of the season.... oh wait. That's right, there is no season.

Sigh.

Mk

[Gainesville Celtic]

I can vouch for the fact that Roy did not do this trading thinking he was getting a steal.  He Pm'd me right after asking what I think and lamenting the loss of Dirk.  Roy does not give up his big stars lightly.  

I will say though that if Kane does not think he will be here next year we may want to try and find somebody that can pick up the team long term.  

I want to be clear this has nothing to do with Roy. I'd raise these concerns if it was the 2 last place teams. IMO, it's nothing more than a great trade for him. If he offered it, it was the right move. If Kane offered it, Roy was smart to accept. Roy has no obligation to ask the other GM "Are you sure?"

As I said, my *ONLY* concern is with Kane suggesting that he might not be around to see this deal through which is only an issue in a dynasty league like ours.

I can vouch for the fact that Roy did not do this trading thinking he was getting a steal.  He Pm'd me right after asking what I think and lamenting the loss of Dirk.  Roy does not give up his big stars lightly.  

Wade (and parts) for Dirk + Pierce...  Dirk (and parts) for Holiday, Lopez, and Parker.  So, that's basically Wade for four star-quality guys.  And yet, part of me still wishes I had Wade.

It's hard letting go of guys like that.

Again if you'd dealt Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Chalmers and Haslem for Dirk then turned around a did this deal, I'd have no issue with it. I don't think I or anyone else should be the "trade value arbitrator". IMO it's only an issue b/c of Kane's comments.

We've seen this be an issue in the Celticsblog draft when a (new) GM makes a huge deal, has buyers remorse, then bails on the CBDraft. Its why we can't deal 1st rounders anymore IIRC. I'm not saying Kane *will* bail, he just said he can't guarantee he'll be around next year. Sure none of us know what the future holds, but I'm having my first kid in 90+ days and I'll go ahead and guarantee I'll be around next year.

It appears I may be the only one concerned with Kane's comments... if so that's cool. It's certainly not the end of the world.

[Roy H.]

On the point that the rest of us are playing for 2nd place, I don't believe it. Although Roy has the most talented team in the league, that is no assurance that he will win.

No doubt about that one.  I've never seen a fantasy team that has completely run the table.  All it takes is one bad / injury-riddled weak for *any* team to lose.

[ChampKind]

Again if you'd dealt Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Chalmers and Haslem for Dirk then turned around a did this deal, I'd have no issue with it. I don't think I or anyone else should be the "trade value arbitrator". IMO it's only an issue b/c of Kane's comments.

We've seen this be an issue in the Celticsblog draft when a (new) GM makes a huge deal, has buyers remorse, then bails on the CBDraft. Its why we can't deal 1st rounders anymore IIRC. I'm not saying Kane *will* bail, he just said he can't guarantee he'll be around next year. Sure none of us know what the future holds, but I'm having my first kid in 90+ days and I'll go ahead and guarantee I'll be around next year.

It appears I may be the only one concerned with Kane's comments... if so that's cool. It's certainly not the end of the world.

Nah, I can appreciate your concern. Knowing about the keeper league is a big factor in trades, so hopefully this won't come up again. This league is a pretty solid commitment (not in a bad way, mind you, but it thrives because of the guys who check their lineups once a week and have been here since 2006ish), so having guys come in for one year and then leaving could be a concern.

That said, Kane's been pretty diligent about trades and participation, so unless he burns out completely, I see him being a pretty good candidate to stick around. But, maybe we try to figure out some kind of detriment for dropping out and leaving a husk of a team of Lucky to try and find someone to take over for.

[Roy H.]

But, maybe we try to figure out some kind of detriment for dropping out and leaving a husk of a team of Lucky to try and find someone to take over for.

I don't know if there's any way you could punish GMs that left.  However, I'd be in favor of at least discussing supplemental draft choices if a team really did conduct a fire sale, then bailed on the league.