CB DRAFT FINALS THREAD: Sixers Win!!!!!!!

[Roy H.]

You've been a fabulous Commish, IP.  I think it should be your job for life.

[Redz]

You've been a fabulous Commish, IP.  I think it should be your job for life.

Yes.  Yes.  The white smoke is coming out the chimney.

IP is officially Pope of The CB Draft.

[wdleehi]

I didn't want to use this as collateral while votes were still being cast, and it looks like I've got few (but loyal) supporters, but hey, im gona say it now:

If I win, and Lowry and Harden both dont improve on their averages from last season, and Williams is an abject failure, I will not only be commish again (this is a task you refuse if you can as a mod...because it kinda sucks), I will abstain from being a GM again next year. That is how confident I am in my guys.

You have given me something to root for.


If there is a lockout, does it count?  I mean Lowry and Harden will not improve.  And it sucks to be a rookie that can't get his first contract.

[indeedproceed]

You've been a fabulous Commish, IP.  I think it should be your job for life.

Lol....I'm gonnna need you to write an excuse to my fiancé and employer then. Neither one has been a fan of this.

[Redz]

I didn't want to use this as collateral while votes were still being cast, and it looks like I've got few (but loyal) supporters, but hey, im gona say it now:

If I win, and Lowry and Harden both dont improve on their averages from last season, and Williams is an abject failure, I will not only be commish again (this is a task you refuse if you can as a mod...because it kinda sucks), I will abstain from being a GM again next year. That is how confident I am in my guys.

You have given me something to root for.


If there is a lockout, does it count?  I mean Lowry and Harden will not improve.  And it sucks to be a rookie that can't get his first contract.

Talk about a hedged bet 

Does it count if their numbers go up while playing in the Slovenian League this year?

[indeedproceed]

Also, note that the first three responses where from mods hoping not to be commish again. Understand that my wager is not a light one

[Roy H.]

You've been a fabulous Commish, IP.  I think it should be your job for life.

Lol....I'm gonnna need you to write an excuse to my fiancé and employer then. Neither one has been a fan of this.

Did you at least get them to vote?  If I see a ballot from "IP'sMASTER", I'll know it was the fiancee'.

[nickagneta]

Kings voted for Philly

I thought 6 games

Rondo said 5

I have to say I really like IP's team, I honestly do but I have never understood the love the Bogut/Amare pairing has gotten since the moment it was put together. To think it made the finals, is kind of astounding given that the rest of the team has nearly no deep playoff experience. I think Dwyane Wade's right leg has more experience deep in the playoffs than the entire Portland team other than Amare.

Really what is so special with that match?

Amare is so very very one dimensional. He scores. But at 6'11", long and athletic you would figure the man could accidentally get more than 8 rebounds per game or accidentally have a rebounding percentage above 12% which is really really bad for a player his size with his length and athleticism.

He also is just completely disinterested in the concept of passing or playing defense. And his desire to pass gets even worse in the playoffs. This is a guy who has played in 56 playoff games, has logged over 2000 playoff minutes and has a total of....get ready for this....58 ASSISTS in his ENTIRE playoff career.

Why is that pairing so special especially given what Bogut is. Is he a top 5 center? Sure. Does that say more about his skill or the quality of the center position in the NBA? Take Bogut and but him in the 70's, 80's or 90's and he wouldn't even be a top 12 center in the league.

He's got good low post moves but is a reluctant scorer. He can rebound and block shots, but if the league had elite centers offensively like it did in the eras past, he would be exposed.

I think the pairing is good but I have never understood the absolute adoration and fawning that others besides IP have had over the pair. Two player pairings that I think are better than those in this league

Wade/Iguodala
Wade/West
Rose/Allen
Kobe/Rondo
Lebron/Matthews
Lebron/Billups
Parker/Randolph
Randolph/Gasol
Granger/Aldridge
Gasol/Griffin
Westbrook/Boozer
Bosh/Johnson
Garnett/Pierce
Manu/Bynum
Odom/Bynum

Some of these pairing got as much love as the Amare/Bogut pairing but others were criticized or just completely ignored. And as Roy has pointed out and as I did yesterday take Amare and Bogut of that team and what do you have:

Lowry/Sessions/Mills
Harden/Morrow/Henderson
Delfino/Williams
Tolliver/Jerebko
Lopez

Sorry people but that team without Amare and Bogut is worse than the real life New Jersey Nets, Cleveland Cavaliers and Minnesota TWolves.

Add Lebron and Wade to that team and that team still isn't as good as the real life Heat.

But IP didn't add Wade and LeBron he added Bogut and Amare and yet people are still saying this is the best team in this CB Draft?

I don't get it.

[nickagneta]

I didn't want to use this as collateral while votes were still being cast, and it looks like I've got few (but loyal) supporters, but hey, im gona say it now:

If I win, and Lowry and Harden both dont improve on their averages from last season, and Williams is an abject failure, I will not only be commish again (this is a task you refuse if you can as a mod...because it kinda sucks), I will abstain from being a GM again next year. That is how confident I am in my guys.

It's a really really good thing you didn't write this last year about Jennings, Miller and Ilyasova huh?

You wouldn't have been playing this year. 

[Kane3387]

Eh...  I wonder how much people are voting the GM here, rather than the team.  There's no doubt IP is a great guy, and hey, if folks want to give him the lifetime achievement award, I'll pat him on the back and say that he deserves it.  mgent has been a bit prickly in these debates, and I understand if people don't warm up to him the same way the do a beloved member of the mod staff and this year's commissioner.

However, there's simply no way in my mind that a team of Varejao/West/Iggy/Wade/Hinrich/Kmart/Barbosa loses to Bogut/Amare/Delfino/Harden/Lowry/Williams/Sessions.  Philly has a better defense, much more experience, much more depth, more talent, and a better superstar.

IP is a better arguer than mgent, I think, and some might think he's a nicer guy.  I admire him greatly, and am rooting for him, despite voting against him.  However, there's simply no way his team is better.  

That's completely unfair, and unfounded, and honestly, it seems to me anyways, that the only votes cast have been against my team, not for it.

"IP's a great guy and everything, but his team is really crappy and you shouldn't vote for him?"

Come on man, just say you don't think my team could win and leave it at that. I've worked too hard on this to be dismissed as a [dang] lifetime achievement award. That's a complete low-blow.  

It's not meant as a low blow, and I've paid homage to your team many times.  In fact, I voted it into the Finals.  However, I think Philly is far and away better.  

When I see people start to discount D. Wade, though, it's crazy to me.  It's like some are stretching for ways to criticize Philly and/or to elevate Portland.  I think we're all susceptible to subtle biases, and like Fafnir suggested earlier, mgent's fairly abrasive manner of arguing probably turned some people off.  The same can probably be said of my arguments, but I call things as I see them.  The way I see it in this series, there's nobody to check Wade, and until people quit sweeping that under the rug, I'm going to wonder what the heck's going on.

If people want to articulate why Wade is going to be ineffective in this series, I may change my mind.  However, Wade has been dominating in two NBA Finals, he's been dominating against the best defense in the NBA, he's been dominant against Harden, dominant against Lowry, and dominant against Delfino.  Amare and Bogut aren't going to matter, because the Blazers' relatively weak defense on Wade is going to result in those guys spending 10 - 15 minutes per night on the bench. 

There wasn't anyone to check Pierce. There wasn't anyone to check LBJ who dominated the ECF last year by destroying Deng and shutting down Rose at the end of games. I don't see how because Wade was great  in last year's finals, it makes him better then LBJ was in last year's ECF...

If Portland is good enough to beat the Kings then I think they are good enough to beat the Sixers with no defensive anchor and a 31 year old PF who is going up against the best athlete at his position. If Amare can kill Boozer (better then West) and KG (much better defender and similar offensively) then Why would he not dominate either of Varejao or West or K MArt?

Then throw in Bogut who must have made a great impact in the Kings series deterring Lebron because no one on the perimeter for Portland could keep him from going to the basket. LBJ is the best player in the NBA at attacking the basket. If Bogut was good enough to make a difference there then he will be against Wade as well imo.  

Here's the thing Kane. People who voted Portland last series voted anti-Lebron not pro Portland. They voted Lebron crumbling under the pressure not Bogut or Delfino stopping LeBron. They voted LeBron stopping LeBron and I challenge any person who voted Portland last series to say different(except IP that is).

For the record I did vote Kings. I didn't buy the whole LBJ crumbles thing for next year. I truly think he redeems himself next year even though I dislike him for non-basketball reasons.

[Kane3387]

I didn't want to use this as collateral while votes were still being cast, and it looks like I've got few (but loyal) supporters, but hey, im gona say it now:

If I win, and Lowry and Harden both dont improve on their averages from last season, and Williams is an abject failure, I will not only be commish again (this is a task you refuse if you can as a mod...because it kinda sucks), I will abstain from being a GM again next year. That is how confident I am in my guys.

It's a really really good thing you didn't write this last year about Jennings, Miller and Ilyasova huh?

You wouldn't have been playing this year. 

IP you can be commish. (that's punishment enough from all the work it requires of you. But you better be a GM next year so I can get redemption; otherwise I am not sure I want to play next year.

[indeedproceed]

Lol.....it's more like 'THE GIRL WHO DOESN'T GET WHY MY FUTURE HUSBAND WASTES ALL HIS TIME IN THIS STUPID CONTEST'

Also nick, this has been a pretty evident disagreement between the two of us, but here goes:

1) I love Amare/Bogut because they compliment each other. One is the best scoring PF in basketball, the other is the second best(in my mind) center in basketball, whose value is predicated on his well rounded but unselfish offensive game, and above alll his elite defensive presense. They complement each others' strengths, and cover each others' weaknesses, without clashing chemistry wise, or becoming redundant.

2) you think I really overrated Lowry and Harden, and I think you really underrated Lowry and Harden. In reality, or at least most likely, we are probably both wrong.

3) I think a Derrick Williams has all-star potential. If my team were eligible for TOTF, I think I should've won it without opposition. When I selected him, and I was discussing it with Roy and Fafnir and I believe you, I think what I kept on saying was 'Im supposed to be the GM of a team. This is the best move for the team'. But, that said, just because I see my team as nigh on unstoppable in any context in 2 yrs, it does not preclude them from being really, really good in the immediate. This is an 'I told you so' that's gonna take a while to mature, but I'm confident in it.

[indeedproceed]

Also voting has til 12:45 to conclude. Get em in now folks.

[Roy H.]

Congrats to both IP and mgent, no matter which way this turns out.

I'll be curious to see if we got any front page votes; we certainly didn't get any front page participation, but we did get lots of guests checking things out.

[mgent]

Lowry/Sessions/Mills
Harden/Morrow/Henderson
Delfino/Williams
Tolliver/Jerebko
Lopez

LOL!!!